Quinn Scratched…Who’s next?

[bob_sauve28]

With Greenway and Aube Kubel coming back, soon, I hope, there is a log jam at forward. Who sits will be interesting. Kulick looks like he belongs, Quinn and Cozens better start performing or they might be in press box. Aube Kubel should play, I really wish he played in that Pens game, would of loved his physical presence in that third period

[triumph_communes]

Quinn still looks awful. Something is wrong but he doesn’t deserve to be gifted minutes figuring it out

 

Thimpson and Tuch woke up. Thankfully 

 

Samuelsson needs benched I don’t care how much I hate Bryson

[JohnC]

On 10/20/2024 at 7:24 AM, MISabresFan said:

LOL - so he was the right choice in a bogus hiring process.  Wonder who would have been coach in a correct hiring process?

In a legitimate process with the primary criteria established of having experience he would have been a prime candidate, and a worthy selection. You may disagree but it was a reasonable outcome within a charade process. 

 

On 10/18/2024 at 3:44 PM, Ruff Around The Edges said:

I think the Sabres need TWO legit centers, Cozens and Tage would be more consistent and successful on the wings, and this would push some of the other forwards down into better roles as well.

 

 

I half agree and disagree with your conclusion that both Cozens and Tage should be on the wing. Tage needs space to work with in order to be effective. So I would keep him in the center spot. Cozens is pressing and doesn't have the vision of a center. I would put him on the wing. Maybe that change of position will also relax him enough to do less thinking and more reacting. 

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

I think my soft fans comment proves out.  We traded Savoie for McLeod, who you just posted as wanting to give 2C minutes to.  Then complain we don't have centres and name Savoie.

Our fan base has lost its ability to think clearly.

You are childish and delusional.  I am stating we need to be better at center.   If you think we don’t, that’s great for you.  

I pointed out we drafted 6 centers in four years (which includes Savoie), something you can’t seem to follow,  to illustrate the teams need at center.  

I want to give McLoed more minutes because Cozens play isn’t as good as his right now.  

Your inability to follow and comprehend a discussion is the problem.  

Your calling me or the fan base soft is just the childish response of someone who cannot contribute a tangible comment about hockey.   
 

 

[JohnC]

16 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You are childish and delusional.  I am stating we need to be better at center.   If you think we don’t, that’s great for you.  

I pointed out we drafted 6 centers in four years (which includes Savoie), something you can’t seem to follow,  to illustrate the teams need at center.  

I want to give McLoed more minutes because Cozens play isn’t as good as his right now.  

Your inability to follow and comprehend a discussion is the problem.  

Your calling me or the fan base soft is just the childish response of someone who cannot contribute a tangible comment about hockey.   
 

 

Even if it is for the short-term, Cozens needs to be moved to the wing. Maybe that will relax him and allow to think less and play more reactively. He's clearly pressing. Moving him to the wing would not be a punishment. It is making a change to get him back to his previously productive form. Even if moving him to another position is a temporary move to change the dynamic of the situation, it might be the right response to jolt him into better play. 

[Jorcus]

3 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

With Greenway and Aube Kubel coming back, soon, I hope, there is a log jam at forward. Who sits will be interesting. Kulick looks like he belongs, Quinn and Cozens better start performing or they might be in press box. Aube Kubel should play, I really wish he played in that Pens game, would of loved his physical presence in that third period

I think if both those guys came back Benson is going to get the hook. What can he do that Aube Kubel can not? They are just not going to take Cozens out. Quinn and Kulick may trade off depending how things are going.

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Quinn still looks awful. Something is wrong but he doesn’t deserve to be gifted minutes figuring it out

Thimpson and Tuch woke up. Thankfully 

Samuelsson needs benched I don’t care how much I hate Bryson

JJP's return awakened them.

Gilbert can play if Muel gets a night or two off.

[7+6=13]

5 hours ago, Pimlach said:

You are childish and delusional.  I am stating we need to be better at center.   If you think we don’t, that’s great for you.  

I pointed out we drafted 6 centers in four years (which includes Savoie), something you can’t seem to follow,  to illustrate the teams need at center.  

I want to give McLoed more minutes because Cozens play isn’t as good as his right now.  

