Around the NHL: 2024-2025 Season

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

I will throw something out there as a possibility...

I remember when the Sabres were trying to move on from Ristolainen. Rumor (strong rumor from multiple sources) said the Sabres had a trade worked out for him (maybe it was Winnipeg??), maybe more than 1 with more than one team, where a trade was 'close' to happening, and then as it got closer and closer, the analytics dept. of those other teams got involved and said "No Way!".   I know it was discussed on this forum.

Basically, the traditional scouts and hockey guys wanted him, they saw the size, the skill, the raw ability, but as the trade got closer, the deeper dive into his game came up with the 'mental flaws' in his game.

Maybe the same things is happening with Cozens? A lot of teams are interested on the surface. They GM's and traditional 'hockey guys" scout him and see the raw ability. Its only when the trade gets closer, they do a deep dive into his film, his tendencies, his analytics, they cool down on him. And that is why there are so many rumors but so little movement with him?

The raw skills are there, I think he lacks hockey IQ and these trade rumours have sucked some energy out of him.

[EM88]

2 minutes ago, French Collection said:

The raw skills are there, I think he lacks hockey IQ and these trade rumours have sucked some energy out of him.

What are the raw skills anyway?

He is an above average skater as far as speed. But yet he can be clumsy on his skates in traffic.

His shot looks good, maybe his release, but it is pretty inaccurate and he's not blasting 100mph shots.

He is 6'3" tall, but well under 200 lbs. He is willing to hit, but he's not laying out people and lets not even talk about his fighting.

He does not stick handle well, losing the puck in traffic quite a bit. He does not have the willingness or the ability to block shots. He does not sense open linemates and certainly is not a master of stick to stick passes.

Many people on this board talk about his raw skill and talent, even those who don't like him cite his raw talent.  But other than 1 or two areas out of many (above average straight line speed and 6'3 tall), where is the excess of raw talent he has that is just waiting to be harnessed?

[kas23]

10 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I will throw something out there as a possibility...

I remember when the Sabres were trying to move on from Ristolainen. Rumor (strong rumor from multiple sources) said the Sabres had a trade worked out for him (maybe it was Winnipeg??), maybe more than 1 with more than one team, where a trade was 'close' to happening, and then as it got closer and closer, the analytics dept. of those other teams got involved and said "No Way!".   I know it was discussed on this forum.

Basically, the traditional scouts and hockey guys wanted him, they saw the size, the skill, the raw ability, but as the trade got closer, the deeper dive into his game came up with the 'mental flaws' in his game.

Maybe the same things is happening with Cozens? A lot of teams are interested on the surface. They GM's and traditional 'hockey guys" scout him and see the raw ability. Its only when the trade gets closer, they do a deep dive into his film, his tendencies, his analytics, they cool down on him. And that is why there are so many rumors but so little movement with him?

I believe the trade was Risto for Ehlers, but Botterill didn’t want to throw in a 3rd or a 4th to sweeten it. Sorry for ruining your day. 

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, kas23 said:

I believe the trade was Risto for Ehlers, but Botterill didn’t want to throw in a 3rd or a 4th to sweeten it. Sorry for ruining your day. 

I'm not sure how you are ruining my day. It was not only discussed on this forum but some of the 'so called' insiders on talk radio out of Toronto discussed a trade with Risto (maybe it was this one or a different one) that at the last minute other team pulled out of the trade due to 'changing their mind' on wanting him.

[kas23]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm not sure how you are ruining my day. It was not only discussed on this forum but some of the 'so called' insiders on talk radio out of Toronto discussed a trade with Risto (maybe it was this one or a different one) that at the last minute other team pulled out of the trade due to 'changing their mind' on wanting him.

I think you took this the wrong way. I meant that knowing Botterill nixing this trade for this reason would make any Sabres fan sad. 

[JohnC]

On 2/6/2025 at 6:52 AM, Weave said:

I’ve said it before, every player on this roster would fit in, and do acceptably well on good playoff teams because they would be properly supported.  Unfortunately, none of the players on this roster are properly supported, and are in a very challenging environment to truly shine.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Cozens bloom in a good environment.  But this ain’t it, unfortunately.

I'm with you that in a better situation Cozens would most like be a more productive player. That's one of my main criticisms for this misguided organization. There is nothing unusual about rebuilding with young players. However, unless given the support while being subjected to a tough rebuilding process, the young players aren't going to develop as well as they should.  

Right now, Cozens and Samuelsson are the targets of scorn by many here. If both players ended up on a more competently run franchise, they would not necessarily flourish but would not be struggling so much.  

It's too late this season but in the offseason the front office needs to focus on adding a few good veteran players rather than dispatching some of our young players that were counted on to be part of the roster. 

[mjd1001]

41 minutes ago, EM88 said:

What are the raw skills anyway?

He is an above average skater as far as speed. But yet he can be clumsy on his skates in traffic.

