Around the NHL: 2024-2025 Season

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, Weave said:

Except Malenstyn and Aube Kubel get us nothing.  
 

I have a hard time pointing at the 4th line for blame when the 1st 3 are so underperforming generally.

Sorry maybe that wasn’t clear ; of course they don’t - but I’m dealing 5 overall and Konsta Helinius (sp?) and any highly touted prospect I can get my paws on for the veteran players when I can and then bumping cozens down and ipso facto aube-kubel becomes the aube one out 

[thewookie1]

17 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Sorry maybe that wasn’t clear ; of course they don’t - but I’m dealing 5 overall and Konsta Helinius (sp?) and any highly touted prospect I can get my paws on for the veteran players when I can and then bumping cozens down and ipso facto aube-kubel becomes the aube one out 

Very unlikely to be worth it

If there were a team out there looking to unload quality middle aged players for futures I'd open my asset accounts; but I have zero interest in trading our 1st/highly touted prospects/Helenius for any rentals or 35 year old 3rd liners. Frankly our 1st should be all but untouchable at this point; barring a rapid climb in the standings the likelihood of getting any player worth a Top 5 pick is miniscule. Since most teams with players worth that sort of asset are rarely in the market looking to trade them away to garner high draft picks.

[LabattBlue]

18 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Very unlikely to be worth it

If there were a team out there looking to unload quality middle aged players for futures I'd open my asset accounts; but I have zero interest in trading our 1st/highly touted prospects/Helenius for any rentals or 35 year old 3rd liners. Frankly our 1st should be all but untouchable at this point; barring a rapid climb in the standings the likelihood of getting any player worth a Top 5 pick is miniscule. Since most teams with players worth that sort of asset are rarely in the market looking to trade them away to garner high draft picks.

Yes.  Let’s hang on to all of the “highly touted” prospects and future 1st round draft picks because that has worked out so well for the last 14 years. 
 

That being said, Adams would like you to know that he is glad at least one fan “gets it”. 
 

😂

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Except Malenstyn and Aube Kubel get us nothing.  
 

I have a hard time pointing at the 4th line for blame when the 1st 3 are so underperforming generally.

Mostly what you would expect from line #2 (your 4th-6th best guys).  The failing of forward group is not only the production, but the overall play of Quinn and Cozens.  

Tage has been injured, Tuch is Tuch (2nd line guy that is playing first line)  Peterka is up and down but overall producing for the year. Zucker is better than we all thought Benson is very young.  They ALL could be somewhat better, but you aren't getting considerably worse play from those guys that expections.   Quinn and Cozens are the shortcoming of this forward group.

[thewookie1]

12 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Yes.  Let’s hang on to all of the “highly touted” prospects and future 1st round draft picks because that has worked out so well for the last 14 years. 
 

That being said, Adams would like you to know that he is glad at least one fan “gets it”. 
 

😂

You don't have to hold onto everyone but I wouldn't just go trading everything for random extreme short term vets. Plus our 1st is to be protected; the last thing we need is to trade our 1st and then actually win the lottery. We'd only add to our misery

[ska-T Palmtown]

12 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Mostly what you would expect from line #2 (your 4th-6th best guys).  The failing of forward group is not only the production, but the overall play of Quinn and Cozens.  

Tage has been injured, Tuch is Tuch (2nd line guy that is playing first line)  Peterka is up and down but overall producing for the year. Zucker is better than we all thought Benson is very young.  They ALL could be somewhat better, but you aren't getting considerably worse play from those guys that expections.   Quinn and Cozens are the shortcoming of this forward group.

But Quinn has been picking up it as of late!!

[mjd1001]

16 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

But Quinn has been picking up it as of late!!

Yep, once you got him away from Cozens.

Notice how you move Cozens to Center the top line because Tage can't take Faceoffs, and then without Cozens Quinn scores 3 goals in his first 2 games not playing with Dylan?

[Weave]

25 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

You don't have to hold onto everyone but I wouldn't just go trading everything for random extreme short term vets. Plus our 1st is to be protected; the last thing we need is to trade our 1st and then actually win the lottery. We'd only add to our misery

It would only add to “your” misery.  If the team moves forward next season and finally makes the playoffs I don’t give a damn if the pick we traded to get the monkey off our backs turns out to be 1OA.

Seen that movie already.  If they aren’t properly supported by GOOD vets that know how to pass the how part along we will lose that 1OA anyway.  
 

The need is NOW.  Otherwise Dahlin, Thompson, Benson, and the rest are losing their love for the game and our new 1OA will be our new timeframe.

[EM88]

59 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

But Quinn has been picking up it as of late!!

Numbers for the year as of the last game played:

Jack Quinn with Dylan Cozens (275 minutes of ice time):    2.4 Goals for per 60.  4.14 goals allowed per 60.

Jack Quinn without Dylan Cozens (283 minutes ice time):  3.39 goals for per 60.  2.54 goals allowed per 60.