Your inability to follow and comprehend a discussion is the problem.  

Your calling me or the fan base soft is just the childish response of someone who cannot contribute a tangible comment about hockey.   
 

 

Duh, we all know we need to be better at center.  Just the reasonable fans aren't crying about Savoie and Helenius being the reason. You got busted falsely being upset with the organization.

[Kristian]

On 10/18/2024 at 4:37 PM, Pimlach said:

Samuelsson would be a good start.  Play Gilbert or Bryson.  
 

Kulich showed something yesterday but I expect to see Quinn back in Chicago.  
 

Cozens should sit out but we have no centers.    
 

We traded a star center, drafted a bunch of centers that are not really centers, traded a solid playmaking center, and now we have very little at center.  

Maybe Ville Leino is available?

[Night Train]

Muel . He's in year 2 of looking lost. JMO. 

[SABRES 0311]

Dahlin just go send a message. Unless his lackluster play is because of an injury.

[Taro T]

Not really the right place for this, but got tired of scrolling back through topics to find a Quinn specific one.

Until he tried to set the Ducks up with a breakaway in the last minute or so of the game that they were unable to take advantage of; thought Quinn had his best game of the season last night.  If he is finally starting to understand how he fits into Ruff's system we should see his play actually being useful like last night rather than like his 1st nearly 20 games.

Though he didn't score, he was driving to the slot with the puck creating HD chances, he made some nice passes, and he wasn't randomly turning the puck over (well, at least not until his last shift in regulation; baby steps) nor noticably seeming lost in his own end.

Will be paying attention to his play tonight vs the Snarks to see if it was just a 1 game fluke or if he really is finally getting it.

[steveoat87]

I think with Quinn, the Achilles injury is still a big factor, whether it is psychological or physical.  I know some basketball players who've had achilles injuries have taken several years before they are back to normal.  You don't suddenly lose skill, but you do lose confidence.  Hoping he can get this back.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, steveoat87 said:

I think with Quinn, the Achilles injury is still a big factor, whether it is psychological or physical.  I know some basketball players who've had achilles injuries have taken several years before they are back to normal.  You don't suddenly lose skill, but you do lose confidence.  Hoping he can get this back.

Could be but he didn't show any obvious injury affects last season, he came back and played pretty good hockey. 

It looked to me at the start of the season that Quinn was playing reluctant hockey, maybe thinking too much, not shooting when he had opportunities, and now he is probably pressing and frustrated.  He is not fulfilling the role of a scoring top 6 winger.  Unfortunately, unlike Benson, he is not a scrappy and physical two-way 3rd line player at this point either.   If he could get himself stronger, play in the 195 lb range, he could be a really good 3rd liner with scoring ability to help the second line as well.  Physically he looks the same as last year to me, no stronger and no faster.  Mentally he is much worse - less hockey  sense and less confidence.  

He hit a wall that he could very well snap out of, the problem is what to do with him until he does?  He has to play to get better and he won't clear waivers to go back to Rochester.  We could trade him and watch him grow and flourish on another team which would be a very Sabre-like thing to have happen.  

We could be seeing that Adams' decision to keep all these high draft picks, not bring in solid vet "blockers",  and then quickly sending a bunch of promising 20 year olds up the NHL so quickly was maybe not a good move?   Right now there are several young Sabres that are struggling and holding the team back, but they cannot play down in the AHL.  We just have to coach them up and get them to the next level while still trying to win games. 

The Sabres are still developing players in the wrong league, BUT maybe by mid-season Quinn and few others will come back to life?  

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, steveoat87 said:

I think with Quinn, the Achilles injury is still a big factor, whether it is psychological or physical.  I know some basketball players who've had achilles injuries have taken several years before they are back to normal.  You don't suddenly lose skill, but you do lose confidence.  Hoping he can get this back.

I can't see that being the issue. If it was you'd notice it in his skating and his skating is fine. imo he's just a soft coward. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Foligno knocking him flat with a shoulder sums it up. He still looks like a child playing with men and is only effective in open ice. 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, steveoat87 said:

I think with Quinn, the Achilles injury is still a big factor, whether it is psychological or physical.  I know some basketball players who've had achilles injuries have taken several years before they are back to normal.  You don't suddenly lose skill, but you do lose confidence.  Hoping he can get this back.

