Would you be happy if Pegula sold the team?

[mjd1001]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/20/cnbc-official-nhl-team-valuations-2024.html

Toronto $4 Billon, Rangers$3.5b, Montreal $3.1b, Kings $2.85b, Bruins $2.75 most valuable teams.

Least Valuable?  Columbus at $1b.  Sabres are 3rd least valuable at $1.15

Top teams (top 4) all at over $300m in revenue per year. Buffalo listed at $169m in revenue. 

EBIDTA, 3 teams showed a loss (Columbus, Utah, San Jose).  Buffalo was a small positive there at $15.8m. Top teams all over $100m EBIDTA, Edmonton actually tops in the league at $156m

Sabres have one of the lowest debt ratios at 4%.

Edited Wednesday at 01:55 PM by mjd1001

[Jorcus]

1 hour ago, EM88 said:

Golisano is a good example.  Corporate ownership is another.  Look to the north to Toronto for how the Leafs are run, or the Raptors or Blue Jays.

They may not be good enough to win a championship. But that type of ownership does exist and it functions in a way to spend enough money to insure the team is good enough to make money. And dips or drawbacks in spending are very temporary.

 

It's a good point, I guess you could look at the Jacobs family as another example for Boston. On the negative side you have Montreal owned by the Molson Family. It's not like they don't fund the team or try, it just isn't working right now. The other thing is the corporate owners tend to be in the larger markets where they can co brand with what ever else they are doing. I don't know if there is that much corporate interest in small market teams, but of course everything will sell at a price.

[7+6=13]

5 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

The truth is never easy. 😂

That's not the wack part.  We've sucked is true.

Having the opinion that selling the team, even if it means them leaving Buffalo, is disgusting.  Try and keep up.  I shouldn't have to explain that to you and your minions.

[LabattBlue]

37 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

That's not the wack part.  We've sucked is true.

Having the opinion that selling the team, even if it means them leaving Buffalo, is disgusting.  Try and keep up.  I shouldn't have to explain that to you and your minions.

Truth…Buffalo would be better off without a team versus what we have now…Pegula ownership.  Try and keep up. 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, 7+6=13 said:

That's not the wack part.  We've sucked is true.

Having the opinion that selling the team, even if it means them leaving Buffalo, is disgusting.  Try and keep up.  I shouldn't have to explain that to you and your minions.

I don’t see a functional difference between what we have at this moment and not having a team in Buffalo.

THAT is the disgusting part.

[thewookie1]

10 minutes ago, Weave said:

I don’t see a functional difference between what we have at this moment and not having a team in Buffalo.

THAT is the disgusting part.

No there is a major difference regardless if you wish to see it or not.

A bad team, no matter how bad can still have good days and even good seasons.

No team, is just that, no team; you cannot have the happiness or even the chance of it.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

No there is a major difference regardless if you wish to see it or not.

A bad team, no matter how bad can still have good days and even good seasons.

No team, is just that, no team; you cannot have the happiness or even the chance of it.

The logic of Bane’s “open door” prison 

I kid. 

But seriously, that was the logic: the illusion of hope was the key aspect of the torture 

I think that’s where the “might as well sell” side comes from 

[7+6=13]

43 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Truth…Buffalo would be better off without a team versus what we have now…Pegula ownership.  Try and keep up. 

Shame on you bro

18 minutes ago, Weave said:

I don’t see a functional difference between what we have at this moment and not having a team in Buffalo.

THAT is the disgusting part.

Then you're just too selfish.

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Shame on you bro

Then you're just too selfish.

Some people need to keep the razors away from their noses.

[LTS]

1 hour ago, 7+6=13 said:

That's not the wack part.  We've sucked is true.

Having the opinion that selling the team, even if it means them leaving Buffalo, is disgusting.  Try and keep up.  I shouldn't have to explain that to you and your minions.

Having an opinion is everyone's right.
 

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Truth…Buffalo would be better off without a team versus what we have now…Pegula ownership.  Try and keep up. 