 

At least for this year, those numbers for Jack Quinn are much better without Cozens than when he is with him.  

I think most of us know getting Quinn to keep picking it up requires he not be on the ice with Dylan Cozens for a while.

[ska-T Palmtown]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

It would only add to “your” misery.  If the team moves forward next season and finally makes the playoffs I don’t give a damn if the pick we traded to get the monkey off our backs turns out to be 1OA.

Seen that movie already.  If they aren’t properly supported by GOOD vets that know how to pass the how part along we will lose that 1OA anyway.  
 

The need is NOW.  Otherwise Dahlin, Thompson, Benson, and the rest are losing their love for the game and our new 1OA will be our new timeframe.

During the 'Canes game, the crew went on and on (and on and on and on) about how having Staal around to help guide the kids was such a great thing. 

I am still a bit surprised that "the kids" did not get more from Okposo ... but maybe Okie did not get the support from the coaching staff that I imagine Rod the Bod gives Staal?

Staal's statline is a bit more impressive than Okie's

but not tremendously ....

[thewookie1]

8 hours ago, Weave said:

It would only add to “your” misery.  If the team moves forward next season and finally makes the playoffs I don’t give a damn if the pick we traded to get the monkey off our backs turns out to be 1OA.

Seen that movie already.  If they aren’t properly supported by GOOD vets that know how to pass the how part along we will lose that 1OA anyway.  
 

The need is NOW.  Otherwise Dahlin, Thompson, Benson, and the rest are losing their love for the game and our new 1OA will be our new timeframe.

And yet anyone with a brain knows that won't be the case. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell we'll get anywhere near the value of the 1st overall from anyone we might acquire using it. And as we all seen tonight, if we can be embarrassed by unusual and/or rare situations we tend to. Plus I really don't feel like endless Mahomes-like talk when referring to the Sabres trading the 1st overall as said pick tears up the league. Not to mention I wouldn't trust Adams to use it in a trade to begin with.

[Weave]

6 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

And yet anyone with a brain knows that won't be the case. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell we'll get anywhere near the value of the 1st overall from anyone we might acquire using it. And as we all seen tonight, if we can be embarrassed by unusual and/or rare situations we tend to. Plus I really don't feel like endless Mahomes-like talk when referring to the Sabres trading the 1st overall as said pick tears up the league. Not to mention I wouldn't trust Adams to use it in a trade to begin with.

The only reason it might not be the case is because picks that high rarely get moved, and our GM is likely not capable of identifying and getting proper value.  I have no doubt an average GM would be able to identify proper value.  Is there another team willing to move a player that is top 5 pick value worthy?  That’s another matter entirely.   But if one came available, you bet your ass I’m interested in it. 

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

The only reason it might not be the case is because picks that high rarely get moved, and our GM is likely not capable of identifying and getting proper value.  I have no doubt an average GM would be able to identify proper value.  Is there another team willing to move a player that is top 5 pick value worthy?  That’s another matter entirely.   But if one came available, you bet your ass I’m interested in it. 

Frankly I'd trade it if said player was out there; but I personally don't believe it exists. Plus I don't have any interest in just throwing it into a larger trade for the sake of "value." 

[Archie Lee]

8 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

And yet anyone with a brain knows that won't be the case. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell we'll get anywhere near the value of the 1st overall from anyone we might acquire using it. And as we all seen tonight, if we can be embarrassed by unusual and/or rare situations we tend to. Plus I really don't feel like endless Mahomes-like talk when referring to the Sabres trading the 1st overall as said pick tears up the league. Not to mention I wouldn't trust Adams to use it in a trade to begin with.

Isn't it fair to say that no reasonable person is seriously advocating trading a top-5 pick for a middle-six player?  If Elias Pettersson is available this off-season and Vancouver pivots to wanting a top-5 pick as the primary piece in a trade package, then it isn't crazy to trade such a pick in a deal for such a player.  If it is a package trade that includes a 1st rd pick, then the value of the other pieces should be adjusted relative to the value of the 1st.

Regardless, it isn't necessary for us to move our 1st rd pick.  Though I'm not opposed to doing so in the right deal, I think we have more than enough assets and cap space for a good GM, who is working for a committed owner, to make the necessary moves that would make us a playoff team. There is no reason at this time, to think Adams is that GM. Pegula, does not appear to be that owner. My hope is that the Bills take a long run at the Super Bowl and that Pegula has a moment where he realizes just how incredible the Buffalo sports-scene could be if he had two teams that were championship contenders.

 

 

 

[Archie Lee]

8 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Frankly I'd trade it if said player was out there; but I personally don't believe it exists. Plus I don't have any interest in just throwing it into a larger trade for the sake of "value." 

This is fair and correct.  We have valuable assets that we can move for middle-six players and 2nd pairing D-men. If a legit 1st line C was available in trade and the primary piece needed to complete the trade was our top 5 pick (in the 4-5 range), then it would not be crazy to do this.

