Is Tage Thompson a top 15 center in the NHL?

[DarthEbriate]

On 9/28/2024 at 9:14 AM, dudacek said:

Tage has started slow in each of the past 3 years. Be nice if that changes.

It hasn't changed. Starts of season, after All-Star Game breaks, and returning from injury... he's always a bit slow. This year? Yikes. And he's had some good looks.

 

Also, I don't want this to become a game-by-game thing, but following my one-game/one-series, no contract, no grind of a season conditions, both lineups mirror each other except for the center. One game decides all, do you take old man Kopitar or Thompson?

[mjd1001]

32 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

It hasn't changed. Starts of season, after All-Star Game breaks, and returning from injury... he's always a bit slow. This year? Yikes. And he's had some good looks.

 

Also, I don't want this to become a game-by-game thing, but following my one-game/one-series, no contract, no grind of a season conditions, both lineups mirror each other except for the center. One game decides all, do you take old man Kopitar or Thompson?

Well, it is kinda early to be comparing things from year to year with only 3 games played, but since it was brough up, here goes:

This year, 3 games 1 goal:  0 assists, 11 shots

Last year through 3 games:  0 goals, 0 assists, 12 shots

2022-23 through 3 games: 1 goal, 0 assists, 6 shots

2021-22 through 3 games: 2 goals, 0 assists, 12 shots.

So, again, 3 games is early but he is pretty much tracking his recent career pace.

Take that for what its worth. I really try not to make too much of a judgement on a single player, other than if your top scoreres, as a group, would score, you wouldn't be 0-3.  Tage is part of that group.

Edited October 12 by mjd1001

[mjd1001]

On 9/28/2024 at 12:14 PM, dudacek said:

Tage has started slow in each of the past 3 years. Be nice if that changes.

He’s looked very..self-possessed? ..in the preseason. Controlled, business-like and capable.

I’ve made no secret of the fact I think this guy is a pro - a shut-up-and-get-it-done son of an old school minor-league player turned coach, with a proven history of over-coming adversity. The tools are obvious.

I think he’s going to bounce back quite nicely.

He's going to come around.  He's an easy target to pick on but he's the teams best offensive player.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Thompson is a one trick pony.  His shot.  He is a huge overpaid version of Olofsson.  I know this comment will piss some people off, but tell me what he’s done so far this season.  He isn’t making his linemates better.  He isn’t playmaking.  He isn’t getting back defensively and doesn’t engage physically despite his size. 

They are still trying to flow the PP for his shot and it’s not working.  

At least he’s better than Cozens.

Edited October 13 by GASabresIUFAN

[PerreaultForever]

He's on a 40 goal pace (roughly speaking)

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

He's on a 40 goal pace (roughly speaking)

With zero assists and -2.  

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

With zero assists and -2.  

True, but save that for a losing night 🙂

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

True, but save that for a losing night 🙂

 

The only play he made tonight was the shot he put past a shaky goalie.  Any decent goalie would have made the save.

[mjd1001]

He looked like a top 15 center today. The goal, controlled the puck, seemed confident that he could do what he want with the puck when he wanted it.

Yeah, its only one good game where he looked like that (he kinda did against the kings) but lets see if he can keep it up.

Its just so early. Austin Matthews has not played 3 games, no goals, no assists, 15 shots, 0% shooting percentage...but no one is worried about him.  I know Thompson is not Matthews, but again, we need a little more sample size.

Edited October 13 by mjd1001

[Jorcus]

Thompson is playing much better than he was at the start of last year. He is skating much better now than he was then. He is also passing more rather than trying to stick handle his way out of a jam. There is hope he will get back to what he was. 

[Noacls]

13 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Thompson is a one trick pony.  His shot.  He is a huge overpaid version of Olofsson.  I know this comment will piss some people off, but tell me what he’s done so far this season.  He isn’t making his linemates better.  He isn’t playmaking.  He isn’t getting back defensively and doesn’t engage physically despite his size. 

They are still trying to flow the PP for his shot and it’s not working.  

At least he’s better than Cozens.

Got paid! Now he needs a heart transplant!

[mjd1001]

15 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Thompson is a one trick pony.  His shot.  He is a huge overpaid version of Olofsson.  I know this comment will piss some people off, but tell me what he’s done so far this season.  He isn’t making his linemates better.  He isn’t playmaking.  He isn’t getting back defensively and doesn’t engage physically despite his size. 

They are still trying to flow the PP for his shot and it’s not working.  

At least he’s better than Cozens.

I have Problems with a lot of the bolded.

-He doesn't engage?  a player like him sometimes is better not engaging. I have made the analogy before, but playing without the puck in the NHL is like being a DB in football, you can be great at man-to-man or you can be great at zone. Thompson covers a lot of ground just being in opposing passing lanes.  When someone plays great zone coverage in the NFL, you don't usually notice it because by its nature, zone coverage is meant to prevent throws from being made. Not only does Thompson have the ability to play the NHL version of 'great' zone coverage. He actually does. When he is used on the PK and the Sabres hold the PK box together you can see how effective he is. Also, I don't always notice it when I am watching a game live, but when I rewatch the broadcast, I know what is going to happen so I tend to focus on individual players, and you can see Thompson is very aware of what position he is in defensively and often times the opposing team chooses to not pass o skate toward him.

I'm not just saying it, actually isolate on him when you rewatch a game. Due to this size/reach AND his willingness to play a sound positional game, he is one of the most effect players when the other team has the puck. Its there. Watch it.

