What has happened to Rasmus Dahlin?

[SwampD]

6 minutes ago, Idemo Buffalo said:

lol.  Dahlin is the best player on the Sabres, by a mile. 

He has the most talent, if that's what you mean.

Not sure if he is the best player right now, though.

 

[inkman]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Who is the best defenseman on the Sabres if not Dahlin?   

Power, Byram, and Jokijarju have all been better.  

[Pimlach]

17 minutes ago, #freejame said:

I’m confused what you can’t believe. If Dahlin is hurt then it makes sense why Byram has been more solid. If it’s the trade part, then I’m more confused because I’m not sure how any GM would take one season of Byram better than Dahlin over their career body of work. It wouldn’t surprise me if Dahlin is our best dman at the end of the season, but that’s not how I read your question. Could be on me. 

Well Byram's contract is up after the season so he could get moved if he is asking for big $$ or if we are not in it at the deadline, but it sounded like you are thinking of resigning Byram and eventually trading Dahlin?  I have always been skeptical of the Byram trade and how we fit him into the payroll given the big dollars already allocated to defense.  

Back to the subject of Dahlin, it just seems weird to be talking about trading the guy they gave a big contract to, and then handed a C.  

 

[#freejame]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Well Byram's contract is up after the season so he could get moved if he is asking for big $$ or if we are not in it at the deadline, but it sounded like you are thinking of resigning Byram and eventually trading Dahlin?  I have always been skeptical of the Byram trade and how we fit him into the payroll given the big dollars already allocated to defense.  

Back to the subject of Dahlin, it just seems weird to be talking about trading the guy they gave a big contract to, and then handed a C.  

 

No, not at all. I’m saying that while Byram is playing better now, it would take years of sustained play for his trade value to be higher than Dahlins in the opinion of NHL GMs. I don’t think either should be traded, their respective trade values is just how I’m measuring “best.”

[bob_sauve28]

7 minutes ago, inkman said:

Power, Byram, and Jokijarju have all been better.  

I can’t disagree with this 

[LTS]

If its a sports hernia there are multiple cases that I can recall where players attempted to play through it only to end up having surgery.  It's possible he's trying to play through it.

Either way, I believe he's injured and not because it couldn't be another reason.  He just looks like he's not able to play the way he wants, even physically along the boards, etc.

That said.. he's not being effective and I think it hurts the team.  But we know that somehow people believe a top player at 75% is somehow better than a lower player at 100%.  I don't buy it, but we see it all the time.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

If he has an injury, it may be BECAUSE this is a 'playoffs or bust' season that they keep playing him those minutes:

1.) They may think Dahlin at 85% is still better than most other guys who are playing at 95%-100%

2.) The injury he has may not heal any better with less minutes, maybe its one of those things that the only way to get him back to 100% is to not play him at all. He would need to rest for 2-3 weeks (no play, no practice) to not re-aggravate what he has (as many of us know with many strains and pulls, that is how it works)

3.) if #2 above IS true, then it takes you back to #1.

 

Except the on ice evidence shows that an 85% Dahlin is not better than current Joki, Byram, and arguably Power. 

[mjd1001]

12 minutes ago, Weave said:

Except the on ice evidence shows that an 85% Dahlin is not better than current Joki, Byram, and arguably Power. 

Evidence? What evidence though?

I will agree 100% that he is not playing well compared to what he expect from him.  But if one watched the game with a blind eye to the jersey numbers and names on the back, I don't think the 'eye test' would show him to be any worse than those other guys.  Yeah, he is SUPPOSED to be a lot BETTER and he's not, but I can't point out anything he does in the same situations as the other guys where he is consistently and obviously worse.

If it was an injury I'd be all for sitting him for a few games, a few weeks even, rather than dealing with this version of him for the next few months. But if he is hurting the team, I think it is because he isn't 'himself', not because he is worse than anyone and everyone else.

Edited October 21 by mjd1001

[Skibum]

Giving Dahlin the C kind of reminds me of when Darcy went all in to build the team around Thomas Vanek. Both players are loaded with skill, but neither is the bona fide badass that can carry a hockey team to greatness on their shoulders. 

[mjd1001]

I still don't totally understand how being named a captain should have a major impact on how well someone plays. I think its a bigger thing with the fans than it is with the players.

