Would you be happy if Pegula sold the team?

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, LTS said:

I don't even want to try and put these in order

• Turdburger
• ROR trade
• Everything about Jack Eichel
• Ralph Krueger
• Phil Housley
• Pat LaFontaine
• Tank Tank Tank
• "Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence, will be to win a Stanley Cup."
•  

The list goes on and on and on...

Failure to maximize available cap space, year after year..

[7+6=13]

57 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Failure to maximize available cap space, year after year..

How does a tainted team that players don't want to come to because of "Eichel's neck" do that?

You've got to stop saying both.

[inkman]

16 hours ago, Mustache of God said:

Would anyone be unhappy if he sold the team?

Well if he sells it to an owner who moves the team in 18 months, I might not be too happy.  

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, inkman said:

Well if he sells it to an owner who moves the team in 18 months, I might not be too happy.  

That would admittedly be my only opposition to a change of owner. Rightly or wrongly I just don’t ever see the team leaving, though, so it doesn’t play as much of a factor for me. 

 

23 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

How does a tainted team that players don't want to come to because of "Eichel's neck" do that?

You've got to stop saying both.

Nah, I don’t. Don’t know why multiple things being true at once is always such a bridge too far for people. Fatal flaws are able to be so, precisely because contextually there are other variables at play facilitating the emergence of tipping point decisions. Just because many players are soured on Buffalo doesn’t mean an absolute exists: to a skilled recruiter, perhaps the flaw wouldn’t be so fatal. But Adams is the antithesis of that. There are other markets far, far closer to us in undesirability (some even equal to us, if you believe player polls) than they are to our output in dealing with such. Players don’t want to play here in Winnipeg and they’ve made it 7 times since the Sabres have last. Pegula’s bad decisions compound on eachother. The disappointment is infuriating particularly *because* there have been (and continue to be) opportunities to u-turn along the way: a sense of hubris pervades almost the entire operation 

[Stoner]

There's no monopoly on hockey IQ.

[Pimlach]

14 hours ago, Thorner said:

Not sure if people are finally ready for this.

Terry Pegula and the Sabres’ fatal error was placing so much emphasis on the “return” for Jack Eichel. It doesn’t really matter if the Sabres were “in the right” or in the wrong, that was the part everyone missed, not if the perception around the league was going to be that they did poorly by their franchise player

Inexcusable Terry missed this b/c *that was our burden to bear* because we TANKED for Eichel. Placing 1 player above all else was *what they signed up for*. They made their bed in 2015 and thought they could avoid paying the piper. Are Tuch and Krebs worth the reputation hit?

You let him get the surgery because you have to. The fallout of denying that to the player you sold the very soul of your franchise to get, is well beyond any trade return that was ever possible

Pegula has made numerous “fatal errors”.  You don’t blow 13 years with one bad move.  This has been a comedy of errors and a case study on how NOT to run a hockey team.  

It started with his childish “reason for existence” speech.  It was really heightened by the misguided hirings of LaFontaine/Murray/Black and the band of disjointed strap hangers.  It peaked in the tank years with fans booing wins and Murray trading goalies that gave us any chance of winning.  They brought in bad actors and troublemakers to lead our young players.  They literally traded away every player that cared about the crest on the jersey.  It continued during the Eichel years when no players would come here.  Before the Eichel trade there was the O’Rielly trade.  A real hockey player tired of losing and Pegula demands his trade.  Pegula should have listened to what was being said, instead he forced a lopsided trade and watched ROR win a Cup and an MVP.  Pegula put his wife in charge and he gave us the hirings of Boterill, Housley, and let’s not forget the clueless Soccer Coach.   After that there were more firings, and the actual gutting of the rank and file employees, and the creation of bizarre EEE policies that only a stooge of a GM would follow.  Enter Adams, his band of prospects and $700k players - these kids know a lot about a lack of leadership and dysfunction.  

Then there was the coaching search that never really happened.  Some excellent coaches were out there that said “Buffalo never called me”.   Adam’s lied to us once again.    He talks playoffs and is $7M under the cap, saving money to pay more unproven prospects.  

Pegula has made so many errors that his dysfunction has now become normal.  
 

Edited October 6 by Pimlach

[Demoted]

Just need a good GM who can hire a good coach.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Pegula has made numerous “fatal errors”.  You don’t blow 13 years with one bad move.  This has been a comedy of errors and a case study on how NOT to run a hockey team.  

