GDT: Sabres @ Penguins October, 16 2024 @ 7:00PM on TNT

[mjd1001]

54 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

 

He's certainly capable of better than 3rd line winger-hood

But his confidence seems shot at this time

Cozens.... He's going to be 24, and he's in his what.. 5th NHL season? So yes he could still blossom into something more but we're getting to the point of figuring out who he is. He's not a 20-year-old in his second season anymore.

What he is right now for his career is this: He's a guy that will get you 200 shots on goal per year. He will shoot 10% per year (And that's averaging in his career year. For the other 75% of his career. He is consistently below that). He will make dumb plays without the puck and he's not showing many signs of getting better away from the park.

Maybe he'll start playing better and putting the puck in the net. Then we can have a different conversation. 

But as of now, somebody who averages 10% shooting at 200 shots a year is a 20 goal scorer. A 20 goal score who is consistently making mistakes without the puck, and has done that his entire career without really learning, what is that value? What is the value of a guy who who you hope will average 20 goals a year and play below average defensively? 

 

Edited October 17 by mjd1001

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Analytically he suppresses Dahlin 3 pts but they are still positive.

Joki without Dahlin is 38% GF 

He's certainly capable of better than 3rd line winger-hood

But his confidence seems shot at this time

That’s why you take the pressure off him and let him go play as a winger on the 3rd line and start having fun again. 

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

It looked like he was on his way to be a regular 30 goal scorer. Got a ridiculous extension on an outlier season. 

One outlier season was not a road to a 30 goal scorer.  Adyms really jumped the gun on that signing and he also blew the Mitts trade.  Both moves were the opposite of what a normal GM does.  

It is over and it happened.  Now all they can do is put Cozens in a position to be his best at this point in his career, which is a 3rd line player.  He should not be a 2C right now.  

Tonight:   

1.  I would try McCleod at 2C, find a way to give him more minutes at the expense of Cozens.  Cozens plays about 19-20 min, McLeod plays 15.  Change that.  

2.  I just might play Kulich tonight and sit Quinn.  Hard to say since I don't see and hear all the details.  Kulich could be due to score a few.  Quinn needs to look at the game from above for a night or two and figure it out.  It will help him to stop pressing and just let it flow.  

Beyond tonight: 

1.  UPL should rest tonight and not play a B2B, especially since Levi looks sharp.  But if we want UPL to return to form they need to let him play a few in a row and see if that gets him going.  He is a goalie that needs work to be his best.  

2.  Move Cozens to the 3rd line for awhile, he should not get all the minutes he is getting.  

3.  Getting Dahlin back to 100% is critical.  Something is missing in his offensive game.  

Edited October 17 by Pimlach

[mjd1001]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s why you take the pressure off him and let him go play as a winger on the 3rd line and start having fun again. 

I immediately take him off of both the penalty kill and the power play also. Doesn't mean he can never go back, but for now... No point of having him there.

[Sidc3000]

55 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You can't change 13 years of disfunction in a few months.  They looked pretty good at times. 

How many times do we have to hear this? I’ve heard this season after season for the past 5 or 6 seasons.  Nothing is going to get better when you have to same person or family calling the shots. 
 

as Journey said, “don’t stop believing”.

 

i have. 

Edited October 17 by Sidc3000

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

How many times do we have to hear this? I’ve heard this season after season for the past 5 or 6 seasons.  Nothing is going to get better when you have to same person or family calling the shots. 
 

as Journey said, “don’t stop believing”.

 

i have. 

You will hear it until it they hire someone capable of running an NHL team.  And even then, that person will need some time so you will hear it more after that.  

You want the losing to go away?   Hire a proven NHL GM and get out of his way.   Give him time.  Don't expect overnight success.

[HumanSlinky39]

11 hours ago, Pimlach said:

There are vets in there.  Young team sure, but they have some experience too.  

Yep. It's time to stop calling this a "young team." By age, they're the youngest team in the NHL, but this core is going on the 3rd to 4th season together. They have experience. The "youth" excuse has run out. It's time to start seeing real, tangible results.

Edited October 17 by HumanSlinky39

[Sidc3000]

14 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You will hear it until it they hire someone capable of running an NHL team.  And even then, that person will need some time so you will hear it more after that.  

You want the losing to go away?   Hire a proven NHL GM and get out of his way.   Give him time.  Don't expect overnight success.

But the Pegula’s don’t want that or they would have. Instead they hire discounted homers that make fans feel good. Pegula’s are trying to keep the fans and bay for the longest they could and it has seemed to work.
 

They don’t deserve our patients anymore. 

[SabreFinn]

One thing that has been on my mind since I watched the goals, was Penguins 5-5 goal. The game is in the last minute and they have pulled their goalie. The thing is, sooner or later they will try to get the puck on goal and go for a rebound or redirection. But it seems like our players on ice never have heard of such thing. Imo priority is to help the goalie keep the goals clean.