-Secondly the 'doesn't get back 'thing simply isn't true.  Technically it may be at times. The first goal allowed he was caught up the ice, but when you have your top center, you WANT him in the offensive zone and he is going to get caught up the ice some times. It happens to McDavid, Matthews, and yes, watching the playoffs last year, for all the 'effort' we hear McKinnon puts in, he was the last one back in the defensive zone quite a bit.

But besides that, he DOES get back alot, you can see it. In defensive zone coverage he stays in the center of the ice and will drop down, sometimes below the faceoff dots, when the other team collapses on the net.  I just went to NHL.com and watched part of their 'condensed game' and the first 2 times I saw Tage in the defensive zone, he was in the middle of the ice, and once the Panthers collapsed down toward the net he went right there with them.  Look at 2:15 in the condensed game for one example, he 'gets back' and does EXACTLY what you want a forward backchecking to do. Now watch the replay of the game live an focus on him.  He gets back most of the time, trailing the puck slightly to maintain coverage in the slot.  Again, Not even using deep analytics here, but you can see he gets back on turnovers often, and when he does, he is where he is supposed to be. 

As far as not making his linemates better, well,  Tuch has had his career years with Tage.  Skinner had his over-30-year-old bounce back seasons when paired with Tage.  The only measurable metric I can think of to see if he is contributing offensively to making his teammates better is to look at the ratio between primary assist and secondary assists (primary in general being you are more involved the the goal scored, while secondary in many/most cases is a bit more 'noise'. 61.3% of his assits are primary, not secondary assists so not only is he above that 50% line that you want to be, he also has 1.25 per 60 since he became a center, better than anyone else on this team by far (Cozens is below 1)

Again, if you watch the game and watch him in isolation you will see the things I said above are true. The fact that the WAY he plays without the puck makes him so effective (Zone defense, remember), makes him the opposite of a 'one trick pony'.

I don't like deep analytic stats that much. Personally I like a combo of the 'basic stats' with the 'eye test', but if you dig into some of the moderately deep analytics through just 4 games, Tage is excelling at most of them.  His NHL edge overview (measuring skating, speed, shot power, goals. offensive zone possession) are all at elite levels through 4 games. Puck zone time when he is on the ice is at the 84th percentile, better than his linemates and better than the 2nd line (Cozens). The primary reason it seems he has no assists yet (through just 4 games) is one winger with him either got hurt or has been playing hurt the whole time (Peterka and Benson) and the other (Tuch) hasn't yet converted on any direct passes from Tage yet.

I'm not sure, other than ONE time a goal was allowed, how you can make a blanket statement that he isn't getting back defensively.  Most of the time he is, and he does.

Edited October 13 by mjd1001

[JoeSchmoe]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Thompson is a one trick pony.  His shot.  He is a huge overpaid version of Olofsson.  I know this comment will piss some people off, but tell me what he’s done so far this season.  He isn’t making his linemates better.  He isn’t playmaking.  He isn’t getting back defensively and doesn’t engage physically despite his size. 

They are still trying to flow the PP for his shot and it’s not working.  

At least he’s better than Cozens.

Thompson has pretty sick hands too when he's on his game.

[JP51]

No

[mjd1001]

So through 9 games, 7 goals and 11 points.

No sarcasm here at all with this question....anyone who think he isn't in (or close to) the top 15 change their mind?

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

So through 9 games, 7 goals and 11 points.

No sarcasm here at all with this question....anyone who think he isn't in (or close to) the top 15 change their mind?

He's either 1st or tied for 1st in even strength goals. 

[Archie Lee]

Playing at a 100 pt pace after today. We are getting legit 1st line production from Thompson, Tuch, Peterka.  

[HOUSE]

Oh sure,he scores two goals and you guys bump, happens every year..

[Pimlach]

52 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

So through 9 games, 7 goals and 11 points.

No sarcasm here at all with this question....anyone who think he isn't in (or close to) the top 15 change their mind?

Happy to see it.   He is more physical so far this season.   Playing with more purpose.  

He has been know to get flat and cold.  So I will be even happier to see him be consistent and stay among the league scoring leaders.  

I think he can do it and show us that last year was an off year, and the two prior ones are the norm.  

[EM88]

7 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Oh sure,he scores two goals and you guys bump, happens every year..

Happens every year?  I know I'm new to posting here. But your post looks like someone who just is taking the other side of the argument and wants to look clever with your response.

[HOUSE]

3 minutes ago, EM88 said:

Happens every year?  I know I'm new to posting here. But your post looks like someone who just is taking the other side of the argument and wants to look clever with your response.

It was a joke, geeez, you must be new 

[mjd1001]

4 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

It was a joke, geeez, you must be new 

To me it doesn't look like a joke either. It looks like somebody who doesn't like what's getting said.... And that's your cute way to dismiss the other side of the argument. 

I agree with the new guy.

[JustOneParade]

Nope. You guys just don’t understand @HOUSE’s sense of humor.

[HOUSE]

Just now, JustOneParade said:

Nope. You guys just don’t understand @HOUSE’s sense of humor.

Thank you 

 

7 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

To me it doesn't look like a joke either. It looks like somebody who doesn't like what's getting said.... And that's your cute way to dismiss the other side of the argument. 

I agree with the new guy.

This is a tuff day...lol

[JustOneParade]

Can you imagine if the Sabres had lost this afternoon? 🫣