It started with his childish “reason for existence” speech.  It was really heightened by the misguided hirings of LaFontaine/Murray/Black and the band of disjointed strap hangers.  It peaked in the tank years with fans booing wins and Murray trading goalies that gave us any chance of winning.  They brought in bad actors and troublemakers to lead our young players.  They literally traded away every player that cared about the crest on the jersey.  It continued during the Eichel years when no players would come here.  Before the Eichel trade there was the O’Rielly trade.  A real hockey player tired of losing and Pegula demands his trade.  Pegula should have listened to what was being said, instead he forced a lopsided trade and watched ROR win a Cup and an MVP.  Pegula put his wife in charge and he gave us the hirings of Boterill, Housley, and let’s not forget the clueless Soccer Coach.   After that there were more firings, and the actual gutting of the rank and file employees, and the creation of bizarre EEE policies that only a stooge of a GM would follow.  Enter Adams, his band of prospects and $700k players - these kids know a lot about a lack of leadership and dysfunction.  

Then there was the coaching search that never really happened.  Some excellent coaches were out there that said “Buffalo never called me”.   Adam’s lied to us once again.    He talks playoffs and is $7M under the cap, saving money to pay more unproven prospects.  

Pegula has made so many errors that his dysfunction has now become normal.  
 

There isn't anything in your catalogue of bad decisions that I disagree with. I agree with you that the process of hiring LIndy was a sham. He was the designated hire that was made before the season ended last year. I did at the time criticize the phoniness of the search because there wasn't a real search. I agree with you that there were good coaches to consider. But it was a mirage that fooled no one but the most naive. I believe that Lindy was a good hire. He was an experienced veteran coach who would be more demanding in holding players accountable. That's what we were looking for, and what we got. Other than the phony hiring process that added to this organization and owner's severely diminished creditability it was a reasonable hire. (I'm aware that you are not saying otherwise.)

The Sabres lost two games on this foreign road trip to a more cohesive and better team. It's certainly disappointing but I'm not going to panic just yet. Let's just wait for at least 12 games or so to be played before we judge how good or bad this team is. Understandably, it's difficult to be patient with this team because of the history of this ignominious era. Too many people are already getting on the ledge and are jumping off. It's not popular to say here but let's be a little more patient before wanting to blow things up again. 

43 minutes ago, Demoted said:

Just need a good GM who can hire a good coach.

Why are you suggesting that the coach is the problem after two games?

Edited October 6 by JohnC

[Pimlach]

19 minutes ago, Demoted said:

Just need a good GM who can hire a good coach.

Amen.    This usually works doesn't it?  

With the current team and prospects that we have right now a good GM could make them competitive in ONE YEAR.  

[Kristian]

31 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Amen.    This usually works doesn't it?  

With the current team and prospects that we have right now a good GM could make them competitive in ONE YEAR.  

Sadly, I have zero faith in the idiot owner to :

a. Realise this.

b. Execute on this.

[Stoner]

He loves the Sabres. He is a huge fan... he had seasons in the Aud! He grew up a Sabres fan in Scranton.

I've challenged these notions (the last one was easy to disprove as Terry himself said he became a Sabres fan when he moved to Olean after college in 1975).

I came to the conclusion he is a fluid fan who has liked other teams (Pens are a no brainer). He was interested in the Sabres until he wasn't (he admitted he didn't know the Sabres were for sale after the Rigas crisis; tell me what kind of fan didn't know this was happening).

I also came to the conclusion he bought the Sabres to grease the skids on a Bills bid.

If there's any doubt left... how can you say you're a fan, that you love the team, and not admit you have destroyed it and someone else should step in?

Only arrogance explains it.

[Pimlach]

58 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There isn't anything in your catalogue of bad decisions that I disagree with. I agree with you that the process of hiring LIndy was a sham. He was the designated hire that was made before the season ended last year. I did at the time criticize the phoniness of the search because there wasn't a real search. I agree with you that there were good coaches to consider. But it was a mirage that fooled no one but the most naive. I believe that Lindy was a good hire. He was an experienced veteran coach who would be more demanding in holding players accountable. That's what we were looking for, and what we got. Other than the phony hiring process that added to this organization and owner's severely diminished creditability it was a reasonable hire. (I'm aware that you are not saying otherwise.)

The Sabres lost two games on this foreign road trip to a more cohesive and better team. It's certainly disappointing but I'm not going to panic just yet. Let's just wait for at least 12 games or so to be played before we judge how good or bad this team is. Understandably, it's difficult to be patient with this team because of the history of this ignominious era. Too many people are already getting on the ledge and are jumping off. It's not popular to say here but let's be a little more patient before wanting to blow things up again. 

 

I have no problem with Lindy Ruff.   He deserves our respect, he earned it with his play and with his coaching record.   

I have a problem with the Mickey Mouse way that Adams and Pegula run this franchise.   They lied about the "exhaustive coaching search" and stuff like that only leads to more lost credibility around the league. 

Adams solutions to roster building over 5 years has been frustrating, focusing on one thing at a time and missing the big picture.  Simply put, he fails to make the team better with his trades and moves. 