[JP51]

5 hours ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

Well we are well on our way to getting one of them then! 🙂

Unless we get screwed by the lottery... but this is a total top 5 year.  In the end I wonder why we even care at this point... 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Does he? I think he is sucking the life out of Dahlin’s game and his prior year metrics with Dahlin except last year aren’t good.

Why are you blaming the desultory play of Dahlin on Joki or any other partner he is assigned with? I don't know what is causing Dahlin's lackluster play but something is off kilter with him. In general, I would say that Joki is playing well. 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

To me, the problems with Quinn and Cozens are in the different end of the spectrum.

Quinn is invisible. I think I've seen two giveaways from him  but his problem is mostly the lack of offense. He's not hurting you too much with turnovers and bad decisions. 

Cozens isn't scoring either. He's working himself into position to get chances, He just can't convert them. But the other problem with Cozens is he's hurting you without the puck in all three zones. he's hurting you with giveaways, and he's hurting you with dumb plays.

So yeah, you want both of them to score and neither are doing that. But what's worse? Quinn not even getting chances that at least Cozens is getting? Or Cozens being a liability in all three zones of the ice where Quinn isnt doing that?

I'm not going to argue with this, Cozens has been awful, but I will put forward one thing for you to consider as a possibility. Cozens looks worse because he is at least trying harder and running around more because his linemates aren't doing much of anything. I think it's a little of all these things.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, JP51 said:

I think this is just the Sabre way... take talented kids... ruin them in the country club system... trade them and put them in a competent one and watch them succeed. Nothing changes until we change from the top down.  

I think Ruff has the right ideas and is telling them to do what it takes but the question of how many of them are "ruined" is up for debate. It may take a lot longer to fix them than we had hoped. Years even. Hard to say, but many of them definitely need fixing. 

This situation comes from not having a proper youngster/veteran mix over the years and Adams "grow together" all youth team has a much harder time building a winning culture from scratch. It does, of course, start with the tank. The rest from there is on Pegula's approach and meddling. 

[eman]

4 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

The US Thanksgiving thing is a myth. Sure, by that date there has been a sorting out of teams and the best and worst teams have positioned themselves where only epic collapses or Herculean comebacks will push them out or in (see Blues & Sabres in 18/19).  But, the teams in the middle will fight to the end and there will typically be movement right up to the last few games.

45 wins gets a team in. Over the last 10 full 82 game seasons, no 45 win team has missed. 44 wins gets a team in about 70% of the time, 43 about 50%, and 42 about 30% (you need those loser points). Wins in October and November are no better or worse than wins in February and March. It was always unlikely that we were going to be a 50 win team this year. If we make it, we will likely do so in that 42-44 win range. If we are at the bottom of the conference a month from now, we are clearly in a lot of trouble and almost certainly will be out of it. If we are 10th to 13th and 4-5 points out, then there will still be lots of time to get back in it. 

I have seen nothing from this seasons version that indicates to me they are any different than the team from last season or the season before that. If they aren't in the playoffs by US Thanksgiving, they will not be in the playoffs. I had this disagreement with another poster here last season about this and that "myth" was true once again. Book it! Unless some incredible trade gets made (and seriously, with Kevyn Adams as GM, I am seriously doubtful of that) or something changes in the mindset of this group of players, I just cannot see this club playoff bound. The defense is still pathetic as is the Power Play. They had better beat Columbus.

 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, LETSTUCHINGO said:

I agree that Cozens has been horrible and he drives me nuts as well. His play over the last 2 season has been almost as disappointing as missing the playoffs again. Quinn, is a ghost! I didn't even know he was on the ice last night. He looks like a shell of his former self before the injury.

Where I strongly disagree is with the 4th line. I think they have played with speed, pace, and tenacity! To be honest, I'm fine with the play of every line except the 2nd line, they have been atrocious and a liability every time they touch the ice.

UPL needs to pick it up. Every time he needed to come up with a save, he folded! I don't know how you start the game the way they did, then come back only to lose the lead with under a minute left to losing in OT! Only the Sabres continued ineptness makes that ending possible.

(I used the return button for Inky 😉)

I think my expectation of what this line would be has colored my perception. I will admit I'm also likely more critical of this 4th line because of how good the Bruins new 4th line is. It's their best line actually. Their so called 2nd line has also sucked bad but that 4th line is dominant and this Tampa cast off Koepke is better than any of our 4th liners. Don't know how they find these guys but they didn't have to give up a 2nd rounder to get him. What they have in their 4th line is what I was hoping the Sabres would have in theirs. The injury might be a factor with Krebs being Krebs as the substitute but I guess ultimately I wanted more from them.

No disagreement on line 2 though. Absolute garbage. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Honestly, this is why I block you. Condescending. It would be like if Boston played a bad game and I was like "oh the Boston fan club around here has to FINALLLLY START TO ADMIT that they are in decline". There's just no need for the accusation or tone. 