 

Yeah, am with @Pimlach on this one.  Expect it isn't the injury because it really didn't manifest itself as an issue when he came back last year.  

Expect the issue started out him thinking way too much about what he was supposed to be doing in the new coach's system and now that he's starting to figure out where he's supposed to be he's gripping the stick too tight.

He'd probably be a great choice to sit in the press box a couple of games with a coach sitting next to him, but with Greenway and Lafferty out they aren't likely to sit him as well to give Kozak some ice time.  Heck, expect that Kulich could use a brief spell in the press box or back in Ra-cha-cha briefly but they can't do that move either right now.

[PerreaultForever]

I figured that would ruffle some feathers. 

Consider however, that 1) he went down fast and easy with just a shoulder and 2) he did nothing and not a single Sabre on the ice did anything either. 

So give me more red X's if it makes you feel better about it, but it won't change it. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I figured that would ruffle some feathers. 

Consider however, that 1) he went down fast and easy with just a shoulder and 2) he did nothing and not a single Sabre on the ice did anything either. 

So give me more red X's if it makes you feel better about it, but it won't change it. 

It's really just that calling a professional athlete that got knocked down by a good clean check a "soft coward" is peak pathetic internet keyboard warrior nonsense. Normally I enjoy your remarks, even if I disagree - but that comment was bleh.

[LTS]

1 hour ago, ska-T Chitown said:

It's really just that calling a professional athlete that got knocked down by a good clean check a "soft coward" is peak pathetic internet keyboard warrior nonsense. Normally I enjoy your remarks, even if I disagree - but that comment was bleh.

Really?  What do you call a guy who gets knocked down and just sits there looking at Foligno and does nothing about it? The entire team watched one of their players get knocked down and not even a shove at Foligno?  Why?

It's cowardly. The only other word I could possibly use would be uncaring, but this team is soft and they don't want to engage in playing a physical game. They care enough to try and play skilled, so uncaring is not right.  So I would use cowardly. They are afraid to play physical either because of the physicality itself or because they are being coached to avoid it.

 

[Pimlach]

17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I can't see that being the issue. If it was you'd notice it in his skating and his skating is fine. imo he's just a soft coward. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Foligno knocking him flat with a shoulder sums it up. He still looks like a child playing with men and is only effective in open ice. 

I would not call him a coward for not wanting to fight Marcus Foligno.  He has no chance in that fight, Foligno is a monster.   All he is going to do is get injured for no reason.   Why no one else came in to answer, that is another story all together.  

Quinn needs to get physically stronger, he doesn't stay on his feet in scrums, and it does not look like he added any strength in the off season.  He just turned 23, he should be packing on some more weight and at 6'1" and 185 he has the framework to add muscle.  Physically, he very similar to Sam Reinhart.  Same height, and Quinn can add 10 to 12 pounds just like Reinhart did. 

People said the same things about Reinhart and look at him today at 29 years old and in his prime.  I am not saying Quinn can be as good as Reinhart, I am saying we threw these kids out there at 20 (Cozens, Quinn, Peterka) and they are still growing and learning at 22-23. They will all get stronger and better.  They will be better players at 25, probably for another team with the way things are going for this franchise.  

You can develop one or two good young players on a veteran team, but the Adams plan of no blockers called for a large group of kids to all come together at once, assumes no set backs in their game (straight line improvement),  and with very little veteran help.  I cant think of a team that successfully did this without having to retool the group at some point.  

 

Edited December 3 by Pimlach

[ska-T Palmtown]

16 minutes ago, LTS said:

Really?  What do you call a guy who gets knocked down and just sits there looking at Foligno and does nothing about it? The entire team watched one of their players get knocked down and not even a shove at Foligno?  Why?

It's cowardly. The only other word I could possibly use would be uncaring, but this team is soft and they don't want to engage in playing a physical game. They care enough to try and play skilled, so uncaring is not right.  So I would use cowardly. They are afraid to play physical either because of the physicality itself or because they are being coached to avoid it.

 

As @Pimlach pointed out in his response - in no world (my words) is it cowardly to get knocked down by a clean body check and not try to go after the guy. The original comment called the recipient, Quinn, a soft coward for taking the hit and not retaliating. That is just preposterous. That no one on the Sabres attempted to lay a clean shoulder into Marcus ... that is fair game.

