Sabres Training Camp Thread

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, pastajoe said:

What happened to Amerks captain Michael Mersch? They just didn’t resign him? If so, who will be the new captain? Prow, Murray, Kulich?

Mersch was not re-signed. Prow and Murray (and Jobst?) were wearing As yesterday.

Edited September 25 by dudacek

[shrader]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Mersch was not re-signed. Prow and Murray (and Jobst?) we’re wearing As yesterday.

He is currently a free agent. 

[FrenchConnection44]

On 9/24/2024 at 10:19 AM, Brawndo said:

Here are the 27 going to Europe 

 

The most glaring feature of that list is 9 defensemen and no Ryan Johnson. First round pick in 2018 and he’s 23. He should be a starter if not 2nd line at least by now. Looking increasingly like a bust. Even when he was at Minnesota he didn’t look special or exceptional to me at that level. 

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

The most glaring feature of that list is 9 defensemen and no Ryan Johnson. First round pick in 2018 and he’s 23. He should be a starter if not 2nd line at least by now. Looking increasingly like a bust. Even when he was at Minnesota he didn’t look special or exceptional to me at that level. 

Considering 1/2 of the Sabres D are former #1, #1, and #4 overalls, and about 1/3 - 1/2 of the F's are 23 or younger, and both goalies are 25 (26?) or younger it seems we generally are used to really young guys being in really major roles.  But a guy from literally the end of the 1st round not being a full time NHLer in only his 2nd pro season (and he had ~1/2 a season up on the big club last year) on a team that's already too young starting the year in the AHL doesn't make him a bust.

Have said it's interesting (and mildly surprising) that they chose Clague instead of Johnson, but when you figure that if Clague is a game they're down 3 D-men, can see where Ruff would rather have a veteran tweener than a comparable (at this time) to slightly better kid getting thrown into the fire.

[PerreaultForever]

29 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

The most glaring feature of that list is 9 defensemen and no Ryan Johnson. First round pick in 2018 and he’s 23. He should be a starter if not 2nd line at least by now. Looking increasingly like a bust. Even when he was at Minnesota he didn’t look special or exceptional to me at that level. 

This in no way makes him a bust. 23 is not old for a D man and he needs ice time, not sitting in the press box as 8th or 9th D. You want him to be #1 in Rochester and developing as the potential replacement for Byram or Jokiharju should they not be part of next year's team.

Waiver rules also factor into these decisions. 

[FrenchConnection44]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

This in no way makes him a bust. 23 is not old for a D man and he needs ice time, not sitting in the press box as 8th or 9th D. You want him to be #1 in Rochester and developing as the potential replacement for Byram or Jokiharju should they not be part of next year's team.

Waiver rules also factor into these decisions. 

He’s not yet a bust. That’s a more accurate wording. ( the waiver rules and lack of playing time on the trip make sense - given he’s not making the team)

But it’s still a disappointment, imo, that he’s not able to make the team - on a team that  had 84 points last year. 

[Doohicksie]

11 hours ago, Taro T said:

11 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

The most glaring feature of that list is 9 defensemen and no Ryan Johnson. First round pick in 2018 and he’s 23. He should be a starter if not 2nd line at least by now. Looking increasingly like a bust. Even when he was at Minnesota he didn’t look special or exceptional to me at that level. 

Considering 1/2 of the Sabres D are former #1, #1, and #4 overalls, and about 1/3 - 1/2 of the F's are 23 or younger, and both goalies are 25 (26?) or younger it seems we generally are used to really young guys being in really major roles.  But a guy from literally the end of the 1st round not being a full time NHLer in only his 2nd pro season (and he had ~1/2 a season up on the big club last year) on a team that's already too young starting the year in the AHL doesn't make him a bust.

RYAN JOHNSON WILL BE FINE.

[pi2000]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

This in no way makes him a bust. 23 is not old for a D man and he needs ice time, not sitting in the press box as 8th or 9th D. You want him to be #1 in Rochester and developing as the potential replacement for Byram or Jokiharju should they not be part of next year's team.

Waiver rules also factor into these decisions. 

I like him as a player, but feel he'll be a key piece in a future trade with his home town team, Anaheim... similar to Savoie being moved to Edmonton.