Having an opinion is everyone's right.
-----

Exploring this concept. I understand the desire to have a team in your hometown, but is that the sole reason anyone roots for them? Is that the reason anyone roots for any team?  I will admit that people being fans of a team that is in their hometown is likely more prevalent but there are plenty of people who do not live in the city and have never lived in the city in which a sports team they root for resides.  Does this make them unable to be fans?  Of course not.

What does it mean if the Sabres leave Buffalo?  Would you stop being a fan?  I think those who are fans of the team because of the shared connection to Buffalo might. But those who are no longer in Buffalo might not.  If you stopped being a fan of the Sabres would you become a fan of another team?  If you did, would the fact that you don't live in that city make you a lesser fan?

I think people have beliefs on how they would respond but I don't know that we are all confident that we'd hold to those if faced with the situation.

I did say in another thread that given the absolute joke the Sabres have become in the NHL under Pegula's ownership that the fact that they reside in Buffalo does not improve the image of the city at all.  People who tune into games and see half-empty arenas mock the fans, the club, and the city. How do I know? I only need to look at some of the threads here where people were mocking the Florida Panthers not too long ago for their pathetic attendance.

Buffalo is a city known for not winning. Until some franchise wins something it's a moniker that is going to stick. So, a team like the Sabres who move away from Buffalo will no longer be contributing to that image.

Still much better if they would just get good and end this ridiculous and unprecedented level of losing.

[LabattBlue]

40 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Some people need to keep the razors away from their noses.

Where Is Idemo?  The 3rd part of the super fan triumvirate?  
 

Their motto…Thou shalt crucify fans who dare to be critical.

 

😂. 

[Weave]

27 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Where Is Idemo?  The 3rd part of the super fan triumvirate?  
 

Their motto…Thou shalt crucify fans who dare to be critical.

 

😂. 

The shame Promo must feel for us to be part of the same fanbase.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Having an opinion is everyone's right.
 

Having an opinion is everyone's right.
-----

Exploring this concept. I understand the desire to have a team in your hometown, but is that the sole reason anyone roots for them? Is that the reason anyone roots for any team?  I will admit that people being fans of a team that is in their hometown is likely more prevalent but there are plenty of people who do not live in the city and have never lived in the city in which a sports team they root for resides.  Does this make them unable to be fans?  Of course not.

What does it mean if the Sabres leave Buffalo?  Would you stop being a fan?  I think those who are fans of the team because of the shared connection to Buffalo might. But those who are no longer in Buffalo might not.  If you stopped being a fan of the Sabres would you become a fan of another team?  If you did, would the fact that you don't live in that city make you a lesser fan?

I think people have beliefs on how they would respond but I don't know that we are all confident that we'd hold to those if faced with the situation.

I did say in another thread that given the absolute joke the Sabres have become in the NHL under Pegula's ownership that the fact that they reside in Buffalo does not improve the image of the city at all.  People who tune into games and see half-empty arenas mock the fans, the club, and the city. How do I know? I only need to look at some of the threads here where people were mocking the Florida Panthers not too long ago for their pathetic attendance.

Buffalo is a city known for not winning. Until some franchise wins something it's a moniker that is going to stick. So, a team like the Sabres who move away from Buffalo will no longer be contributing to that image.

Still much better if they would just get good and end this ridiculous and unprecedented level of losing.

 

I would feel terribly depressed because a large part of my desire to see the Sabres win the Cup stems from that they are in Buffalo and would bring an end to Buffalo's moniker of a loser city.

I was happy when the Blackhawks won their Cups and NY Giants won the Super Bowl twice because as my father's favorite team they fall into 2nd place but neither ever make me anywhere near as happy than if a Buffalo team pulled either off. The one exception is baseball; Buffalo never had a team so the SF Giants have always been my team and as such hold similar sway to the Sabres and Bills.

So for me, the fact we have a team in of itself is part of the basis to my fandom. To lose them would but a large hole in my heart that I doubt I'd ever recover. Plus I'd root for the leagues to fold just in spite. 

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Where Is Idemo?  The 3rd part of the super fan triumvirate?  
 

Their motto…Thou shalt crucify fans who dare to be critical.

 

😂. 

I wish you well personally and hope you and yours have a great Thanksgiving.  

I think what you said is a bit more than just being critical.  That's not really a fair assessment.

