GDT: Sabres @ Penguins October, 16 2024 @ 7:00PM on TNT

[HOUSE]

The Penguins fell asleep in the 3rd pretty much napping

Then they said ah oh, better start playing again...

SOS

 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Now that my anger has somewhat subsided.....Some Thoughts and Observations - 

Many players underperforming and look underwhelming. In no particular order:

Dahlin - Just looks lost

Power - Does this kid ever use his size and body?

Quinn - Does not even look fast this year

Cozens - Starting to look like a horrible contract

Muel - Another bad contract on the horizon

 

Our Special teams are sickening. Put pressure on the PP, and they fold like a cheap deck of cards. They cannot even get setup in the zone!! The PK refuses to be physical in front of our own net. 

I thought this team was supposed to be hard to play against?? That is definitely not evident. 5 games and 3 points will not get us in the playoffs, but could get us another top 5 pick to waste on another undersized non physical forward. I really love Lindy but he is going to regret coming back to this tire fire. Not even he can save this team/organization from itself, bad decisions, and poor play.

 

 

[Taro T]

Well, people clamored for more OTL's than in the past few seasons.  They got their wish last night.  (Ducks.)

Stinks that they let the Pens get 2 points, but really didn't see how the Pens weren't going to win on the night that 2 Sabre killers were both a single point from major milestones.  (Definitely after Crosby got his milestone point, would've been a very special night for Buffalo should they have gotten the W.)  Get the next 2 W's and they're on a 4 game point streak.  Will need to take 5 of the following 6 to get to a playoff 0.600 pace; but worry about that when they get to the Dallas and following games.  Right now, beat Columbus.  Will likely be the 1st game Columbus plays that doesn't have a Gaudreau tribute to start the game, so those guys will be out of their element.

[JP51]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

The Quinn fan club has to start admitting that he is sucking just as bad as Cozens. Benson I excuse as he's a 19 year old and I'm not shocked he is up and down and has to grow but Quinn is horrible. Cozens is horrible. The unit is a complete liability. 

4th line is also garbage. They have done absolutely nothing. 

I think this is just the Sabre way... take talented kids... ruin them in the country club system... trade them and put them in a competent one and watch them succeed. Nothing changes until we change from the top down.  

[WhenWillItEnd66]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, people clamored for more OTL's than in the past few seasons.  They got their wish last night.  (Ducks.)

Stinks that they let the Pens get 2 points, but really didn't see how the Pens weren't going to win on the night that 2 Sabre killers were both a single point from major milestones.  (Definitely after Crosby got his milestone point, would've been a very special night for Buffalo should they have gotten the W.)  Get the next 2 W's and they're on a 4 game point streak.  Will need to take 5 of the following 6 to get to a playoff 0.600 pace; but worry about that when they get to the Dallas and following games.  Right now, beat Columbus.  Will likely be the 1st game Columbus plays that doesn't have a Gaudreau tribute to start the game, so those guys will be out of their element.

You forgot to add that the TNT homers were pretty much a Pens broadcast. Even the first intermission was all about the Pens and we were up 3-1!!!!! Then the refs got involved.... Pens did not wrong and we could not get out of our own way penalty wise..... That was a serious BS night broadcast and Ref wise.

[Carmel Corn]

9 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

As much as I hate his play currently, and I think he is hurting the team, I wouldn't trade him (yet) either.  Unless you get a really good offer. 

But I think his game isn't evolving, its not growing. He plays 'dumb' hockey.  Putting him out there over and over, making him your #2 center and never taking that away from him no matter how poorly he plays....that doesn't really give him any incentive to change his play.

The only thing I can think of is he is a "Pegula guy". Pegula sees the aggressive play and says "I like that kid".  Pegula saw the 30 goal season, and, like a fan, assumes that is the norm, not the exception.  Not to take Adams off the hook totally, but I can see Pegula as one that wanted to 'lock him up' to a long term deal so early and encouraged the team to get it done. It might be the reason that he isn't ever taken out of the lineup. I mean, maybe not, but there doesn't seem like any other reason that makes sense.

He's played bad defensively for his entire career, he hasn't scored for a year and a half, and now 2 different head coaches keep putting him out there and giving him every opportunity in every single situation. Granato and Ruff aren't common denominators. Adams and Pegula are, and I think it might be a tad bit more Pegula.