His shot looks good, maybe his release, but it is pretty inaccurate and he's not blasting 100mph shots.

He is 6'3" tall, but well under 200 lbs. He is willing to hit, but he's not laying out people and lets not even talk about his fighting.

He does not stick handle well, losing the puck in traffic quite a bit. He does not have the willingness or the ability to block shots. He does not sense open linemates and certainly is not a master of stick to stick passes.

Many people on this board talk about his raw skill and talent, even those who don't like him cite his raw talent.  But other than 1 or two areas out of many (above average straight line speed and 6'3 tall), where is the excess of raw talent he has that is just waiting to be harnessed?

Raw talent:

-1 stretch of 17 game in a 330+ game career where he scored 10 goals which helped make him a '30 goal scorer' = Raw talent

-Drafted in the top 10. Even though probably less than 50% of top 10 picks become stars, he was a top 10 pick. = Raw talent

-6'3 and is willing to face wash a guy occasionaly.  He may never be over 200 lbs and able to stay on his feet after he even throws hits but that height. = Raw talent

-His shot looks good. More likely to hit the boards or the center of the goalie's chest than pick a corner, but his motion looks good! = Raw talent

-You can see his top speed is above average.  Not a burner, he can't stick handle at top speed, and he trips over his own skates, but that speed! = Raw talent

Not just with Cozens....but with most players, us as fans tend to look at the absolute Ceiling and imagine that is the norm.  Score 30 goals once? You can and should be a 30 goal scorer all the time.  Make a great pass one time? Its not luck, it proves you have it in you!  Its what we do with a lot of players.

When a player has 'first round pedigree', we tend to hold onto those things even longer.

[freester]

Cozens is a slightly better Girgensons. 

[PerreaultForever]

11 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I will throw something out there as a possibility...

I remember when the Sabres were trying to move on from Ristolainen. Rumor (strong rumor from multiple sources) said the Sabres had a trade worked out for him (maybe it was Winnipeg??), maybe more than 1 with more than one team, where a trade was 'close' to happening, and then as it got closer and closer, the analytics dept. of those other teams got involved and said "No Way!".   I know it was discussed on this forum.

Basically, the traditional scouts and hockey guys wanted him, they saw the size, the skill, the raw ability, but as the trade got closer, the deeper dive into his game came up with the 'mental flaws' in his game.

Maybe the same things is happening with Cozens? A lot of teams are interested on the surface. They GM's and traditional 'hockey guys" scout him and see the raw ability. Its only when the trade gets closer, they do a deep dive into his film, his tendencies, his analytics, they cool down on him. And that is why there are so many rumors but so little movement with him?

I think it's probably simpler. I bet the 20 teams who have called or whatever the number is have all asked about his availability, Adams is disappointed with Cozens this year and so he asks what they are offering. They offer picks and prospects because they want a guy for now and since Adams also wants a guy for right now nothing happens. 

I would bet anything that if Adams was willing to take picks/prospects the trade would be done. Since Adams wants a roster player it won't happen this year. Maybe in the off season but not now. 

[TheAud]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think it's probably simpler. I bet the 20 teams who have called or whatever the number is have all asked about his availability, Adams is disappointed with Cozens this year and so he asks what they are offering. They offer picks and prospects because they want a guy for now and since Adams also wants a guy for right now nothing happens. 

I would bet anything that if Adams was willing to take picks/prospects the trade would be done. Since Adams wants a roster player it won't happen this year. Maybe in the off season but not now. 

This scenario is likely.

But a creative GM would line up a trade to bring in a quality vet with some term for picks and prospects at the same time as unloading Cozens for the same. 

Unfortunately, Buffalo has Adams.  

[JustOutsideChicago]

Skinner has had a decent game for Edmonton tonight.

[mjd1001]

11 hours ago, JustOutsideChicago said:

Skinner has had a decent game for Edmonton tonight.

Its different teams so its hard to used advanced stats to compared players between teams...but...

Jeff Skinner this year has better goals per 60, better goals per game, better shooting percentage, better plus-minus, Better Corsi%, better Fenwick%, better shots for-vs-shots against%, better goals expected%, better scoring chance %, better high danger chance %, better high danger shot percentage, has drawn more penalties and taken less penalties....than Dylan Cozens.

Oh, and he is doing that with the vast majority of his time being on a 3rd or 4th line, not playing with McDavid or Draisaitl. He's not getting much power play time (about 1/3 what Cozens gets), he's playing mostly with their bottom-of-the roster guys.

I wouldn't want him back, but the team got rid of Skinner and its probably better without him...now lets move on from a few other guys.

[French Collection]

On 2/7/2025 at 8:31 AM, EM88 said:

What are the raw skills anyway?

He is an above average skater as far as speed. But yet he can be clumsy on his skates in traffic.

His shot looks good, maybe his release, but it is pretty inaccurate and he's not blasting 100mph shots.

