Around the NHL: 2024-2025 Season

[Broken Ankles]

27 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Compare how the Washington Capitals have handled the last couple of years to how our minimalist GM has handled the past couple of years. The Capitals handled it smartly, and it catapulted the team. The Sabres handled it with timidity resulting the team sliding back. As you point out, the opportunities were there for us to advance, however the GM was frozen with fear. His record speaks for itself. 

https://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Brian_MacLellan/281/1

This above is just a trade tracker, which provides a nice view into the work of the Caps GM.  

 PLD for Keumper.  PLD has been a solid 2c.

 On defense, only 2 home grown.  Chykren and Sandin came via trade and Roy as a UFA.    
Magiopane came relatively cheaply. 
Logan Thompson to solidify Goal for two mid level draft picks. 

Roy and Strome are two players with not huge contracts by way of UFA that are paying dividends. 

The return for Hathaway- Bravo. 

I agree, textbook GM’ing that keeps a very small core of Alexander O, Wilson and Carlson together.  
 

[Jorcus]

3 hours ago, Thorner said:

That doesn’t let Adams off the hook at all it’s in line with his points. Accumulating prospects is easy 

It's a lot easier if you have proven vets to sell. I did not really make my point well but a bottom team has to operate in a different way than a top team. There are different kinds of prospects and you have to give up a lot to get one so it's not all that easy. Tampa gambled big last off season and it may or may not end up well for them. They let Stamkos go and traded Sergachev. They have not been a very deep team this year. At one point Girgensons was on the 2nd line. If they wanted to try for another run they had to make trades to get Bjorkstrand  and Gourde. So once again they are all in. They are all interesting moves but we don't really know if it's going to work. 

A lot of people were upset that we gave next years second round pick to get Norris. In my mind who cares about that pick. It's getting to the point short of keeping our lottery pick there just isn't a whole lot of need for marginal chance players around here in the near future. I think we all know we need mature players around here next season. The question becomes what picks prospects do we keep as we attack the problem from the bottom up as opposed to the top down.   

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Kevyn Adams is like a lot people who aren't that smart, nor are they truly idiots, he lacks imagination. 

Definitely true. I'm not convinced he isn't an idiot, but he definitely lacks imagination. He has not found ways to work around his obstacles and he hasn't reacted quickly to problems (and has definitely not seen those problems coming).

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Jorcus said:

It's a lot easier if you have proven vets to sell. I did not really make my point well but a bottom team has to operate in a different way than a top team. There are different kinds of prospects and you have to give up a lot to get one so it's not all that easy. Tampa gambled big last off season and it may or may not end up well for them. They let Stamkos go and traded Sergachev. They have not been a very deep team this year. At one point Girgensons was on the 2nd line. If they wanted to try for another run they had to make trades to get Bjorkstrand  and Gourde. So once again they are all in. They are all interesting moves but we don't really know if it's going to work. 

A lot of people were upset that we gave next years second round pick to get Norris. In my mind who cares about that pick. It's getting to the point short of keeping our lottery pick there just isn't a whole lot of need for marginal chance players around here in the near future. I think we all know we need mature players around here next season. The question becomes what picks prospects do we keep as we attack the problem from the bottom up as opposed to the top down.   

We’ve lost the plot being in the wilderness for so long. “End up well.” It already did: they are playing competitive hockey into the playoffs.

“Oh no, what are the affects in 3 years?” is a sabres thing. We’ve been conditioned. They have tried to condition fans to think we may harm the future by trying to be too good, now: in reality, they are actively *harming* the future by not finding a way to be good, now 

[Jorcus]

2 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

https://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Brian_MacLellan/281/1

This above is just a trade tracker, which provides a nice view into the work of the Caps GM.  

 PLD for Keumper.  PLD has been a solid 2c.

 On defense, only 2 home grown.  Chykren and Sandin came via trade and Roy as a UFA.    
Magiopane came relatively cheaply. 
Logan Thompson to solidify Goal for two mid level draft picks. 

Roy and Strome are two players with not huge contracts by way of UFA that are paying dividends. 

The return for Hathaway- Bravo. 

I agree, textbook GM’ing that keeps a very small core of Alexander O, Wilson and Carlson together.  
 

 

3 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

https://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Brian_MacLellan/281/1

This above is just a trade tracker, which provides a nice view into the work of the Caps GM.  

 PLD for Keumper.  PLD has been a solid 2c.

 On defense, only 2 home grown.  Chykren and Sandin came via trade and Roy as a UFA.    
Magiopane came relatively cheaply. 
Logan Thompson to solidify Goal for two mid level draft picks. 

Roy and Strome are two players with not huge contracts by way of UFA that are paying dividends. 

The return for Hathaway- Bravo. 

I agree, textbook GM’ing that keeps a very small core of Alexander O, Wilson and Carlson together.  
 

Nothing against any of the moves Maclellan has made but Washington is where it is due to the continuing improvement of McMichael and the explosion in the output of Protas the giant. From 6 goals last year to 29 already. That second line with Dubois is as good as any ones right now. Picking up Thompson was a solid move though. They have a lot going on.