I can think of several words to describe Cozens lately, but AGGRESSIVE isn’t one of them IMHO.  He should be hitting everything in sight (since he can’t score worth a crap right now).  No leadership at all since he got beat up last year.

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

I thought this team was supposed to be hard to play against?? That is definitely not evident. 5 games and 3 points will not get us in the playoffs, but could get us another top 5 pick to waste on another undersized non physical forward. I really love Lindy but he is going to regret coming back to this tire fire. Not even he can save this team/organization from itself, bad decisions, and poor play.

Let me tell you about Roger McQueen (6'5"), Michael Misa (6'1"), Porter Martone (6'3"), and Malcolm Spence (6'2") all forwards, all 185lbs to 200lbs and all with physical elements to their games. McQueen and Misa are a step ahead of the other two but man, if we draft top 5, we ain't getting an undersized non-physical forward in this draft. 

[LETSTUCHINGO]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

The Quinn fan club has to start admitting that he is sucking just as bad as Cozens. Benson I excuse as he's a 19 year old and I'm not shocked he is up and down and has to grow but Quinn is horrible. Cozens is horrible. The unit is a complete liability. 

4th line is also garbage. They have done absolutely nothing. 

I agree that Cozens has been horrible and he drives me nuts as well. His play over the last 2 season has been almost as disappointing as missing the playoffs again. Quinn, is a ghost! I didn't even know he was on the ice last night. He looks like a shell of his former self before the injury.

Where I strongly disagree is with the 4th line. I think they have played with speed, pace, and tenacity! To be honest, I'm fine with the play of every line except the 2nd line, they have been atrocious and a liability every time they touch the ice.

UPL needs to pick it up. Every time he needed to come up with a save, he folded! I don't know how you start the game the way they did, then come back only to lose the lead with under a minute left to losing in OT! Only the Sabres continued ineptness makes that ending possible.

(I used the return button for Inky 😉)

[WhenWillItEnd66]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Let me tell you about Roger McQueen (6'5"), Michael Misa (6'1"), Porter Martone (6'3"), and Malcolm Spence (6'2") all forwards, all 185lbs to 200lbs and all with physical elements to their games. McQueen and Misa are a step ahead of the other two but man, if we draft top 5, we ain't getting an undersized non-physical forward in this draft. 

Well we are well on our way to getting one of them then! 🙂

[JohnC]

I'm disappointed that we didn't get the win but one positive takeaway from this road game is that we got a loser point. In previous years, the team would exit the arean with zero points. Another positive is the play of JJP. He's fast and he can shoot. His goals were from laser shots into small openings. 

I read a criticism of UPL's play in this thread. My question is: What game were you watching? He kept us in the game with more than solid play. One of the encouraging things about our disappointing early record is the play of our two goalies. If we get that standard of play for most of the season, then this should be in the playoff fray. 

As someone mentioned, and I have previously mentioned, Cozens may be a better winger than center. That's why a consider the Mitts trade for a defenseman a mistake. A line of Cozens/Mitts/Quinn made a lot of sense. And you still could periodically interchange the wing/center positions between Cozens and Mitts. Our GM seemed to have outsmarted himself.

Little things to like: the play of Clifford. 

If we can get a win in Columbus it will take some of the sting away from this Pitts game.

[eman]

8 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

1-3-1 isn’t bad after an 0-3 start. Didn’t like how this one ended, obviously. But scoring 10 over two games is definitely a good sign.

Going into the year I liked our projected line 1 and 4. They have been mostly good. I didn’t like lines 2 and 3. Line 3 has actually been very good. Line 2 (Cozens, Quinn, Benson) is a disaster; 1 assist and -12 between them. When they get that line either going or broken up, and UPL gets rolling (I’m not worried about UPL), I think we have a chance to be in it. 

They have until US Thanksgiving "to be in it"- or you can count them out of it (again). You cannot throw away early season games and hope "to get hot" down the stretch. This board has said this before and it never comes to fruition. "it's early in the season", "so many games left" "if they get hot in the next stretch they'll be alright"- it never happens with this club. All the other teams in this division have improved their clubs, it will be harder this season than in seasons past. They need to come to play yesterday!

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

You forgot to add that the TNT homers were pretty much a Pens broadcast. Even the first intermission was all about the Pens and we were up 3-1!!!!! Then the refs got involved.... Pens did not wrong and we could not get out of our own way penalty wise..... That was a serious BS night broadcast and Ref wise.

