Sabres Training Camp Thread

[ska-T Palmtown]

I want to jump in and ask if a player can sign their ELC during a season ... but I am afraid of getting hit in the crossfire. I hate it when dad and dad fight!

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

No he isn't. He hasn't signed a contract. I just checked EP again. 

He can sign a contract at any time.  He's in the CHL.

They easily could give him a signing bonus if necessary to get him to do a Biron.  But reading his interview and how stoked he was to get extra time in the "NHL" really doubt there'd be any issue getting him to sign.

1 minute ago, ska-T Chitown said:

I want to jump in and ask if a player can sign their ELC during a season ... but I am afraid of getting hit in the crossfire. I hate it when dad and dad fight!

A CHL player can.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He can sign a contract at any time.  He's in the CHL.

They easily could give him a signing bonus if necessary to get him to do a Biron.  But reading his interview and how stoked he was to get extra time in the "NHL" really doubt there'd be any issue getting him to sign.

A CHL player can.

They can't recall him until his CHL season ends. I'm fairly certain I've read that before. Once he's assigned to the WHL, that's where he plays. 

Also, I don't think scenario has even the remote possibility of happening. They'll send Levi down and have him play when UPL needs a rest. I don't think they'll waive Reimer.

Edited October 1 by LGR4GM

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

I want to jump in and ask if a player can sign their ELC during a season ... but I am afraid of getting hit in the crossfire. I hate it when dad and dad fight!

They can, but they can’t be called up to play mid season 

They’d have to be on roster to start it 

[Taro T]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

They can't recall him until his CHL season ends. I'm fairly certain I've read that before. Once he's assigned to the WHL, that's where he plays. 

Also, I don't think scenario has even the remote possibility of happening. They'll send Levi down and have him play when UPL needs a rest. I don't think they'll waive Reimer.

They CAN recall him on an EMERGENCY basis.  He can't stay up when there are healthy bodies to replace him.  But if there aren't any, he's good to go.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Thorner said:

They can, but they can’t be called up to play mid season 

They’d have to be on roster to start it 

Wrong.  A skater can be brought in from Junior upon the NHL team's 3rd "emergency recall."  IIRC goalies can be recalled sooner than that.  But CHL players CAN be put on the NHL team in the middle of the year on an emergency basis.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

They CAN recall him on an EMERGENCY basis.  He can't stay up when there are healthy bodies to replace him.  But if there aren't any, he's good to go.

I believe starting at emergency recall 3

Just now, Taro T said:

Wrong.  A skater can be brought in from Junior upon the NHL team's 3rd "emergency recall."  IIRC goalies can be recalled sooner than that.  But CHL players CAN be put on the NHL team in the middle of the year on an emergency basis.

lol 

wRoNg

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They can't recall him until his CHL season ends. I'm fairly certain I've read that before. Once he's assigned to the WHL, that's where he plays. 

Also, I don't think scenario has even the remote possibility of happening. They'll send Levi down and have him play when UPL needs a rest. I don't think they'll waive Reimer.

Ordinary recalls are a different beast than emergency recalls.  You are citing how the system works when the NHL team has a full healthy roster available to it.

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Wrong.  A skater can be brought in from Junior upon the NHL team's 3rd "emergency recall."  IIRC goalies can be recalled sooner than that.  But CHL players CAN be put on the NHL team in the middle of the year on an emergency basis.

The only stumbling block would be Ratzlaff's contract status.  I'd assume Ratzlaff would need to sign his ELC to be recalled, but I can't find a story that confirms this belief.  The Canadians brought up Owen Beck 2 seasons ago from the OHL, but Beck had signed his ELC before the season.  https://montrealhockeynow.com/2023/01/27/owen-beck-montreal-canadiens-recall-prospect-nhl-promotion-chl-habs/

 

[Thorner]

Sabres would also need to not have the cap space available for an ordinary recall - ie for all intents and purposes we can’t / won’t be doing an emergency recall

 

Never mind 3. We aren’t emergency recalling a CHL player this year 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The only stumbling block would be Ratzlaff's contract status.  I'd assume Ratzlaff would need to sign his ELC to be recalled, but I can't find a story that confirms this belief.  The Canadians brought up Owen Beck 2 seasons ago from the OHL, but Beck had signed his ELC before the season.  https://montrealhockeynow.com/2023/01/27/owen-beck-montreal-canadiens-recall-prospect-nhl-promotion-chl-habs/

 

Unless we don’t have the cap space for a regular recall, we won’t be calling up Ratzlaff

[GASabresIUFAN]

None of this matters anyway as Reimer will clear waivers.