You said something extreme and kinda crazy and got met with equal opposition.  Definitely more than just, don't ever say anything bad about the Sabres or .....

[LTS]

3 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

 

I would feel terribly depressed because a large part of my desire to see the Sabres win the Cup stems from that they are in Buffalo and would bring an end to Buffalo's moniker of a loser city.

I was happy when the Blackhawks won their Cups and NY Giants won the Super Bowl twice because as my father's favorite team they fall into 2nd place but neither ever make me anywhere near as happy than if a Buffalo team pulled either off. The one exception is baseball; Buffalo never had a team so the SF Giants have always been my team and as such hold similar sway to the Sabres and Bills.

So for me, the fact we have a team in of itself is part of the basis to my fandom. To lose them would but a large hole in my heart that I doubt I'd ever recover. Plus I'd root for the leagues to fold just in spite. 

Love this response, thank you.  Would you feel less concerned about the Sabres if the Bills were to win the championship?  Do you like hockey more than football or is your fandom and support based on the teams themselves representing the city and through that you're a fan of the sport?  Curious as you mention you'd root for the NHL to fold if the Sabres left town which sounds like you care more about the team than the league itself.

I really feel like I shouldn't have to say it, but because this is the Internet I will.  Nothing above is me arguing with you, I am genuinely looking for your response to gain a better understanding. As I said, everyone has a right to their opinion and I want to understand yours.

Thanks!

 

[thewookie1]

11 hours ago, LTS said:

Love this response, thank you.  (1)Would you feel less concerned about the Sabres if the Bills were to win the championship?  (2)Do you like hockey more than football or is your fandom and support based on the teams themselves representing the city and through that you're a fan of the sport?  (3)Curious as you mention you'd root for the NHL to fold if the Sabres left town which sounds like you care more about the team than the league itself.

I really feel like I shouldn't have to say it, but because this is the Internet I will.  Nothing above is me arguing with you, I am genuinely looking for your response to gain a better understanding. As I said, everyone has a right to their opinion and I want to understand yours.

Thanks!

 

1. I'd be no less concerned about the team itself; but less concerned about Buffalo's moniker as a losing city. It would merely add comfort.

2. Hockey > Football, my loyalties come from a combination of location and familial ties. Love hockey, love to watch hockey

3. The NHL/NFL to me are large corporate entities that run the highest level of sports I like. If either league allowed our team to leave Buffalo I would forever hold that against the league itself. It comes from a combination of "Buffalo vs the World" mentality and I'm not above admitting pettiness. In actuality, I'd likely see my interest wane, depression set in and never quite get to any level of fandom with another team because without the "local" element; the communal attachment is completely lost. There's an inherent connection between Buffalonians, former-Buffalonians, and descendants of Buffalonians that is expressed through sports like little else. A connection that can cross all boundaries whether location, political, ancestry, etc. It's incredible how "Go Bills" has a similar meaning to "Aloha" does in Hawaiian while also relating to a football team. When the Sabres are good, similar aspects can be attributed to "Go Sabres," albeit to a lesser degree. 

I wasn't sure where to put this random thought, there is an inherent difference between the SF Giants winning a World Series and the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup because I'd be happy my favorite team won but there's more degrees of separation. A Sabres Cup win not only is my favorite team winning; but a win for the city in which I live and work. There'd be a parade in my "backyard." and the happiness would quite literally exude through the city for weeks if not months.

[LTS]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

1. I'd be no less concerned about the team itself; but less concerned about Buffalo's moniker as a losing city. It would merely add comfort.

2. Hockey > Football, my loyalties come from a combination of location and familial ties. Love hockey, love to watch hockey

3. The NHL/NFL to me are large corporate entities that run the highest level of sports I like. If either league allowed our team to leave Buffalo I would forever hold that against the league itself. It comes from a combination of "Buffalo vs the World" mentality and I'm not above admitting pettiness. In actuality, I'd likely see my interest wane, depression set in and never quite get to any level of fandom with another team because without the "local" element; the communal attachment is completely lost. There's an inherent connection between Buffalonians, former-Buffalonians, and descendants of Buffalonians that is expressed through sports like little else. A connection that can cross all boundaries whether location, political, ancestry, etc. It's incredible how "Go Bills" has a similar meaning to "Aloha" does in Hawaiian while also relating to a football team. When the Sabres are good, similar aspects can be attributed to "Go Sabres," albeit to a lesser degree. 