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, Jorcus said:

 

Nothing against any of the moves Maclellan has made but Washington is where it is due to the continuing improvement of McMichael and the explosion in the output of Protas the giant. From 6 goals last year to 29 already. That second line with Dubois is as good as any ones right now. Picking up Thompson was a solid move though. They have a lot going on.

Yeah, organic growth is required for a team to jump from #8/9 to leading the conference.  But I would restate my original point about the adds from trade and UFA.  277 points of their total ~620 came from the acquisitions from last two years. That’s 45% of total points. And PLD and Strome are #1 &2 respectively.  Conversely what have Adams acquisitions done?  McLeod, Zucker, Beck, Clifton, Byrum are good for 131.  And most give Adams credit for Zucker and McLeod, but they are 5/6.  
 
And Logan Thompson is second to Helle in goals saved above expected.  Again, for the pittance spent, an amazing ROI.

 
Not to mention a GM gets some credit for their drafting. 

[PerreaultForever]

Montreal looking like they know how to rebuild better than the Sabres. That development is more annoying than Ottawa ahead of us. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Montreal looking like they know how to rebuild better than the Sabres. That development is more annoying than Ottawa ahead of us. 

Montreal is having pretty much the year the Sabres had two years ago, with a roster built of similar pieces at similar ages with similar expectations to start the year.

It will be interesting to see who continues to grow and how they are supported.

 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Montreal is having pretty much the year the Sabres had two years ago, with a roster built of similar pieces at similar ages with similar expectations to start the year.

It will be interesting to see who continues to grow and how they are supported.

 

I don't agree that the roster is similar at all. They have put much more emphasis on physicality and tenacity and they have a much more balanced roster. I heard the TSN guys refer to Anderson as a "culture driver" and I found myself thinking we haven't had a "culture driver" since Foligno got traded. 

[SabreFinn]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't agree that the roster is similar at all. They have put much more emphasis on physicality and tenacity and they have a much more balanced roster. I heard the TSN guys refer to Anderson as a "culture driver" and I found myself thinking we haven't had a "culture driver" since Foligno got traded. 

And Gallagher was named the heart and soul of the team. If they were Sabres they would probably have let go of Armia at deadline just to get something for him, instead they kept him and extended Evans - so the young players can learn from them! And them two and Heinemann on their fourth line is one of the best in NHL.

[Doohickie]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

we haven't had a "culture driver" since Foligno got traded. 

I never liked that trade.  I still don't.

[dudacek]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't agree that the roster is similar at all. They have put much more emphasis on physicality and tenacity and they have a much more balanced roster. I heard the TSN guys refer to Anderson as a "culture driver" and I found myself thinking we haven't had a "culture driver" since Foligno got traded. 

I wasn't referring to play style, more demographics.

All their top producers are kids having career/breakout years and they've more or less employed a no-blocking strategy, with those kids lining up in the key roles

Matheson is the only veteran D playing more than 18 minutes a game, Evans the only veteran forward playing more than 15. 

And sure they've got guys like Gallagher and Savard, but we had guys like Okposo and Craig Anderson.

Edited March 19 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

I wasn't referring to play style, more demographics.

All their top producers are kids having career/breakout years and they've more or less employed a no-blocking strategy, with those kids lining up in the key roles

Matheson is the only veteran D playing more than 18 minutes a game, Evans the only veteran forward playing more than 15. 

And sure they've got guys like Gallagher and Savard, but we had guys like Okposo and Craig Anderson.

Those aren't equivalents imo. It's true that some of their kids are leading their scoring and maybe they got lucky with Hutson but they've made more moves and trades. Took a chance on Laine. They've picked up assets along the way with various moves like Monahan and DeSmith and just a generally more active GM building around character as well as talent. They also have guys to step up if the kids get challenged and the team plays braver. There's never been a softness question on that team has there? 

In general I just see a more balanced roster with more of the necessary parts for success. They might not even make the playoffs. Rangers and Columbus are still there and maybe Detroit too but they are in it and it's exciting. They leapt ahead of the Sabres and they are a lesson in how to do it properly by comparison. 

I think trying to look for similarities is a mistake (all rebuilds have some similarities). The key is to look at the differences, even if they seem small. 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Took a chance on Laine.

Remember when we took a chance on Taylor Hall?

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Doohicksie said:

Remember when we took a chance on Taylor Hall?

Not exactly the same but yes, I suppose that was a failed gamble. Really the worst part of that was giving him the trade protection where he could demand Bruins and thus we got a crap return as well. 

[Flashsabre]

“Rossi joins Kirill Kaprizov, Joel Eriksson Ek, Jonas Brodin, Marcus Foligno, and Marcus Johansson on the Wild's injury report.”

That’s a worst case scenario with the Wild’s injury list right now.

[Archie Lee]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not exactly the same but yes, I suppose that was a failed gamble. Really the worst part of that was giving him the trade protection where he could demand Bruins and thus we got a crap return as well. 