Except for the announcers being TNT and not Roots (or whoever broadcasts in the Pittsburgh market now) it pretty much was a Pens broadcast.  Even the digital ads on the boards were all for UPMC and other Pittsburgh based items.  Which seemed quite strange in broadcast.  Figured TNT would've wanted to hire out their own digital ads.  Guess not.

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

The Quinn fan club has to start admitting that he is sucking just as bad as Cozens. Benson I excuse as he's a 19 year old and I'm not shocked he is up and down and has to grow but Quinn is horrible. Cozens is horrible. The unit is a complete liability. 

4th line is also garbage. They have done absolutely nothing. 

Honestly, this is why I block you. Condescending. It would be like if Boston played a bad game and I was like "oh the Boston fan club around here has to FINALLLLY START TO ADMIT that they are in decline". There's just no need for the accusation or tone. 

Quinn has played like *****, he's a non factor on his line just like Cozens. That is actually why Benson is where he is, somewhat invisible because Benson's game is predicated on being smart, winning pucks, and getting them into prime scoring areas. His two teammates thus far don't go to the prime areas and can't score if they get there. Plays completely die when they hit Cozens stick, it is like watching Olofsson without the nice shot, puck hits their stick, they have no idea what to do next, they make the wrong play and that's that. Quinn I have seen a few signs of life but he needs to get his feet moving. He seems to be gliding hither and thither all caddywhompus like without a purpose. Just awful from Quinn, he needs to simplify his game and play more north south. Cozens inability to shoot is not surprising, Quinn's inability to play hockey to start the year is. I personally wish we had another center for this line because whatever this line is, does not work. 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Do you know what this team needs? They need a versatile coachable playmaking center who can play on any line.  Wouldn’t it be nice if our incompetent GM didn’t trade away such a player. 

Cozens is dragging down his line. It’s time to make a change.  It’s time to admit that Cozens’ best position is on the wing.  Between McLeod, Krebs, Lafferty and Kulich we have 4 other guys to try as the 2nd line center.  Hell try Benson or Quinn.  

I’d try McLeod between Benson and Quinn first

I’d then try Kulich between Cozens and Greenway

Lastly Zucker Lafferty with Krebs/Malenstyn.  

Also it’s time to run with Levi in net. UPL isn’t looking all that sharp.  Not a surprise as KA gave him a big extension after one good year. 
 

It’s also time to shuffle the D pairings.  The current ones suck.  Time to try Dahlin w Power and experiment with the rest.  As I wrote in the off-season, I was worried that this group would continue to give up HDCA and that has been the case over the first 5 games.  No one should be surprised.  

This team has been desperate for a steady stay at home top 4 D for years and KA has responded to that need with Bryam, Clifton, Lyubuskin, Eric Johnson, re-signing Jokiharju.  

I had a brief moment of optimism about this club when looking at the best case scenarios.  Sadly, it’s becoming clear that this is a hopelessly constructed roster that lacks good in zone defense and adequate center play.  No team can win consistently with those 2 flaws.  

On the bright side, they didn’t fold after coughing up the lead in the 3rd and JJP is becoming a dominate offensive player.  They also worked hard to score by going to the net.  This is a very positive development. 

Edited October 17 by GASabresIUFAN

[thewookie1]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Do you know what this team needs? They need a versatile coachable playmaking center who can play on any line.  Wouldn’t it be nice if our incompetent GM didn’t trade away such a player. 

Cozens is dragging down his line. It’s time to make a change.  It’s time to admit that Cozens’ best position is on the wing.  Between McLeod, Krebs, Lafferty and Kulich we have 4 other guys to try as the 2nd line center.  Hell try Benson or Quinn.  

I’d try McLeod between Benson and Quinn first

I’d then try Kulich between Cozens and Greenway

Lastly Zucker Lafferty with Krebs/Malenstyn.  

Also it’s time to run with Levi in net. UPL isn’t looking all that sharp.  Not a surprise as KA gave him a big extension after one good year. 
 

It’s also time to shuffle the D pairings.  The current ones suck.  Time to try Dahlin w Power and experiment with the rest.  As I wrote in the off-season, I was worried that this group would continue to give up HDCA and that has been the case over the first 5 games.  No one should be surprised.  