What has he done: 

1.  Traded vets, stockpiled draft picks, played young players that "want to be here"

2.  Develop young core, added more prospects, bring in no veteran "blockers",  got no legitimate goalie help

3.  Signs young unproven players to long term deals.   Teaches defense next year, signs a few lower tier F/As, watches the team regress after one promising season while being $20M under the cap -and admits it publicly.  

4.  Replaces coach with no coaching search.  Replaces bottom 6 with lower tier F/A's.  Does not address the loss of Mitts/Skinner in the top 6, starts the season $7M under the cap.  

During his watch he traded 2 very good centers in Eichel and Mitts and he drafted a bunch of centers, and still none of them are even close to Mitts in their overall game, let alone at the level of Eichel.  Eichel wanted out, and I suspect that TP wanted him out, so I get that.  But the Eichel thing left another big scar on the franchise.  He also blew the extensions on Reinhart (Stanley Cup) and Ullmark (Vezina).  

So if Ruff cannot fix this group what happens next year?   

Adams gets this season to make the playoffs.  If they fail, he should go.  

 

 

[steveoat87]

3 hours ago, Thorner said:

That would admittedly be my only opposition to a change of owner. Rightly or wrongly I just don’t ever see the team leaving, though, so it doesn’t play as much of a factor for me. 

 

Nah, I don’t. Don’t know why multiple things being true at once is always such a bridge too far for people. Fatal flaws are able to be so, precisely because contextually there are other variables at play facilitating the emergence of tipping point decisions. Just because many players are soured on Buffalo doesn’t mean an absolute exists: to a skilled recruiter, perhaps the flaw wouldn’t be so fatal. But Adams is the antithesis of that. There are other markets far, far closer to us in undesirability (some even equal to us, if you believe player polls) than they are to our output in dealing with such. Players don’t want to play here in Winnipeg and they’ve made it 7 times since the Sabres have last. Pegula’s bad decisions compound on eachother. The disappointment is infuriating particularly *because* there have been (and continue to be) opportunities to u-turn along the way: a sense of hubris pervades almost the entire operation 

I think there is a very good chance a new owner would move the team to a more lucrative media market.  Unless the owner commits to staying in Buffalo

[Goldseatsaud]

I’m fine with him selling. The franchise seems to be spinning its wheels.

[Stoner]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I have no problem with Lindy Ruff.   He deserves our respect, he earned it with his play and with his coaching record.   

I have a problem with the Mickey Mouse way that Adams and Pegula run this franchise.   They lied about the "exhaustive coaching search" and stuff like that only leads to more lost credibility around the league. 

Adams solutions to roster building over 5 years has been frustrating, focusing on one thing at a time and missing the big picture.  Simply put, he fails to make the team better with his trades and moves. 

What has he done: 

1.  Traded vets, stockpiled draft picks, played young players that "want to be here"

2.  Develop young core, added more prospects, bring in no veteran "blockers",  got no legitimate goalie help

3.  Signs young unproven players to long term deals.   Teaches defense next year, signs a few lower tier F/As, watches the team regress after one promising season while being $20M under the cap -and admits it publicly.  

4.  Replaces coach with no coaching search.  Replaces bottom 6 with lower tier F/A's.  Does not address the loss of Mitts/Skinner in the top 6, starts the season $7M under the cap.  

During his watch he traded 2 very good centers in Eichel and Mitts and he drafted a bunch of centers, and still none of them are even close to Mitts in their overall game, let alone at the level of Eichel.  Eichel wanted out, and I suspect that TP wanted him out, so I get that.  But the Eichel thing left another big scar on the franchise.  He also blew the extensions on Reinhart (Stanley Cup) and Ullmark (Vezina).  

So if Ruff cannot fix this group what happens next year?   

Adams gets this season to make the playoffs.  If they fail, he should go.  

 

 

How handcuffed is he by E to the 3? And why does he like to be handcuffed? Just to be an NHL GM?

[Goldseatsaud]

Why does Boston always have a real good team l ? Players come and go. The type of players that are drafted that fits their style. What is the Sabres style finesse. 

[Kruppstahl]

Happy?  No.

Ecstatic?  Yes.

 

 

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, Stoner said:

How handcuffed is he by E to the 3? And why does he like to be handcuffed? Just to be an NHL GM?

He is only $7M under the cap so that part of EEE is finally fading away.  That $7M will go toward keeping our current young talent though, Peterka, Quinn, Byram, … 

What is TP willing to pay a coaching staff and his FO?  That is another part of it that we don’t see, and he is still paying Granato too.   

Why does Adams accept the situation?   He has no choice.  Boterill quit but I can’t see Adams doing that.  
 

 

[Kristian]

17 minutes ago, Goldseatsaud said:

Why does Boston always have a real good team l ? Players come and go. The type of players that are drafted that fits their style. What is the Sabres style finesse. 