Quinn has played like *****, he's a non factor on his line just like Cozens. That is actually why Benson is where he is, somewhat invisible because Benson's game is predicated on being smart, winning pucks, and getting them into prime scoring areas. His two teammates thus far don't go to the prime areas and can't score if they get there. Plays completely die when they hit Cozens stick, it is like watching Olofsson without the nice shot, puck hits their stick, they have no idea what to do next, they make the wrong play and that's that. Quinn I have seen a few signs of life but he needs to get his feet moving. He seems to be gliding hither and thither all caddywhompus like without a purpose. Just awful from Quinn, he needs to simplify his game and play more north south. Cozens inability to shoot is not surprising, Quinn's inability to play hockey to start the year is. I personally wish we had another center for this line because whatever this line is, does not work. 

 

The reason I  do that (for people like you) is because of what you don't notice. I can't count how many times you shoved stats in my face and stuck sarcastic memes up when I was questioning whether or not Quinn was actually any good and simply saying "I have to see it on the ice and I haven't". All those critiques and sarcastic (and even insulting at times) comments from you elicit these "told you so" posts from me. 

So block away. IDC. But I told you so. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Pimlach said:

No it isn't.  You are way to negative after 5 games, and you are not alone.  There are already people bailing on the season.  

You can't change 13 years of disfunction in a few months.  They looked pretty good at times.   They got a road point.   Sure, they blew 2 leads on the road and that sucks.   The biggest problem I see is that they are not good enough up the middle, and I knew that before the season started, so did a lot of us. 

They are a work in progress and the coaching staff has their work cut out for them.  

The game last night was made much more painful by the uneven and biased broadcast and officiating.   You knew Pittsburgh would get a PP in OT, they got all the calls, they had 6 power plays (to our 1), and they won the review on the offside.  

Lets see how this road trip shakes out.  

 

Blaming the officials is really weak. I'm not on board with that at all. 

I would counter that while yes, I am negative, I've been abused by this team for 13 years and so I'm not very forgiving, but you are far too excuse oriented and most definitely forgiving. 

The goaltending has been average at best. Not as good as last year.

The defense is the same as last year. Moves the puck well but cracks under pressure, gets disorganized chasing the puck and breaks down in front of our net.

The top line is good offensively but a liability defensively. This is not uncommon in the league so it's fine. Could be better but acceptable if they score. 

The 2nd line is a complete disaster. Nobody on that line playing well at all. 

The 3rd line is solid and a fairly competent NHL line. Oh look, it's least "Sabres" line on the team. There's something to consider. 

The 4th line underwhelms. Nothing horrific but really no impact and they do not change the momentum like they were billed to be the line for. Not a complete liability but no impact either. 

PP is garbage. Same as last year. It simply doesn't work as is. 

PK is inconsistent and thus mediocre. 

There is nobody to call up or slot in that can make a difference at this stage of their careers.

That's the Sabres. Top 10 draft pick coming again. Adams will be fired. Forten will be elevated. Ruff will get another year (probably). That is how it all looks to me right now and yes, that makes me cynical, angry even, but mostly just sad. 

[JP51]

38 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think Ruff has the right ideas and is telling them to do what it takes but the question of how many of them are "ruined" is up for debate. It may take a lot longer to fix them than we had hoped. Years even. Hard to say, but many of them definitely need fixing. 

This situation comes from not having a proper youngster/veteran mix over the years and Adams "grow together" all youth team has a much harder time building a winning culture from scratch. It does, of course, start with the tank. The rest from there is on Pegula's approach and meddling. 

I dont disagree and Lindy is  great I have liked him since his playing days... he always brought the right focus... but he isnt a magician and cannot counter act multiple decades of ineptitude in a season especially with an inherited roster. Adams covets and drafts the wrong players and is ill equipped to structure a team to make the playoffs let alone compete in them. God help this team if they ever make the playoffs in its current construction... 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Blaming the officials is really weak. I'm not on board with that at all. 

I would counter that while yes, I am negative, I've been abused by this team for 13 years and so I'm not very forgiving, but you are far too excuse oriented and most definitely forgiving. 

The goaltending has been average at best. Not as good as last year.

The defense is the same as last year. Moves the puck well but cracks under pressure, gets disorganized chasing the puck and breaks down in front of our net.

The top line is good offensively but a liability defensively. This is not uncommon in the league so it's fine. Could be better but acceptable if they score. 

The 2nd line is a complete disaster. Nobody on that line playing well at all. 

The 3rd line is solid and a fairly competent NHL line. Oh look, it's least "Sabres" line on the team. There's something to consider. 

The 4th line underwhelms. Nothing horrific but really no impact and they do not change the momentum like they were billed to be the line for. Not a complete liability but no impact either. 

PP is garbage. Same as last year. It simply doesn't work as is. 

PK is inconsistent and thus mediocre. 

There is nobody to call up or slot in that can make a difference at this stage of their careers.

That's the Sabres. Top 10 draft pick coming again. Adams will be fired. Forten will be elevated. Ruff will get another year (probably). That is how it all looks to me right now and yes, that makes me cynical, angry even, but mostly just sad. 

That game was poorly officiated but I am not blaming them.   The Sabres did it to themselves.  

The rest of your diatribe is your own business.  I will give Ruff more than 5 games.