Around the NHL: 2024-2025 Season

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Highly doubt you can say that about a guy with 41 games to his NHL resume. Power is better than Lohrei until Lohrei proves otherwise over a full season. 

First off I did say that Power should be the better player in time. That's a main point. However, Lohrei has experienced playoff intensity, has been better coached and has tremendous exponential growth. How good he ends up being is hard to say but right now there isn't much difference and Lohrei might be the more confident D man who makes less mistakes.

Really hard to judge though with the 2 extremely different systems. Power would probably be better right now if he was learning in their system and hadn't started in Granato's do whatever you want and have fun game. 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not sure what you mean in the second sentence but Power still has a lot of possible upside. Otherwise, Sabres D has great offensive potential but defensive ability is questionable. 

Power and Byram have each played about 160 NHL games, were the first defenceman picked in their respective drafts and have a lot of possible upside.

That upside is not just in their ability to put up points. Power has elite length and his range; Byram has elite mobility and a high degree of edge to his game. Those are skills that help players play defence too.

Neither were particularly effective defensively last season; plenty of players you can say that about at their level of experience. Each was drafted as a 2-way defenceman. Each has the ability to become very effective defensively in the same way Dahlin did.

It may not happen overnight, but I would be surprised if they don’t get there.

Edited September 30 by dudacek

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

First off I did say that Power should be the better player in time. That's a main point. However, Lohrei has experienced playoff intensity, has been better coached and has tremendous exponential growth. How good he ends up being is hard to say but right now there isn't much difference and Lohrei might be the more confident D man who makes less mistakes.

Really hard to judge though with the 2 extremely different systems. Power would probably be better right now if he was learning in their system and hadn't started in Granato's do whatever you want and have fun game. 

 

Isn't much difference?

One player at 23 played 17 of the most sheltered minutes a night on one of the league’s most disciplined teams and still ended up among the team’s worst at -2.

The other, at 21, played 23 hard minutes a night on a “do whatever you want” team and was +8.

It’s not really hard to judge at all.

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

26 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Power and Byram have each played about 160 NHL games, were the first defenceman picked in their respective drafts and have a lot of possible upside.

That upside is not just in their ability to put up points. Power has elite length and his range; Byram has elite mobility and a high degree of edge to his game. Those are skills that help players play defence too.

Neither were particularly effective defensively last season; plenty of players you can say that about at their level of experience. Each was drafted as a 2-way defenceman. Each has the ability to become very effective defensively in the same way Dahlin did.

It may not happen overnight, but I would be surprised if they don’t get there.

Shouldn't Byram be there already if he was going to get there? I think Colorado felt he wasn't going to get there. idk, I haven't seen anything in him defensively that makes me think he will be good. Offensively yes, but not defensively. 

Power should still get better but it remains to be seen if he will develop the strength and physicality he needs to add to that frame. 

[PerreaultForever]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Isn't much difference?

One player at 23 played 17 of the most sheltered minutes a night on one of the league’s most disciplined teams and still ended up among the team’s worst at -2.

The other, at 21, played 23 hard minutes a night on a “do whatever you want” team and was +8.

It’s not really hard to judge at all.

 

 

Maybe. Eye test says something different. 

[steveoath]

Savoie sent down by the oilers. 
 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/nhl/reviewing-edmonton-oilers-rosters-cuts-matt-savoie-sam-o-reilly-others-assigned-minor-leagues

 

[dudacek]

50 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Shouldn't Byram be there already if he was going to get there? I think Colorado felt he wasn't going to get there. idk, I haven't seen anything in him defensively that makes me think he will be good. Offensively yes, but not defensively. 

Power should still get better but it remains to be seen if he will develop the strength and physicality he needs to add to that frame. 

You know Byram and Lohrei are the same age, right?

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Maybe. Eye test says something different. 

It tells us you prefer the style of Lohrei over Power. It's not telling us who's actually better. 

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, steveoath said:

Savoie sent down by the oilers. 
 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/nhl/reviewing-edmonton-oilers-rosters-cuts-matt-savoie-sam-o-reilly-others-assigned-minor-leagues

 

He'll probably need a full AHL year. His game just didn't mature as much as it needed to. 

[DarthEbriate]

29 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He'll probably need a full AHL year. His game just didn't mature as much as it needed to. 

The best part of drafting Savoie was to make it impossible not to draft Benson after watching any ICE games. 

Savoie could still have a great NHL career, particularly if he spends any time on McDavid or Draisaitl’s wing. 