I wasn't sure where to put this random thought, there is an inherent difference between the SF Giants winning a World Series and the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup because I'd be happy my favorite team won but there's more degrees of separation. A Sabres Cup win not only is my favorite team winning; but a win for the city in which I live and work. There'd be a parade in my "backyard." and the happiness would quite literally exude through the city for weeks if not months.

Thank you.

 

[Jorcus]

On 11/20/2024 at 3:25 PM, LTS said:

Having an opinion is everyone's right.
 

Having an opinion is everyone's right.
-----

Exploring this concept. I understand the desire to have a team in your hometown, but is that the sole reason anyone roots for them? Is that the reason anyone roots for any team?  I will admit that people being fans of a team that is in their hometown is likely more prevalent but there are plenty of people who do not live in the city and have never lived in the city in which a sports team they root for resides.  Does this make them unable to be fans?  Of course not.

What does it mean if the Sabres leave Buffalo?  Would you stop being a fan?  I think those who are fans of the team because of the shared connection to Buffalo might. But those who are no longer in Buffalo might not.  If you stopped being a fan of the Sabres would you become a fan of another team?  If you did, would the fact that you don't live in that city make you a lesser fan?

I think people have beliefs on how they would respond but I don't know that we are all confident that we'd hold to those if faced with the situation.

I did say in another thread that given the absolute joke the Sabres have become in the NHL under Pegula's ownership that the fact that they reside in Buffalo does not improve the image of the city at all.  People who tune into games and see half-empty arenas mock the fans, the club, and the city. How do I know? I only need to look at some of the threads here where people were mocking the Florida Panthers not too long ago for their pathetic attendance.

Buffalo is a city known for not winning. Until some franchise wins something it's a moniker that is going to stick. So, a team like the Sabres who move away from Buffalo will no longer be contributing to that image.

Still much better if they would just get good and end this ridiculous and unprecedented level of losing.

 

My response to this would be I don't care what other cities think of this city if what they base it on is a losing hockey team. Having a team in this city is so much more valuable than one that is not here no matter how bad they are. A few things to consider.

First is the economic impact of having a team. Sure at times the home rink is not ours but the people coming to town to watch hockey is important for the city and without it, it's long winters without much to look forward to. Hockey fans seem to travel as well as any given night I watch a random game and the visiting crowds can be quite large. They certainly travel here because of the proximity to the golden horseshoe of Canada and they are not all leaf fans. 

Second is media attention. If the Sabres go away so does all local coverage which decreases interest and conversation in this area. There is now more personal investment in the team unless you just can't let go and follow them to the end of the earth. The bitterness of a team leaving is deep seated. I remember talking to Browns fans when they moved away. They were not going to become Ravens fans. I don't think Terry P. has any intention of ending up hated like Art Modell.

Third community engagement, A local team brings many benefits to an area. Local Charity work although sometimes just a player keeping up an image other players have done some amazing things for this area. Add to that the support for children's hockey and development programs that would be half of what they are if the Sabres were not in Buffalo. 

Last of all is personal contact with players and coaches. This is a small city and many people have had a chance to meet a player once in awhile. Many retired players still live around here. If the interaction was positive then it reinforces a bond to the team.

If someone had a crystal ball said the Sabres are moving to Hamilton and will contend for a cup 3 years from now I would go back to be a fan of the Rangers and hope they would bring up 10 Rempe's to crush them and throw them all under the Zamboni.  

  

Edited Thursday at 09:43 PM by Jorcus

[Weave]

26 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

 

My response to this would be I don't care what other cities think of this city if what they base it on is a losing hockey team. Having a team in this city is so much more valuable than one that is not here no matter how bad they are. A few things to consider.

First is the economic impact of having a team. Sure at times the home rink is not ours but the people coming to town to watch hockey is important for the city and without it it's long winters without much to look forward to. Hockey fans seem to travel as well as any given night I watch a random game and the visiting crowds can be quite large. They certainly travel here because of the proximity to the golden horseshoe of Canada and they are not all leaf fans. 