This team has been desperate for a steady stay at home top 4 D for years and KA has responded to that need with Bryam, Clifton, Lyubuskin, Eric Johnson, re-signing Jokiharju.  

I had a brief moment of optimism about this club when looking at the best case scenarios.  Sadly, it’s becoming clear that this is a hopelessly constructed roster that lacks good in zone defense and adequate center play.  No team can win consistently with those 2 flaws.  

Muel was supposed to be it and showed plenty of potential but is seemingly imploding

Byram wasn't the type of defenseman I wanted but we were effectively blocked with a more defensive player in Pesce and seemingly can't find a way to draw in one via FA

Clifton has done well and is a good 3rd pairing player.

Lyubuskin and Johnson were effectively Hail Mary's 

Jokiharju plays well with Dahlin...... that's about it 

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

I can think of several words to describe Cozens lately, but AGGRESSIVE isn’t one of them IMHO.  He should be hitting everything in sight (since he can’t score worth a crap right now).  No leadership at all since he got beat up last year.

I posted this earlier, but look at the replay of the goals allowed last night, the one where Pittsburgh broke out of their zone quickly and Benson got back but was a tad late.  Look at Cozens there.

-1st, he wasn't going to get back no matter what, the goal was scored too quickly, but it is an example of bad plays he makes all the time, and it was an example of being over-aggressive.

-In the Pittsburgh Zone, the puck was already picked up by Pittsburgh.  Cozens had a decision to make. Hit the guy who made the initial pass (following through on the hit) but potentially taking him out of the play...or make a quick turn and get back into the defensive zone quickly. He chooses to make the hit, thus making him the last guy back into the zone.

-If you look at the hit, you might say he was going high, but he did lead with his shoulder, so at first it looks 'ok' but then he follows through with the fore-arm and eventually it ends up looking like the hit turned into a punch with the follow through.

In that case, he was being phyiscal, but it was another bad decision. He chose to make a hit (a borderline illegal one) but in doing so make sure there would be no chance he could be back in his own zone in transition.  There are times to make hits, but those times are not "all the time".

 

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

I'm disappointed that we didn't get the win but one positive takeaway from this road game is that we got a loser point. In previous years, the team would exit the arean with zero points. Another positive is the play of JJP. He's fast and he can shoot. His goals were from laser shots into small openings. 

I read a criticism of UPL's play in this thread. My question is: What game were you watching? He kept us in the game with more than solid play. One of the encouraging things about our disappointing early record is the play of our two goalies. If we get that standard of play for most of the season, then this should be in the playoff fray. 

As someone mentioned, and I have previously mentioned, Cozens may be a better winger than center. That's why a consider the Mitts trade for a defenseman a mistake. A line of Cozens/Mitts/Quinn made a lot of sense. And you still could periodically interchange the wing/center positions between Cozens and Mitts. Our GM seemed to have outsmarted himself.

Little things to like: the play of Clifford. 

If we can get a win in Columbus it will take some of the sting away from this Pitts game.

I agree on most of that.

UPL didn't play spectacular, but when I watched the replays of the goals, it wasn't like all of them were "That one is on UPL and no one else". You score 5 goals and get his level of play, you should win. He wasn't stellar, but he wasn't bad.  Clifford also, overall his is playing on your 3rd pair but I would characterize his overall play as "VERY good 3rd pair" or "pretty decent 2nd pair" level.  I think he's fine.

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I posted this earlier, but look at the replay of the goals allowed last night, the one where Pittsburgh broke out of their zone quickly and Benson got back but was a tad late.  Look at Cozens there.

-1st, he wasn't going to get back no matter what, the goal was scored too quickly, but it is an example of bad plays he makes all the time, and it was an example of being over-aggressive.

-In the Pittsburgh Zone, the puck was already picked up by Pittsburgh.  Cozens had a decision to make. Hit the guy who made the initial pass (following through on the hit) but potentially taking him out of the play...or make a quick turn and get back into the defensive zone quickly. He chooses to make the hit, thus making him the last guy back into the zone.

-If you look at the hit, you might say he was going high, but he did lead with his shoulder, so at first it looks 'ok' but then he follows through with the fore-arm and eventually it ends up looking like the hit turned into a punch with the follow through.

In that case, he was being phyiscal, but it was another bad decision. He chose to make a hit (a borderline illegal one) but in doing so make sure there would be no chance he could be back in his own zone in transition.  There are times to make hits, but those times are not "all the time".