I'm guessing in any locker room in the NHL, the leaders are the leaders, the followers and the followers, the quiet guys are quiet and the outspoken guys are outspoken, no matter who 'officially' has the 'c'.

If you were traded to the Maple leafs last year mid season and walked into that room, Tavares had the "C" but it was pretty much Matthew's locker room and his team.  I think its always been like that. There are former players who talk about the Oilers in the 80's and say "Gretzky may have worn the 'C', but it was Messier's team and his locker room.'

I'm sure it matters to some players, others don't give a ****. But even to the players that it matters, I think its much more of a 'ceremonial' honor they can 'put on their resume' and brag about jokingly to teammates in the offseason.  It shouldn't, and I don't think, changes much in practice or on the ice.

If Lindy Ruff came in as a new coach an Dahlin was the highest paid and best player on the team and was NOT the captain, I don't think that new coach treats you any differently or gives your more or less responsibility if you did have the "C".

Edited October 21 by mjd1001

[That Aud Smell]

i totally forgot about the preseason injury.

dude's gotta be hurt. he doesn't look right.

not sure if it was mentioned upthread, but it also provides context for him fighting krebs in practice. he's frustrated.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

Power, Byram, and Jokijarju have all been better.  

Since none of those 3 have been good or even decent so far this season, it’s really telling how bad Dahlin’s been.

[Idemo Buffalo]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

He has the most talent, if that's what you mean.

Not sure if he is the best player right now, though.

 

True, when he is when healthy.  He got injured and has been playing through it.  Schedule gets much better now. Sabres getting plenty of days between games over the next four games. Tues, Sat, Mon, Fri. Last weeks 3 games in 4 days did not help.

[DarthEbriate]

This is just GM Sheevyn playing 4D dejarik (holochess) with the league. He knows that if he waits until November, then he can stash Dahlin on LTIR. That frees the GM up to acquire a sizable contract for the top 6 from a team that realizes their season is done. Dahlin gets his surgery and starts skating with the team in March... but isn't quite ready until the day the playoffs start and the cap restriction is gone, by which time Dahlin is 100% ready. Scores 1-2-3 +2 with a primary PPA in a game 1 of the quarterfinals. GM Sheevyn is a genius.

Edited October 21 by DarthEbriate

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Evidence? What evidence though?

I will agree 100% that he is not playing well compared to what he expect from him.  But if one watched the game with a blind eye to the jersey numbers and names on the back, I don't think the 'eye test' would show him to be any worse than those other guys.  Yeah, he is SUPPOSED to be a lot BETTER and he's not, but I can't point out anything he does in the same situations as the other guys where he is consistently and obviously worse.

If it was an injury I'd be all for sitting him for a few games, a few weeks even, rather than dealing with this version of him for the next few months. But if he is hurting the team, I think it is because he isn't 'himself', not because he is worse than anyone and everyone else.

There were what should have been routine plays on the end wall in our zone that ended up scoring chances for the other team.

And it was Chicago and Pittsburgh, not very good teams.

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I still don't totally understand how being named a captain should have a major impact on how well someone plays. I think its a bigger thing with the fans than it is with the players.

I'm guessing in any locker room in the NHL, the leaders are the leaders, the followers and the followers, the quiet guys are quiet and the outspoken guys are outspoken, no matter who 'officially' has the 'c'.

If you were traded to the Maple leafs last year mid season and walked into that room, Tavares had the "C" but it was pretty much Matthew's locker room and his team.  I think its always been like that. There are former players who talk about the Oilers in the 80's and say "Gretzky may have worn the 'C', but it was Messier's team and his locker room.'

I'm sure it matters to some players, others don't give a ****. But even to the players that it matters, I think its much more of a 'ceremonial' honor they can 'put on their resume' and brag about jokingly to teammates in the offseason.  It shouldn't, and I don't think, changes much in practice or on the ice.

If Lindy Ruff came in as a new coach an Dahlin was the highest paid and best player on the team and was NOT the captain, I don't think that new coach treats you any differently or gives your more or less responsibility if you did have the "C".

 People react in different ways. Maybe it went to his head, or maybe it didn't matter and something else is the problem. Maybe he has fallen in love. That happens 

[msw2112]

I agree with the fact that Dahlin has had a very slow start to the season and that he doesn't look right.  I'm going to go with injury.  It's a fact that he missed some of camp and preseason with an injury.  Perhaps that injury has lingered.