Second is media attention. If the Sabres go away so does all local coverage which decreases interest and conversation in this area. There is now more personal investment in the team unless you just can't let go and follow them to the end of the earth. The bitterness of a team leaving is deep seated. I remember talking to Browns fans when they moved away. They were not going to become Ravens fans. I don't think Terry P. has any intention of ending up hated like Art Modell.

Third community engagement, A local team brings many benefits to an area. Local Charity work although sometimes just a player keeping up an image other players have done some amazing things for this area. Add to that the support for children's hockey and development programs that would be half of what they are if the Sabres were not in Buffalo. 

Last of all is personal contact with players and coaches. This is a small city and many people have had a chance to meet a player once in awhile. Many retired players still live around here. If the interaction was positive then it reinforces a bond to the team.

If someone had a crystal ball said the Sabres are moving to Hamilton and will contend for a cup 3 years from now I would go back to be a fan of the Rangers and hope they would bring up 10 Rempe's to crush them and throw them all under the Zamboni.  

  

10 Rempe’s is a solid alt pop band name.

[steveoat87]

On 11/20/2024 at 3:25 PM, LTS said:

Having an opinion is everyone's right.
 

Having an opinion is everyone's right.
-----

Exploring this concept. I understand the desire to have a team in your hometown, but is that the sole reason anyone roots for them? Is that the reason anyone roots for any team?  I will admit that people being fans of a team that is in their hometown is likely more prevalent but there are plenty of people who do not live in the city and have never lived in the city in which a sports team they root for resides.  Does this make them unable to be fans?  Of course not.

What does it mean if the Sabres leave Buffalo?  Would you stop being a fan?  I think those who are fans of the team because of the shared connection to Buffalo might. But those who are no longer in Buffalo might not.  If you stopped being a fan of the Sabres would you become a fan of another team?  If you did, would the fact that you don't live in that city make you a lesser fan?

I think people have beliefs on how they would respond but I don't know that we are all confident that we'd hold to those if faced with the situation.

I did say in another thread that given the absolute joke the Sabres have become in the NHL under Pegula's ownership that the fact that they reside in Buffalo does not improve the image of the city at all.  People who tune into games and see half-empty arenas mock the fans, the club, and the city. How do I know? I only need to look at some of the threads here where people were mocking the Florida Panthers not too long ago for their pathetic attendance.

Buffalo is a city known for not winning. Until some franchise wins something it's a moniker that is going to stick. So, a team like the Sabres who move away from Buffalo will no longer be contributing to that image.

Still much better if they would just get good and end this ridiculous and unprecedented level of losing.

Home town is a big part of it to me.  I went to graduate school in Buffalo and worked afterwards for about 6 years.  I became a big Bills and hockey fan ( I was a Yankee fan and Knicks fan prior to this).  The economy was lousy and my wife was having trouble getting a good job.  So we went home to live in the New York City metro area.  I am still a big Bills fan and not as big, but still a Sabres fan.  If the Sabres moved to somewhere like San Antonio I doubt I would watch them.  It is the home connection that is meaningful to me.

Just now, steveoat87 said:

Home town is a big part of it to me.  I went to graduate school in Buffalo and worked afterwards for about 6 years.  I became a big Bills and hockey fan ( I was a Yankee fan and Knicks fan prior to this).  The economy was lousy and my wife was having trouble getting a good job.  So we went home to live in the New York City metro area.  I am still a big Bills fan and not as big, but still a Sabres fan.  If the Sabres moved to somewhere like San Antonio I doubt I would watch them.  It is the home connection that is meaningful to me.

I know a lot of people are angry.  But, it it better to have a team than no team.  You will never get it back when there are cities like San Antonio, Atlanta and Oklahoma City.

[Thorner]

13 minutes ago, steveoat87 said:

Home town is a big part of it to me.  I went to graduate school in Buffalo and worked afterwards for about 6 years.  I became a big Bills and hockey fan ( I was a Yankee fan and Knicks fan prior to this).  The economy was lousy and my wife was having trouble getting a good job.  So we went home to live in the New York City metro area.  I am still a big Bills fan and not as big, but still a Sabres fan.  If the Sabres moved to somewhere like San Antonio I doubt I would watch them.  It is the home connection that is meaningful to me.