**I would give you a "red x" for misunderstanding that the original comment was direct at Quinn, but a "green check" for the observation about the team ... so they cancel out i guess, lol

Edited December 3 by ska-T Chitown

[Mr Peabody]

Quinn, (along with the rest of us) has seen Stillman, Tuch, and Cozens stand up to getting knocked around.  Didn’t end well.  
 

The reason none of his teammates responded is they too wouldn’t fare well against Foligno.  That’s on KA, not the players.  Gilbert is as close as we’ve got to someone who could.  I feared we’d lose Clifton when he stood up to Gudas.

 

Don’t remember which recent game but saw Dahlin take a cheap shot to the arm /shoulder and nothing we could / did do about it.  I said before the beginning of last season that KA was trying to get these kids killed.

[Pimlach]

10 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

As @Pimlach pointed out in his response - in no world (my words) is it cowardly to get knocked down by a clean body check and not try to go after the guy. The original comment called the recipient, Quinn, a soft coward for taking the hit and not retaliating. That is just preposterous. That no one on the Sabres attempted to lay a clean shoulder into Marcus ... that is fair game.

**I would give you a "red x" for misunderstanding that the original comment was direct at Quinn, but a "green check" for the observation about the team ... so they cancel out i guess, lol

The context is a bit different.  I consider this a late hit, after the whistle, and not a clean body check.   

The play ended, Quinn's momentum caried him to the goalie crease after the Minnesota goalie made the save.  Foligno came in a little bit late and knocked Quinn down hard after the whistle.   Quinn fell like a ton of bricks. No Sabre player did a thing.  Quinn slowly got up and skated away while Foligno looked menacing, waiting for someone, anyone, to respond.  No one did.  A ref stood right there and called nothing.  

I have seen Benson get called for less offensive hits at the whistle.   To me someone on the Sabres could have responded while Quinn was down, but they did nothing.  Just a push back and a sign of life would have been something.  

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I figured that would ruffle some feathers. 

Consider however, that 1) he went down fast and easy with just a shoulder and 2) he did nothing and not a single Sabre on the ice did anything either. 

So give me more red X's if it makes you feel better about it, but it won't change it. 

Here kids, let me give you my take from 1985. Your feathered got ruffled if you're commenting on ppl given you the red x.

Y'all think the Sabres are soft when in truth they're young. That's blindingly obvious problem. 

[LTS]

29 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I would not call him a coward for not wanting to fight Marcus Foligno.  He has no chance in that fight, Foligno is a monster.   All he is going to do is get injured for no reason.   Why no one else came in to answer, that is another story all together.  

Quinn needs to get physically stronger, he doesn't stay on his feet in scrums, and it does not look like he added any strength in the off season.  He just turned 23, he should be packing on some more weight and at 6'1" and 185 he has the framework to add muscle.  Physically, he very similar to Sam Reinhart.  Same height, and Quinn can add 10 to 12 pounds just like Reinhart did. 

People said the same things about Reinhart and look at him today at 29 years old and in his prime.  I am not saying Quinn can be as good as Reinhart, I am saying we threw these kids out there at 20 (Cozens, Quinn, Peterka) and they are still growing and learning at 22-23. They will all get stronger and better.  They will be better players at 25, probably for another team with the way things are going for this franchise.  

You can develop one or two good young players on a veteran team, but the Adams plan of no blockers called for a large group of kids to all come together at once, assumes no set backs in their game (straight line improvement),  and with very little veteran help.  I cant think of a team that successfully did this without having to retool the group at some point.  

 

I wouldn't expect him to fight Foligno.  I expected him to bounce right back up to his feet and at least shove him or respond. He did NOTHING but stare. And yes, the rest of the team did it as well.

It's not about fighting, it's about pushing back when you get pushed. If you get pushed and just take it, you are, in my eyes, being cowardly. You are afraid of the potential escalation. You can't play hockey that way. You have to be willing to get physical. Odds are good that if Quinn shoves back, a scrum ensues and no real fight breaks out. There might be a few roughing calls made.

 

Edited December 3 by LTS