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Sabres would also need to not have the cap space available for an ordinary recall - ie for all intents and purposes we can’t / won’t be doing an emergency recall

 

Never mind 3. We aren’t emergency recalling a CHL player this year 

No.  Emergency recalls meaning the team has less than 12 healthy F's, 6 healthy D, and 2 healthy G on the roster and need to exceed the 23 man roster limit to dress a full roster.  Am not referring to emergency rules governing having not enough cap space to allow for a full roster.

[Taro T]

And btw, what a beeyotch it is to try to find a copy of that agreement between the NHL & CHL (even the prior one from 2013 that was renewed through '29 in '22).  Apparently a copy of it was on the Oregon state website due to hearings on whether amateur athletes (CHL players) were to be treated as employees for Workman's Comp type benefits but it does not appear to still be there.

Should anyone know where a copy exists, would love to see a link or even how to find a hard copy.

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No.  Emergency recalls meaning the team has less than 12 healthy F's, 6 healthy D, and 2 healthy G on the roster and need to exceed the 23 man roster limit to dress a full roster.  Am not referring to emergency rules governing having not enough cap space to allow for a full roster.

This isn’t at all the rules I read 

One of the stipulations of using an emergency recall AT ALL is that you don’t have cap space for an ordinary recall

 

Anyways this is SO BORING lol I apologize for my part in this discussion to the board at large. I defer to taro from here in

[Thorner]

“NHL teams can perform an emergency recall if at any point they A) fall below either 18 healthy, game-available skaters or two healthy, game-available goaltenders on their active roster and B) have less than the league minimum salary plus $100,000 in available cap space.”

it’s AND, not OR 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/how-emergency-recalls-work-see-canucks-current-roster-crisis#

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The past two performances by Sandstrom solidify my belief there is NFW the Sabres can risk putting Reimer on waivers. If he gets claimed Sandstrom is one injury away from being the Sabres Backup 

 

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

None of this matters anyway as Reimer will clear waivers.

The Sabres have proceeded the entire camp as if Levi is ahead Reimer. In fact, Levi has been sharing play time equally with Luukkonen, exclusively with the “real team” - the team the Sabres have been explicitly been preparing for game 1, right down to the lines and the defence pairings.

In fact, I’m drawing a blank: did Reimer get any pre-season action at all?

Levi has also, by all accounts, played well - or at least done nothing that should lead someone to believe he has “lost” a training camp battle.

The Sabres signed Reimer with one of 2 plans in mind, either:

a) he was supposed to hold the fort as the NHL backup while Levi maximized his playing time and developed, or

b) he was supposed provide an excellent insurance policy as the team’s #3 if one of the presumptive duo stumbled due to poor play or misadventure.

Whatever the preferred plan was (and they’re behaving like it was B) the Sabres had a pretty good idea on how they were going to handle the waiver wire when Reimer was signed, and I’ve seen nothing that’s happened that should have altered their plan.

Whatever happens was probably the plan all along.

 

Edited October 1 by dudacek

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, Thorner said:

“NHL teams can perform an emergency recall if at any point they A) fall below either 18 healthy, game-available skaters or two healthy, game-available goaltenders on their active roster and B) have less than the league minimum salary plus $100,000 in available cap space.”

it’s AND, not OR 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/how-emergency-recalls-work-see-canucks-current-roster-crisis#

AGAIN, you are confusing an emergency recall due to cap space constraints with an emergency recall due to not having at least 12-6-2 available to a team.  They are NOT the same thing.  The CBA is very clear on how a team can utilize emergency recalls for reasons of illness, debilitating injury, or suspensions.

That article on the Canucks fan site is specifically describing how teams needing to use the "LA King salary emergency conditions" go about doing so.  And pretty sure (though not positive because it's been so long since it's applied to the Sabres) those teams have to play a 1st game down a man (or however many they're down) before getting to use that exemption.

Teams that AREN'T in salary cap hell can gain relief from illnesses and short term injuries all hitting at once without being forced to put the players that don't need to be on IR onto IR.  They have to prove they really do have the emergency but that's a pretty low hurdle to get over.