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, steveoath said:

Savoie sent down by the oilers. 
 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/nhl/reviewing-edmonton-oilers-rosters-cuts-matt-savoie-sam-o-reilly-others-assigned-minor-leagues

Sounds like he's Edmonton's Kulich.

Edited September 30 by Doohicksie

[mjd1001]

53 minutes ago, Doohicksie said:

Sounds like he's Edmonton's Kulich.

I looked for about 1 minute and can't find an official 'stats' page for the Oilers in preseason, but from what I read:

-In the Oilers version of the 'prospects challenge' he played 3 games and got 1 assist.

-In 4 preseason games he got 1 assist, looked good in the first 2 games (overall game) looked really out of place, (code for bad) in the last 2.

Again, that is what I got from an article about him so far, haven't seen those stats verified.

Edited September 30 by mjd1001

[That Aud Smell]

The Oilers are presumably still a Cup contender.

The fact that Savoie couldn't crack that lineup is, therefore, maybe not all that damning.

OTOH, I feel better still about the trade given that he's not slated to skate with the big club to start the season.

Also, I'm now aware of Östlund. As I saw someone remark here: Östlund was likely a significant part of the team's thinking when parting with Savoie.

[mjd1001]

11 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

The Oilers are presumably still a Cup contender.

The fact that Savoie couldn't crack that lineup is, therefore, maybe not all that damning.

OTOH, I feel better still about the trade given that he's not slated to skate with the big club to start the season.

Also, I'm now aware of Östlund. As I saw someone remark here: Östlund was likely a significant part of the team's thinking when parting with Savoie.

With Savoie, was it more:

-We really want McLeod, and we might have to overpay to get him. Savoie is a very valued prospect, but that is what we need to give up...

-Or-

-Savoie hasn't shown much progress in the 2 years he's been here in various camps...lets move him now while we can still get something for him.

Edited September 30 by mjd1001

[Brawndo]

Cam Neeley just mentioned during a press conference that the Bruins offered Swayman 8 years 64 Million

17 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

With Savoie, was it more:

-We really want McLeod, and we might have to overpay to get him. Savoie is a very valued prospect, but that is what we need to give up...

-Or-

-Savoie hasn't shown much progress in the 2 years he's been here in various camps...lets move him now while we can still get something for him.

Choice C:All of the above 

[SabreFinn]

14 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

With Savoie, was it more:

-We really want McLeod, and we might have to overpay to get him. Savoie is a very valued prospect, but that is what we need to give up...

-Or-

-Savoie hasn't shown much progress in the 2 years he's been here in various camps...lets move him now while we can still get something for him.

I think both. We needed a third line center and other teams, especially canadian, might have valued him higher than Sabres did. They had more trust in Helenius and Östlund.

[That Aud Smell]

29 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

With Savoie, was it more:

-We really want McLeod, and we might have to overpay to get him. Savoie is a very valued prospect, but that is what we need to give up...

-Or-

-Savoie hasn't shown much progress in the 2 years he's been here in various camps...lets move him now while we can still get something for him.

Yeah - I'm taking that as a blend - not as a binary choice. I think what drove that deal was the franchise's desire for a player like McLeod. From there, I think the Sabres were still reasonably high on Savoie. But, as others have noted, there are other Sabre prospects that made Savoie a piece that could be moved for a valuable NHL player.

[Porous Five Hole]

16 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Cam Neeley just mentioned during a press conference that the Bruins offered Swayman 8 years 64 Million

@PerreaultForever, you still sure Swayman isn’t looking for 10 mil a year? And how that was a “ridiculous” report?

[Taro T]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Shouldn't Byram be there already if he was going to get there? I think Colorado felt he wasn't going to get there. idk, I haven't seen anything in him defensively that makes me think he will be good. Offensively yes, but not defensively. 

Power should still get better but it remains to be seen if he will develop the strength and physicality he needs to add to that frame. 

Personally expect that the Avs saw they had the top D pairing covered for the next many years and that having a good 2C that could bounce up in a pinch or out to W in a pinch was more valuable than a 3rd future top pairing (or 3 at the likely worst) D-man based on where they are in their current win now mode.

Adams saw that he had Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Peterka, Quinn, and Benson but really didn't have a true 3rd top 4 D-man (Jokiharju plays there but isn't one IMHO and Samuelsson is a defensive D-man that probably is top 4 but can't stay healthy, and even Power, their 2nd top 4 D-man, is barely out of his teens).  So, they had enough bodies to play the top 6 well and had a 3C that didn't really play as well in a 3C role as he would in a 2C role; but were lacking in top 4 D-men.