At the time, Hall was much more highly regarded than he is now. I’m sure he had other offers. I doubt he would have taken a one year deal with the Sabres, in the middle of Covid, without a full NTC. Without the NTC, he almost certainly does not sign with the Sabres. 

[Archie Lee]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Those aren't equivalents imo. It's true that some of their kids are leading their scoring and maybe they got lucky with Hutson but they've made more moves and trades. Took a chance on Laine. They've picked up assets along the way with various moves like Monahan and DeSmith and just a generally more active GM building around character as well as talent. They also have guys to step up if the kids get challenged and the team plays braver. There's never been a softness question on that team has there? 

In general I just see a more balanced roster with more of the necessary parts for success. They might not even make the playoffs. Rangers and Columbus are still there and maybe Detroit too but they are in it and it's exciting. They leapt ahead of the Sabres and they are a lesson in how to do it properly by comparison. 

I think trying to look for similarities is a mistake (all rebuilds have some similarities). The key is to look at the differences, even if they seem small. 

To me, the thing to remember is that we were right there. One point out. We finished 22-23 with 2 more points than what Montreal is on pace for this year.  Adams had us on the brink, and then p!$$3d it away on a “don’t block the kids” philosophy and on a flawed concept of roster construction. I read an interview with Montreal GM Kent Hughes where he actually spoke about learning from the mistakes made by the Sabres. How sad is it that other teams are learning more from Adams’s mistakes, than Adams has learned?

[Doohickie]

12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not exactly the same but yes, I suppose that was a failed gamble. Really the worst part of that was giving him the trade protection where he could demand Bruins and thus we got a crap return as well. 

Bringing in Staal, Hall, Eakin, etc., I thought was the start of balancing out the team with veterans.  At season's start, I thought that was the year.  But Jack's injury and the utter failure of the vets brought in (on the whole) just messed everything up.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

At the time, Hall was much more highly regarded than he is now. I’m sure he had other offers. I doubt he would have taken a one year deal with the Sabres, in the middle of Covid, without a full NTC. Without the NTC, he almost certainly does not sign with the Sabres. 

That's not entirely true. There were question marks. He didn't sign quickly. Lots of teams passed on him. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

To me, the thing to remember is that we were right there. One point out. We finished 22-23 with 2 more points than what Montreal is on pace for this year.  Adams had us on the brink, and then p!$$3d it away on a “don’t block the kids” philosophy and on a flawed concept of roster construction. I read an interview with Montreal GM Kent Hughes where he actually spoke about learning from the mistakes made by the Sabres. How sad is it that other teams are learning more from Adams’s mistakes, than Adams has learned?

No, the one point out narrative is a false one to follow. We were not that good. We went on a late roll as teams took us lightly. The team was not that good and not that different from what it is now. 

Adams has failed to construct a proper balanced roster. The team has had internal cultural issues this year (which they've claimed to have fixed now but we shall see). Nothing has really improved yet for some reason (called Terry Pegula) he still has a job. 

Just wait until he trades Peterka for Rempe 😉

 

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Doohicksie said:

Bringing in Staal, Hall, Eakin, etc., I thought was the start of balancing out the team with veterans.  At season's start, I thought that was the year.  But Jack's injury and the utter failure of the vets brought in (on the whole) just messed everything up.

True, and to some extent he's tried to bring in veterans along the way. Erik Johnson was a Staal like attempt to bring in a veteran leader. He overpaid Zucker to get him here. Zucker isn't bad, he's a decent player when healthy, but it's not enough and overall he has failed at bringing in veterans. 

So Adams complains he has tried but it's "hard". "No palm trees". blah blah blah. Ultimately he's failed and that's it. Can anyone succeed with the franchise where it is? Likely not easily. So if free agents won't come, the only option would be to overpay in some trades. Get the guys you need any way you can in order to change the mix and right the ship. 

The McLeod trade was the right idea. He needs to make 3 or 4 more of those. I personally don't care if on paper he "loses" every one of those deals if those deals make this team on the ice better.

[DarthEbriate]

Colorado taking the Sens out behind the proverbial woodshed this evening. 5-0 after two and it doesn't feel that close.

Cozens 2-7 on the faceoff with two losses leading directly to COL goals; one hit, and one sloppy late interference penalty that led a COL PPG in the opening minutes of the 2nd period. He's looked like he looked in many a Sabres game this season. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

Colorado taking the Sens out behind the proverbial woodshed this evening. 5-0 after two and it doesn't feel that close.

Cozens 2-7 on the faceoff with two losses leading directly to COL goals; one hit, and one sloppy late interference penalty that led a COL PPG in the opening minutes of the 2nd period. He's looked like he looked in many a Sabres game this season. 

But but, he scored 2 goals! He's elite now! 

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Colorado taking the Sens out behind the proverbial woodshed this evening. 5-0 after two and it doesn't feel that close.

Cozens 2-7 on the faceoff with two losses leading directly to COL goals; one hit, and one sloppy late interference penalty that led a COL PPG in the opening minutes of the 2nd period. He's looked like he looked in many a Sabres game this season. 

Our Stanley cup will be if Ottawa misses the playoffs 

Edited March 21 by Thorner