If only.

The Sabres style is, finesse, soft and lazy. Terrible mix.

[steveoat87]

My feeling is that the best way out of this is if someone (maybe Ruff, maybe his kids) could convince Terry that he needs to hire a head of hockey operations over Adams and Lindy who makes the best decisions for the organization.  Most likely that person will get rid of Adams and Lindy and bring in his own people.  I wish Terry would hire a consultant to show him where the problem(s) lie and maybe that would convince him to make that kind of change.

[Stoner]

1 minute ago, steveoat87 said:

My feeling is that the best way out of this is if someone (maybe Ruff, maybe his kids) could convince Terry that he needs to hire a head of hockey operations over Adams and Lindy who makes the best decisions for the organization.  Most likely that person will get rid of Adams and Lindy and bring in his own people.  I wish Terry would hire a consultant to show him where the problem(s) lie and maybe that would convince him to make that kind of change.

Terry has to hire the consultant. It's a vicious cycle. Or a Catch 22. One of them things.

[steveoat87]

11 minutes ago, Stoner said:

Terry has to hire the consultant. It's a vicious cycle. Or a Catch 22. One of them things.

Not really.  Large companies do this all the time.  Its not difficult to find out who the best consultants are, get bids and then pick one.  That is, rational, non-emotional companies do this all the time.

[Stoner]

16 minutes ago, steveoat87 said:

Not really.  Large companies do this all the time.  Its not difficult to find out who the best consultants are, get bids and then pick one.  That is, rational, non-emotional companies do this all the time.

He is the company tho. He'd have to tell CEO Pete to do it. But he hired Pete.

[eman]

Absolutely. How many more seasons do you want to give T-Pegs in hoping he finally comes up with the right mixture to make this club successful once again? Sell it to an owner who actually goes to the games and gives a ####! One who is smart enough to set up your front office with experienced hockey  people and an experienced GM for the love of God. I don't fear the team will move under new ownership as I feel Bettman and the league won't allow it. The fan base is incredibly strong in Western NY and across the border. It's just that they have been mistreated for 13 (hopefully not 14!!!!!) seasons that apathy has set in. The fire could return instantly with a promising turnaround that has yet to become reality. Plenty of money can be generated out of Western NY if you could build a competitive and entertaining hockey club.

 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I have no problem with Lindy Ruff.   He deserves our respect, he earned it with his play and with his coaching record.   

I have a problem with the Mickey Mouse way that Adams and Pegula run this franchise.   They lied about the "exhaustive coaching search" and stuff like that only leads to more lost credibility around the league. 

Adams solutions to roster building over 5 years has been frustrating, focusing on one thing at a time and missing the big picture.  Simply put, he fails to make the team better with his trades and moves. 

What has he done: 

1.  Traded vets, stockpiled draft picks, played young players that "want to be here"

2.  Develop young core, added more prospects, bring in no veteran "blockers",  got no legitimate goalie help

3.  Signs young unproven players to long term deals.   Teaches defense next year, signs a few lower tier F/As, watches the team regress after one promising season while being $20M under the cap -and admits it publicly.  

4.  Replaces coach with no coaching search.  Replaces bottom 6 with lower tier F/A's.  Does not address the loss of Mitts/Skinner in the top 6, starts the season $7M under the cap.  

During his watch he traded 2 very good centers in Eichel and Mitts and he drafted a bunch of centers, and still none of them are even close to Mitts in their overall game, let alone at the level of Eichel.  Eichel wanted out, and I suspect that TP wanted him out, so I get that.  But the Eichel thing left another big scar on the franchise.  He also blew the extensions on Reinhart (Stanley Cup) and Ullmark (Vezina).  

So if Ruff cannot fix this group what happens next year?   

Adams gets this season to make the playoffs.  If they fail, he should go.  

 

 

You and I are riding the same bus. KA was a cheap and non-threatening hire for the owner. The owner got what he wanted with KA's hire, a congenial person he extracted from the business side of the operation. That in itself tells you a lot about the owner's hockey adroitness. 

I like you thought this GM's aversion to Mitts was peculiar. Here was a versatile player who was developed in the system and could play center or forward on our top two lines. The player's agent let it be known that the organization never even made an offer. To put it mildly, perplexing. 

With respect to your frightening question of what happens to this roster if it can't be made to congeal into a competitive team? Fan fatigue and apathy and plenty of empty seats in the arena. That would be so sad. 

It is the accumulation of a lot of bad personnel decisions that has weighed this franchise down into the muck of mediocrity. As you point out, we actually had the talent to build a serious roster. It was the organization's dysfunction that resulted in our own talent fleeing out of here. And inarguably it benefited all the players who thrived in the better situations they went to.