Cozens is rapidly approaching Ristolainen.

[Archie Lee]

2 hours ago, eman said:

They have until US Thanksgiving "to be in it"- or you can count them out of it (again). You cannot throw away early season games and hope "to get hot" down the stretch. This board has said this before and it never comes to fruition. "it's early in the season", "so many games left" "if they get hot in the next stretch they'll be alright"- it never happens with this club. All the other teams in this division have improved their clubs, it will be harder this season than in seasons past. They need to come to play yesterday!

The US Thanksgiving thing is a myth. Sure, by that date there has been a sorting out of teams and the best and worst teams have positioned themselves where only epic collapses or Herculean comebacks will push them out or in (see Blues & Sabres in 18/19).  But, the teams in the middle will fight to the end and there will typically be movement right up to the last few games.

45 wins gets a team in. Over the last 10 full 82 game seasons, no 45 win team has missed. 44 wins gets a team in about 70% of the time, 43 about 50%, and 42 about 30% (you need those loser points). Wins in October and November are no better or worse than wins in February and March. It was always unlikely that we were going to be a 50 win team this year. If we make it, we will likely do so in that 42-44 win range. If we are at the bottom of the conference a month from now, we are clearly in a lot of trouble and almost certainly will be out of it. If we are 10th to 13th and 4-5 points out, then there will still be lots of time to get back in it. 

Edited October 17 by Archie Lee

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Well, people clamored for more OTL's than in the past few seasons.  They got their wish last night.  (Ducks.)

Stinks that they let the Pens get 2 points, but really didn't see how the Pens weren't going to win on the night that 2 Sabre killers were both a single point from major milestones.  (Definitely after Crosby got his milestone point, would've been a very special night for Buffalo should they have gotten the W.)  Get the next 2 W's and they're on a 4 game point streak.  Will need to take 5 of the following 6 to get to a playoff 0.600 pace; but worry about that when they get to the Dallas and following games.  Right now, beat Columbus.  Will likely be the 1st game Columbus plays that doesn't have a Gaudreau tribute to start the game, so those guys will be out of their element.

That's gross.

[GASabresIUFAN]

48 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Jokiharju plays well with Dahlin...... that's about it 

Does he? I think he is sucking the life out of Dahlin’s game and his prior year metrics with Dahlin except last year aren’t good.

[Night Train]

Our D-man is Clifton

Not Clifford the big red dog that you guys watch every morning..

 

 

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

Just as in years past, but usually not until January, I will be leaving here until they surface  again within the top eight in the east.

good luck to all, removing this stress (which is supposed to be fun) as it’s just not worth it to me.

Go Bills

[GASabresIUFAN]

32 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Cozens is rapidly approaching Ristolainen.

Because he is playing the wrong position.  Move him to wing and the 3rd line and tell him to just be aggressive.  Go to the net young man.  With his current lack of confidence and inaccurate shot, he needs less responsibility not more until his game hopefully rebounds.

Edited October 17 by GASabresIUFAN

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Does he? I think he is sucking the life out of Dahlin’s game and his prior year metrics with Dahlin except last year aren’t good.

Analytically he suppresses Dahlin 3 pts but they are still positive.

Joki without Dahlin is 38% GF 

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because he is playing the wrong position.  Move him to wing and the 3rd line and tell him to just be aggressive.  Go to the net young man.  With his current lack of confidence and inaccurate shot, he needs less responsibility not more until his game hopefully rebounds.

He's certainly capable of better than 3rd line winger-hood

But his confidence seems shot at this time

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

What possibilities? The list of things wrong is much longer than the list of things right. 

No it isn't.  You are way to negative after 5 games, and you are not alone.  There are already people bailing on the season.  

You can't change 13 years of disfunction in a few months.  They looked pretty good at times.   They got a road point.   Sure, they blew 2 leads on the road and that sucks.   The biggest problem I see is that they are not good enough up the middle, and I knew that before the season started, so did a lot of us. 

They are a work in progress and the coaching staff has their work cut out for them.  

The game last night was made much more painful by the uneven and biased broadcast and officiating.   You knew Pittsburgh would get a PP in OT, they got all the calls, they had 6 power plays (to our 1), and they won the review on the offside.  

Lets see how this road trip shakes out.