[Weave]

14 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Isn't it fair to say that no reasonable person is seriously advocating trading a top-5 pick for a middle-six player?  If Elias Pettersson is available this off-season and Vancouver pivots to wanting a top-5 pick as the primary piece in a trade package, then it isn't crazy to trade such a pick in a deal for such a player.  If it is a package trade that includes a 1st rd pick, then the value of the other pieces should be adjusted relative to the value of the 1st.

Regardless, it isn't necessary for us to move our 1st rd pick.  Though I'm not opposed to doing so in the right deal, I think we have more than enough assets and cap space for a good GM, who is working for a committed owner, to make the necessary moves that would make us a playoff team. There is no reason at this time, to think Adams is that GM. Pegula, does not appear to be that owner. My hope is that the Bills take a long run at the Super Bowl and that Pegula has a moment where he realizes just how incredible the Buffalo sports-scene could be if he had two teams that were championship contenders.

 

 

 

Pettersson is a really good example of discussing a move of a top 5 pick.  Pettersson was a 5 overall if my memory serves.  And he is more or less fulled cooked.  Win now.

 

Of course, Pettersson has faults.  But a draft pick has unknowns, and will also in all probability have faults.  I’m too damned disinterested to see how Petterssons career compares to other picks at that draft position, but I’d expect he’s pretty representative.  In other words, good value for that 5OA pick.

It’s an interesting display of human psychology that we tend to value the unknown of a draft pick over the known of a developed player selected from a similar spot in the draft.

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

Pettersson is a really good example of discussing a move of a top 5 pick.  Pettersson was a 5 overall if my memory serves.  And he is more or less fulled cooked.  Win now.

 

Of course, Pettersson has faults.  But a draft pick has unknowns, and will also in all probability have faults.  I’m too damned disinterested to see how Petterssons career compares to other picks at that draft position, but I’d expect he’s pretty representative.  In other words, good value for that 5OA pick.

It’s an interesting display of human psychology that we tend to value the unknown of a draft pick over the known of a developed player selected from a similar spot in the draft.

The biggest thing with Pettersson would be what else do they want with it. I wouldn't give them Cozens, Byram and our 1st for him.

[Archie Lee]

3 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

The biggest thing with Pettersson would be what else do they want with it. I wouldn't give them Cozens, Byram and our 1st for him.

I think people will have their lines of what is ok and what is too much. That's all fair. When it comes to any piece as valuable as a top-5 pick, it is too-simplistic to say "trade it" or "don't trade it".  The question is: What are we trading it for?

[SabreFinn]

I might be wrong on this, I should take time to do some research first, but I think there has not been a Stanley cup champion since Boston, without a top five drafted forward on the roster. That is how valuable the top 5 pick is. 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, SabreFinn said:

I might be wrong on this, I should take time to do some research first, but I think there has not been a Stanley cup champion since Boston, without a top five drafted forward on the roster. That is how valuable the top 5 pick is. 

And two of the were drafted by the Sabres.

[Archie Lee]

3 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

I might be wrong on this, I should take time to do some research first, but I think there has not been a Stanley cup champion since Boston, without a top five drafted forward on the roster. That is how valuable the top 5 pick is. 

Agreed.  That is certainly why you don’t trade it for less than value. Pettersson was a top 5.

Also, the Sabres have 5 top 10 picks on their roster including 3 D-men drafted in the top 4 (two at 1OA). 

[SabreFinn]

24 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Agreed.  That is certainly why you don’t trade it for less than value. Pettersson was a top 5.

Also, the Sabres have 5 top 10 picks on their roster including 3 D-men drafted in the top 4 (two at 1OA). 

We definitely should be better than we are. 

I can't imagine Canucks trading Pettersson. And if we want to change the culture we should be in on Rantanen if he doesn't resign with Avs. But I think we have to hope third time's a charm if we get a top five pick again.

[Archie Lee]

30 minutes ago, SabreFinn said:

We definitely should be better than we are. 

I can't imagine Canucks trading Pettersson. And if we want to change the culture we should be in on Rantanen if he doesn't resign with Avs. But I think we have to hope third time's a charm if we get a top five pick again.

Yes, such trades are rare and are not likely to occur. 

[Archie Lee]

I’m not great with links. But lots of reporting that Canucks are working hard to move Miller soon. 

[PerreaultForever]

On 1/17/2025 at 12:33 PM, ska-T Palmtown said:

But Quinn has been picking up it as of late!!

Has he? What's his numbers if you take away the PP?

11 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

I might be wrong on this, I should take time to do some research first, but I think there has not been a Stanley cup champion since Boston, without a top five drafted forward on the roster. That is how valuable the top 5 pick is. 

Sure, but you don't have to draft one yourself, you can trade with a team like Buffalo to get one.