He is 6'3" tall, but well under 200 lbs. He is willing to hit, but he's not laying out people and lets not even talk about his fighting.

He does not stick handle well, losing the puck in traffic quite a bit. He does not have the willingness or the ability to block shots. He does not sense open linemates and certainly is not a master of stick to stick passes.

Many people on this board talk about his raw skill and talent, even those who don't like him cite his raw talent.  But other than 1 or two areas out of many (above average straight line speed and 6'3 tall), where is the excess of raw talent he has that is just waiting to be harnessed?

I agree with your assessment. I am not tied to Cozens being a Sabre, he can probably still fit as a middle 6 forward but I think he is not a long term 2C, as per his contract.

Raw skills are a term I would use to peddle him to other teams, as per his draft pedigree and international performances. He does possess NHL skills that could make him a 800-1000 game player, just not at an all star level.
He still could be a useful player for the Sabres, just not the go to guy many of us expected.

[Weave]

45 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Its different teams so its hard to used advanced stats to compared players between teams...but...

Jeff Skinner this year has better goals per 60, better goals per game, better shooting percentage, better plus-minus, Better Corsi%, better Fenwick%, better shots for-vs-shots against%, better goals expected%, better scoring chance %, better high danger chance %, better high danger shot percentage, has drawn more penalties and taken less penalties....than Dylan Cozens.

Oh, and he is doing that with the vast majority of his time being on a 3rd or 4th line, not playing with McDavid or Draisaitl. He's not getting much power play time (about 1/3 what Cozens gets), he's playing mostly with their bottom-of-the roster guys.

I wouldn't want him back, but the team got rid of Skinner and its probably better without him...now lets move on from a few other guys.

Ouch.

[Jorcus]

Wow, Detroit's Lyon is pulled 3 min. Into game after giving up 2 goals.

[Flashsabre]

Puljujarvi on waivers for contract termination. Talk about a career that never was.

Speaking of Finns, Rantanen is out with an injury for the Canes. 2 points in 6 games for him and a lot of smoke that the Canes might not be able to sign him and have to trade him by the deadline so they don’t get Guentzeled again. What a mess that would be.

 

Edited Saturday at 08:39 PM by Flashsabre

[Jorcus]

54 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Puljujarvi on waivers for contract termination. Talk about a career that never was.

Speaking of Finns, Rantanen is out with an injury for the Canes. 2 points in 6 games for him and a lot of smoke that the Canes might not be able to sign him and have to trade him by the deadline so they don’t get Guentzeled again. What a mess that would be.

 

I think Mikko has hit the post or crossbar about 5 times in those games. I can't believe Carolina does not have a plan in place to keep him.  That would be crazy if they have to give him up.

[Thorner]

On 2/7/2025 at 3:29 PM, freester said:

Cozens is a slightly better Girgensons. 

All-Star, Zemgus Girgensons? 

[PerreaultForever]

11 hours ago, Jorcus said:

Wow, Detroit's Lyon is pulled 3 min. Into game after giving up 2 goals.

Tampa Bay letting all the new upstart teams know that 3rd place is theirs. 

[JustOneParade]

9 hours ago, Thorner said:

All-Star, Zemgus Girgensons? 

I was in Sabres hibernation around that time. Z made the all-star game? How? Was it one of those deals where there had to be a representative from the Sabres and he was it? (Tallest midget, if you’ll excuse me phrase).

[Sabres Fan in NS]

7 minutes ago, JustOneParade said:

I was in Sabres hibernation around that time. Z made the all-star game? How? Was it one of those deals where there had to be a representative from the Sabres and he was it? (Tallest midget, if you’ll excuse me phrase).

Everybody in Latvia voted for him and a handful of people in Western New York and a sprinkling in the Greater Satan Area and me in NS and that's about it.

[Jorcus]

3 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Everybody in Latvia voted for him and a handful of people in Western New York and a sprinkling in the Greater Satan Area and me in NS and that's about it.

One shinning example of being a below average player on a really bad team can make you look better than you are. You get power play time you don't deserve, You get goals in garbage time. Even with that he only ended up with 30 points. It's weird the current team is way better talent wise than that pile of garbage yet we are almost in the same place. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, Jorcus said:

One shinning example of being a below average player on a really bad team can make you look better than you are. You get power play time you don't deserve, You get goals in garbage time. Even with that he only ended up with 30 points. It's weird the current team is way better talent wise than that pile of garbage yet we are almost in the same place. 

His play and points and everything else didn't matter atoll.  The fans, mostly his countrymen and countrywomen, voted for him and voted often.  That is the only reason why he made it.  There may have been more deserving Sabres (I have no idea), a fan voted in guy from that particular Sabre team meant that there were going to be no other Sabre invited.

[pastajoe]

Zemgus scored his first goal of the season for Tampa today.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, pastajoe said:

Zemgus scored his first goal of the season for Tampa today.

All star Zemgus Girgensons?