Enter the elusive true "hockey trade."

Whether Byram ends up the right guy for the top 4 remains to be seen.  He very well could be.  But the Avs traded from a position of strength to fill a weakness and the Sabres did likewise.  My personal beef with the trade is that the Sabres traded away a guy entering his prime for one at least 2 years still removed from being to that point.

And Power will never be a bruiser nor have even the snarl that Dahlin has; but Lidstrom wasn't a bruiser nor had the snarl and he was one of the best.  Power will still get better.  How much better?  No data.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Yeah - I'm taking that as a blend - not as a binary choice. I think what drove that deal was the franchise's desire for a player like McLeod. From there, I think the Sabres were still reasonably high on Savoie. But, as others have noted, there are other Sabre prospects that made Savoie a piece that could be moved for a valuable NHL player.

Savoie was, at best, the 3rd Sabres F prospect prior to this draft and realistically would also be behind Helenius.  Getting McLeod and change for him was a very shrewd move.  Another one, taking from an area of strength to bolster an area of weakness.  That it actually bolstered an area of weakness TODAY AND for the forseeable future, was the only thing that makes the move out of character (to a degree) for Adams to date and is further proof (as if the rest of the revamping of the bottom 6 isn't) that he actually thinks the team should start winning now.  (Even though still expect he sees their truly becoming contenders as 1 more year away when Quinn & Peterka start to hit their primes and Power and Byram get that much closer to theirs and guys like Kulich and Johnson are at a point they can step in and be useful immediately.)

[LGR4GM]

42 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Cam Neeley just mentioned during a press conference that the Bruins offered Swayman 8 years 64 Million

 

Just saw this. For someone to open toss the number out into the public at a presser like that... I take it things haven't been going well. 

 

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Savoie was, at best, the 3rd Sabres F prospect prior to this draft and realistically would also be behind Helenius.  Getting McLeod and change for him was a very shrewd move.  Another one, taking from an area of strength to bolster an area of weakness.  That it actually bolstered an area of weakness TODAY AND for the forseeable future, was the only thing that makes the move out of character (to a degree) for Adams to date and is further proof (as if the rest of the revamping of the bottom 6 isn't) that he actually thinks the team should start winning now.  (Even though still expect he sees their truly becoming contenders as 1 more year away when Quinn & Peterka start to hit their primes and Power and Byram get that much closer to theirs and guys like Kulich and Johnson are at a point they can step in and be useful immediately.)

People around here talk a lot about Adams' reticence to go get proven assets.

What doesn't get talked about much is how many of Adams moves have involved acquisitions that fit the Dahlin age group (Krebs, Byram, McLeod, Levi) and involve players with the possibility of untapped upside (Tuch, Malenstyn Clifton, Comrie, Greenway)

The man told us his plan 3 years ago and has definitely stuck with it.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

People around here talk a lot about Adams' reticence to go get proven assets.

What doesn't get talked about much is how many of Adams moves have involved acquisitions that fit the Dahlin age group (Krebs, Byram, McLeod, Levi) and involve players with the possibility of untapped upside (Tuch, Malenstyn Clifton, Comrie, Greenway)

The man told us his plan 3 years ago and has definitely stuck with it.

No plan survives contact with the enemy. 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

The man told us his plan 3 years ago and has definitely stuck with it.

I can't tell whether I find this comforting or dispiriting.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

People around here talk a lot about Adams' reticence to go get proven assets.

What doesn't get talked about much is how many of Adams moves have involved acquisitions that fit the Dahlin age group (Krebs, Byram, McLeod, Levi) and involve players with the possibility of untapped upside (Tuch, Malenstyn Clifton, Comrie, Greenway)

The man told us his plan 3 years ago and has definitely stuck with it.

These are part and parcel and both get talked about all the time. How many times do I need to meme “we’re on the so-and-so timeline, now”? That’s poking fun at the fact Adams had no intention of winning in the near term but rather focused on arbitrarily tying his vision for success to the youngest player the universe will allow in the name of job security 

Everyone knows Adams’ plan. You don’t have to agree with my assessment for the reasons Adams structured it the way he did, but it’s inarguably talked about. Betting on the Comrie-Esque magic beans as a method is also something I talk about often. His plan is well documented. 

Everyone has also seen the results 

Edited September 30 by Thorner