I know a lot of people are angry.  But, it it better to have a team than no team.  You will never get it back when there are cities like San Antonio, Atlanta and Oklahoma City.

Never know. We got a team back here in Winnipeg when they said it would never happen 

[mjd1001]

If the Bills or the Sabres left Buffalo, would I watch less of the NHL and NFL?  Probably less, but not a lot less. 

But that might not be a bad thing for me.  Instead of watching what is often times a 'bad' team out of obligation because they are from the area that I am from...instead I might just pick and choose to watch the better teams play. The higher scoring teams play. The players I find exciting play.

So I do not want them to move, but if they did move, as a 'sports' fan there might be almost as many 'pluses' as 'minuses' for me personally.

[Weave]

40 minutes ago, steveoat87 said:

Home town is a big part of it to me.  I went to graduate school in Buffalo and worked afterwards for about 6 years.  I became a big Bills and hockey fan ( I was a Yankee fan and Knicks fan prior to this).  The economy was lousy and my wife was having trouble getting a good job.  So we went home to live in the New York City metro area.  I am still a big Bills fan and not as big, but still a Sabres fan.  If the Sabres moved to somewhere like San Antonio I doubt I would watch them.  It is the home connection that is meaningful to me.

I know a lot of people are angry.  But, it it better to have a team than no team.  You will never get it back when there are cities like San Antonio, Atlanta and Oklahoma City.

So, it was likely my response many pages back that sent this thread down its current path, so let’s review the context.

Thread title is, would you be happy if Pegula sold the team?

My answer: yes, of course.  I don’t see a downside.  Reason: Pegula has demonstrated that he is not capable of building a team that can be successful, as a result I no longer watch this team unless it is overly convenient for me to do so (ex. At a bar, TV showing the game).  As a result, the team in its current state is equivalent (to me) of Buffalo not having a team anyway.  So in my eyes there is no risk to Pegula selling the team.  He’s incompetent.  I barely watch.  Low risk, high reward i. My case.

 

Anywho, carry on my wayward son.

[Thorner]

15 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

If the Bills or the Sabres left Buffalo, would I watch less of the NHL and NFL?  Probably less, but not a lot less. 

But that might not be a bad thing for me.  Instead of watching what is often times a 'bad' team out of obligation because they are from the area that I am from...instead I might just pick and choose to watch the better teams play. The higher scoring teams play. The players I find exciting play.

So I do not want them to move, but if they did move, as a 'sports' fan there might be almost as many 'pluses' as 'minuses' for me personally.

This post touches on a lot of things.

I love this board, and the interactions it produces far more than the national hockey league product. I don’t really even watch it. I used to love it. I don’t even know if the Sabres killed it for me, or if the league killed the Sabres. Don’t really know which way is up.

My loyalty is to the crest. I don’t live in Buffalo, and never have, but if the Sabres left Buffalo there’d be no more hobby anymore. Because they are the BUFFALO Sabres.

The crest is a buffalo, between two sabres for jeepers sakes.

I can love them and i can hate them and sometimes that’s a very fine line but the sport would be barren, for me, without them 

Edited Thursday at 09:56 PM by Thorner

[nfreeman]

I vote no sale for 2 reasons:

- I don't think TP will move the team under any circumstances -- and I think any sale increases that likelihood from zero to at least 50%.  Others may be OK with that outcome, which is their right.  I am not OK with it.

- I think TP has tried and will continue to try to make the Sabres a contender.

The 2nd reason is the tricky one, as it's hard to reconcile that belief with the unavoidable fact of the Sabres being among the lowest-payroll teams for the past few years.  I do expect that to end as early as this summer, as I expect more fat extensions to go to guys like JJP, Byram and even Quinn if and when he starts to play better (which I think he will).  I also think that if Lindy gets them into the playoffs, which is reasonably likely, the Sabres will cease to be viewed as a NFW by free agents and will spend to bring in a couple of the right guys.

I also don't expect TP ever to let a key piece leave because he doesn't want to pay him, which, as many here will recall, has not been the case under previous owners.