JoeSchmoe Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago (edited) Cozens and Quinn get all the attention, but Byram is the worst player on the team right now. He has the LEAST % of defensive zone starts and has the 3rd MOST % offensive zone starts among D (5 on 5). Everything is aligned in his favour. His relative expected goals is -15.2% (how good we are when he's on the ice vs when he's off the ice with 0% being team average). That's a fair bit worse than all of our much maligned 2nd line. Worse yet, we gave up our top scorer last year to get him. We'd for sure be better off with Bryson, Johnson, or Clague (I'm not sure on Gilbert). Edited 3 hours ago by JoeSchmoe 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago (edited) 14 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said: Byram is the worst player on the team right now. .... and Power hasn't been much better. I said the Byram Power pair was a mistake in camp and I'm not surprised that it failed miserably. When Cozens, Power, Byram and Quinn are your worst players, your team is in trouble. Paying Power and Cozen 15 mill and Byram and Quinn is a huge problem for this team as they are central players to Adams rebuild. Quinn and Byram, two other high draft picks, are at least playing their way into cheaper contracts. To bad Casey only has 13 points (6 goals) in 10 games. No way the Sabres could use a player like that. Edited 5 hours ago by GASabresIUFAN 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago Beings an anchor is a good thing. Provides stability and support. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruff Around The Edges Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago The Byram for Mitts deal should get Adams fired. No questions asked. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 9 minutes ago, inkman said: Beings an anchor is a good thing. Provides stability and support. I legit thought the OP was going to have a totally different tone. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 10 minutes ago, inkman said: Beings an anchor is a good thing. Provides stability and support. It can also keep a ship from moving forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmoe Posted 3 hours ago Author Report Share Posted 3 hours ago I edited the topic to eliminate confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago I never looked at the numbers this deeply, but from watching the games, my opinion was he is the 2nd or 3rd best guy on this team. Ability in the offensive zone he seems tied for 2nd with Power. He seems to me to be pretty reliable with defensive zone exits (pass or skating out). yeah, I will admit he isn't a exactly a bear getting the puck out of corners or cleaning out the front of the net, but I've been decently satisfied with how he plays. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorcus Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 2 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said: Cozens and Quinn get all the attention, but Byram is the worst player on the team right now. He has the LEAST % of defensive zone starts and has the 3rd MOST % offensive zone starts among D (5 on 5). Everything is aligned in his favour. His relative expected goals is -15.2% (how good we are when he's on the ice vs when he's off the ice with 0% being team average). That's a fair bit worse than all of our much maligned 2nd line. Worse yet, we gave up our top scorer last year to get him. We'd for sure be better off with Bryson, Johnson, or Clague (I'm not sure on Gilbert). When did you take this snapshot? I went over to money puck and see the following for Byram? On ice expected goals 48.5% Off ice expected goals 51.3% Relative expected goals -2.8% This is third on the team behind Dahlin and Joki at the moment. I can't say I have noticed terrible play out of Byram and like his speed getting pucks out of the zone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago The “#1” is a bit much and unnecessary, … cuz he’s not. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 21 minutes ago, Jorcus said: When did you take this snapshot? I went over to money puck and see the following for Byram? On ice expected goals 48.5% Off ice expected goals 51.3% Relative expected goals -2.8% This is third on the team behind Dahlin and Joki at the moment. I can't say I have noticed terrible play out of Byram and like his speed getting pucks out of the zone. This would also match my eye test much more. He’s been one of best defenseman every game 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 30 minutes ago, Jorcus said: When did you take this snapshot? I went over to money puck and see the following for Byram? On ice expected goals 48.5% Off ice expected goals 51.3% Relative expected goals -2.8% This is third on the team behind Dahlin and Joki at the moment. I can't say I have noticed terrible play out of Byram and like his speed getting pucks out of the zone. You're comparing 5v5 to all situations. At 5v5 he's -15.2 but in all situations he's -2.8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorcus Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: You're comparing 5v5 to all situations. At 5v5 he's -15.2 but in all situations he's -2.8 Thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmoe Posted 1 hour ago Author Report Share Posted 1 hour ago (edited) 1 hour ago, Jorcus said: When did you take this snapshot? I went over to money puck and see the following for Byram? On ice expected goals 48.5% Off ice expected goals 51.3% Relative expected goals -2.8% This is third on the team behind Dahlin and Joki at the moment. I can't say I have noticed terrible play out of Byram and like his speed getting pucks out of the zone. You can't look at all situations because if one guy plays on the power play more (Byram) and another plays on the penalty kill more (Samuelson) then you're comparing apples to oranges. Of course you're going to get more expected goals on the PP vs PK. EDIT- just to elaborate some more, advanced stats almost exclusively look at 5 on 5 to take out this major difference. If keen GM were to say though, this guy kinda sucked 5 on 5 expected goal wise but is deadly on the PP, we might be able to mine this undervalued talent for less than market value. Edit 2- On the surface Malenstyn and Aube-Kubel were advanced stats nightmares. But it looks like Adams did his homework and found they had an unprecedented level of defensive assignment last year. Taking that into account, it seems he made a concerted effort to get both of them. Small sample size, but I've really liked A-K and Malenstyn has been okay too. Edited 1 hour ago by JoeSchmoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmoe Posted 1 hour ago Author Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 31 minutes ago, #freejame said: This would also match my eye test much more. He’s been one of best defenseman every game I'm not sure what you've been watching but his decision making and positioning is terrible. I've said this before in other threads but Byram was also a negative expected goal player (not relative but absolute) on Colorado which is really hard to do on a team that good, unless you're ONLY getting the really tough matchups. Byram was not that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7+6=13 Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago Hey look, it's another bash a Sabres player thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmoe Posted 54 minutes ago Author Report Share Posted 54 minutes ago 17 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said: Hey look, it's another bash a Sabres player thread. You want it... You got it! Acquiring him for Mittelstadt was Adams' worst, yet least scrutinized trade. Everyone just assumed he was a #3 D and there was almost nothing in his playing history to support it (just an uptick during CO's cup run and his 2019 4th OA pick). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7+6=13 Posted 36 minutes ago Report Share Posted 36 minutes ago 17 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said: You want it... You got it! Acquiring him for Mittelstadt was Adams' worst, yet least scrutinized trade. Everyone just assumed he was a #3 D and there was almost nothing in his playing history to support it (just an uptick during CO's cup run and his 2019 4th OA pick). What about Pegula? Can we blame him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted 36 minutes ago Report Share Posted 36 minutes ago 4 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said: Cozens and Quinn get all the attention, but Byram is the worst player on the team right now. He has the LEAST % of defensive zone starts and has the 3rd MOST % offensive zone starts among D (5 on 5). Everything is aligned in his favour. His relative expected goals is -15.2% (how good we are when he's on the ice vs when he's off the ice with 0% being team average). That's a fair bit worse than all of our much maligned 2nd line. Worse yet, we gave up our top scorer last year to get him. We'd for sure be better off with Bryson, Johnson, or Clague (I'm not sure on Gilbert). I appreciate you pulling out the fancy stats. I’m starting to get the hang of them. By watching the games I have not warmed up to Byram yet, mostly because I didn’t like the trade. It can’t see that it improved the team at the time. He seems to be playing better now than your data indicates. But certainly nothing special for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES 0311 Posted 6 minutes ago Report Share Posted 6 minutes ago 4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: .... and Power hasn't been much better. I said the Byram Power pair was a mistake in camp and I'm not surprised that it failed miserably. When Cozens, Power, Byram and Quinn are your worst players, your team is in trouble. Paying Power and Cozen 15 mill and Byram and Quinn is a huge problem for this team as they are central players to Adams rebuild. Quinn and Byram, two other high draft picks, are at least playing their way into cheaper contracts. To bad Casey only has 13 points (6 goals) in 10 games. No way the Sabres could use a player like that. Don’t disagree with your points. Not sure if Mitts would have the same production if he was still on this team. He’d be with failing Quinn and inexperienced Kulich/Benson. He’d definitely have more production than Cozens though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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