I don't think it's mental strain due to being named captain.  If he was trying to prove himself and prove his worth, he'd be flying all over the ice, hitting with reckless abandon, and making defensive mistakes by trying to do too much and getting out of position.  That's definitely not the way he's been playing.  He just seems slow and tentative.

I don't think it's Ruff's system.  Ruff is a pretty smart coach who has been around the block.  He knows how to adapt.  He's not Ralph Krueger.  I don't think Ruff will try to shoehorn Dahlin into a system that handcuffs him and takes away what makes him great.

I have no idea what the preseason injury was, but if it's a sports hernia, as someone hinted at above, that's a tough one.  I've had one.  You can play through it, but it's very painful, particularly after you've played and you're no longer warmed up.  Sometimes this injury is treated like a groin strain that will heal itself, as the symptoms are the same, but the recovery is not the same.  To truly fix it, it takes surgery and a couple of months rest/rehab to come back 100%.  Assuming it is an injury with Dahlin, I hope it's not a sports hernia, as the best bet would be to shut him down, have the surgery, and work his way back around the first of the year.

 

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, bg17 said:

Of all the possible explanations does this make the most sense to you?

It's a simple explanation and is always a possibility. There  have been many cases of things like that in hockey on many teams. When Torts went to Vancouver the Sedins basically decided nope, not going to play for him and Torts was out the door. Krejci didn't want to play for Cassidy in Boston. Bruins kept him so Krejci quit and went back to Czechia. Then DeBrusk wanted out so that was it for Cassidy. Point is being a good coach does not mean star players will respond and play for you. 

Dahlin has had issues before when he was asked to play a more disciplined detailed way. So it's possible there is a problem. I'd be happier if it's some temporary thing or lingering injury but they say he's healthy so I have to assume that's true. 

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, sabremike said:

I have no idea how anyone can fail to see he is playing hurt. It's fascinating that some people can't pick up on something so obvious.

Bull.

You telling me he's playing hurt but laying into Krebs in practice? Not a chance. A hurt player would not do that and if he was really hurt he'd have a no contact jersey on. That is "obvious". 

[Idemo Buffalo]

Per Paul Hamilton (WGR)on X a few hours ago

"Ruff said Dahlin hasn't been playing at 100% health, but did say with the last two games, he is getting closer. He also said Greenway is felling better and he's looking good for tomorrow"

[sabremike]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Bull.

You telling me he's playing hurt but laying into Krebs in practice? Not a chance. A hurt player would not do that and if he was really hurt he'd have a no contact jersey on. That is "obvious". 

Seriously, read the post right below yours where Lindy outright say he's been playing hurt.

[PerreaultForever]

"not 100%" is not "hurt". 

[Kristian]

9 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

"not 100%" is not "hurt". 

Sorry, but usually that’s exactly what it is?

Most of the time, coaches won’t say anything at all, but when something is physically wrong with a player, that’s the kind of statement they’ll make if pressed on the matter.

Also, other teams have access to Sabres practices, if Dahlin wore a no-contact jersey and played, they’d be all over him. Likely, they’re being told to back off of him instead. Krebbs probably didn’t, and Dahlin started throwing them.

[HOUSE]

Slow start, a few injuries, team is in transition,  too much Tim Hortons & Lindy Ruff is spending to much time in his ear.

[Idemo Buffalo]

7 hours ago, Kristian said:

Sorry, but usually that’s exactly what it is?

Most of the time, coaches won’t say anything at all, but when something is physically wrong with a player, that’s the kind of statement they’ll make if pressed on the matter.

Also, other teams have access to Sabres practices, if Dahlin wore a no-contact jersey and played, they’d be all over him. Likely, they’re being told to back off of him instead. Krebbs probably didn’t, and Dahlin started throwing them.

If a coach says publicly a player is not 100% it means his game is being hampered by an injury. If he was "hurt" he wouldn't be on the ice. 

If you had to quantify it, most guys might be playing at 90-95% health but a guy like Dahlin is probably playing at 70-75%. In professional sports that is noticeable. 

If Dahlin does not improve over the next 2 weeks he probably will find himself taking a few games off, but trainers/doctors know which injuries guys can play through and still get better and which injuries only heal with time off.