[PerreaultForever]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

The Sabres have proceeded the entire camp as if Levi is ahead Reimer. In fact, Levi has been sharing play time equally with Luukkonen, exclusively with the “real team” - the team the Sabres have been explicitly been preparing for game 1, right down to the lines and the defence pairings.

In fact, I’m drawing a blank: did Reimer get any pre-season action at all?

Levi has also, by all accounts, played well - or at least done nothing that should lead someone to believe he has “lost” a training camp battle.

The Sabres signed Reimer with one of 2 plans in mind, either:

a) he was supposed to hold the fort as the NHL backup while Levi maximized his playing time and developed, or

b) he was supposed provide an excellent insurance policy as the team’s #3 if one of the presumptive duo stumbled due to poor play or misadventure.

Whatever the preferred plan was (and they’re behaving like it was B) the Sabres had a pretty good idea on how they were going to handle the waiver wire when Reimer was signed, and I’ve seen nothing that’s happened that should have altered their plan.

Whatever happens was probably the plan all along.

 

At this point I think they plan to go with the 3 headed monster again. At least to start. I don't like it, but I think that is what they will do. 

You'll have the 20 starters and then Krebs, Reimer and a D man (Bryson or maybe Gilbert) and that's it. Kulich, Johnson etc. called up if injuries hit.

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

At this point I think they plan to go with the 3 headed monster again. At least to start. I don't like it, but I think that is what they will do. 

You'll have the 20 starters and then Krebs, Reimer and a D man (Bryson or maybe Gilbert) and that's it. Kulich, Johnson etc. called up if injuries hit.

Why do you think they will do this?

And how do you think it will work?

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

AGAIN, you are confusing an emergency recall due to cap space constraints with an emergency recall due to not having at least 12-6-2 available to a team.  They are NOT the same thing.  The CBA is very clear on how a team can utilize emergency recalls for reasons of illness, debilitating injury, or suspensions.

That article on the Canucks fan site is specifically describing how teams needing to use the "LA King salary emergency conditions" go about doing so.  And pretty sure (though not positive because it's been so long since it's applied to the Sabres) those teams have to play a 1st game down a man (or however many they're down) before getting to use that exemption.

Teams that AREN'T in salary cap hell can gain relief from illnesses and short term injuries all hitting at once without being forced to put the players that don't need to be on IR onto IR.  They have to prove they really do have the emergency but that's a pretty low hurdle to get over.

I’ll agree to disagree, simply because every single place I see the rule listed it’s not what you say - so I don’t think I’m confusing anything. (the link has the full rule, one of the conditions of an emergency recall in general is being cap strapped), but if you post an updated version of the official rules I quoted, I’d be happy to change my mind if I’m simply wrong 

otherwise, we can always see how it shakes out in season

Edited October 1 by Thorner

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Why do you think they will do this?

And how do you think it will work?

Because they did it last year. They won't waive Reimer because they'd be afraid he'd get claimed (maybe even Boston given the Swayman debacle) and they want to play Levi so they will keep all 3. If Levi isn't good he will get sent down later or if Levi is good maybe eventually they waive Reimer but not right away. Just a guess. 

How will it work? Fine, if they stay relatively healthy. 

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, Taro T said:

No.  Emergency recalls meaning the team has less than 12 healthy F's, 6 healthy D, and 2 healthy G on the roster and need to exceed the 23 man roster limit to dress a full roster.  Am not referring to emergency rules governing having not enough cap space to allow for a full roster.

But they'd have to dip into the AHL affiliate first. 

 

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

Wrong.  A skater can be brought in from Junior upon the NHL team's 3rd "emergency recall."  IIRC goalies can be recalled sooner than that.  But CHL players CAN be put on the NHL team in the middle of the year on an emergency basis.

If the team doesn't have an NHL affiliated goalie, aka no one in the AHL is available. So every goalie but 1 would have to be injured from Buffalo and Rochester and then Buffalo could callup Ratzlaff. That's always been my understanding of the rule. They can't just ignore Sandstrom and call up Ratzlaff 

[That Aud Smell]

[Derrico]

11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The past two performances by Sandstrom solidify my belief there is NFW the Sabres can risk putting Reimer on waivers. If he gets claimed Sandstrom is one injury away from being the Sabres Backup 

Agreed.  But what does this mean in reality if they want Levi backing up UPL?  Reimer takes up a spot on their active roster as the third goalie?  Also doesn’t seem like a great idea.