The emergence of Novikov and Komarov will make him expendable.

[DarthEbriate]

12 hours ago, Taro T said:

Considering 1/2 of the Sabres D are former #1, #1, and #4 overalls, and about 1/3 - 1/2 of the F's are 23 or younger, and both goalies are 25 (26?) or younger it seems we generally are used to really young guys being in really major roles.  But a guy from literally the end of the 1st round not being a full time NHLer in only his 2nd pro season (and he had ~1/2 a season up on the big club last year) on a team that's already too young starting the year in the AHL doesn't make him a bust.

Not only that. #1, #1, #4, #29 (Jokiharju), #31 (Johnson), #32 (Samuelsson - who was a 2nd, but would be a 1st in a draft held today), and Clifton as a recent UFA right-handed signee. For two weeks and only two overseas regular season games, you want the (waivers-eligible) odd man out getting plenty of ice time.

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

I like him as a player, but feel he'll be a key piece in a future trade with his home town team, Anaheim... similar to Savoie being moved to Edmonton.

The emergence of Novikov and Komarov will make him expendable.

And don't forget Strbak. But Johnson's role isn't to replace Clifton (or Byram). It's likely to replace Bryson. Johnson is a future Pysyk.

Edited September 26 by DarthEbriate

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

He’s not yet a bust. That’s a more accurate wording. ( the waiver rules and lack of playing time on the trip make sense - given he’s not making the team)

But it’s still a disappointment, imo, that he’s not able to make the team - on a team that  had 84 points last year. 

Where would you put him on this team? Why should he be better than Dahlin, Power, Byram?

13 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

The most glaring feature of that list is 9 defensemen and no Ryan Johnson. First round pick in 2018 and he’s 23. He should be a starter if not 2nd line at least by now. Looking increasingly like a bust. Even when he was at Minnesota he didn’t look special or exceptional to me at that level. 

Since you used his draft pedigree earlier as part of your reasoning, which of the 1st, 1st, 4th, 29th, 32nd overalls picks do you think he is better than and should replace? 

Your argument is basically that LHD Ryan Johnson should somehow be better than at least 1 of these 4 LHD, Rasmus Dahlin, Owen Power, Bowen Byram, Mattias Samuelsson, or RHD Henri Jokiharju. With the exception of Samuelsson, all the rest were drafted in 2018 or after and drafted higher. 

Also of note, Johnson was a 2019 draft pick, not a 2018. 

FTR, I wouldn't have signed in Buffalo if I were Johnson. The lineup is stacked against him and honestly he might just be a tweener. You miss on about half your first round picks give or take. Missing on Johsnon and Rosen wouldn't surprise me in the least. 

[Flashsabre]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Where would you put him on this team? Why should he be better than Dahlin, Power, Byram?

Since you used his draft pedigree earlier as part of your reasoning, which of the 1st, 1st, 4th, 29th, 32nd overalls picks do you think he is better than and should replace? 

Your argument is basically that LHD Ryan Johnson should somehow be better than at least 1 of these 4 LHD, Rasmus Dahlin, Owen Power, Bowen Byram, Mattias Samuelsson, or RHD Henri Jokiharju. With the exception of Samuelsson, all the rest were drafted in 2018 or after and drafted higher. 

Also of note, Johnson was a 2019 draft pick, not a 2018. 

FTR, I wouldn't have signed in Buffalo if I were Johnson. The lineup is stacked against him and honestly he might just be a tweener. You miss on about half your first round picks give or take. Missing on Johsnon and Rosen wouldn't surprise me in the least. 

I don’t think they missed on Johnson or Rosen. Neither might be long term Sabres but like Savoie they can be used to get different pieces they need.

I think both Johnson and Rosen will be NHLers for a long period of time. Just not convinced they will be Sabres.

[LGR4GM]

21 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I don’t think they missed on Johnson or Rosen. Neither might be long term Sabres but like Savoie they can be used to get different pieces they need.

I think both Johnson and Rosen will be NHLers for a long period of time. Just not convinced they will be Sabres.

I will believe it when I see it. I do not think either player will be NHLers for a long time (aka 5+ seasons). 

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

I don’t think they missed on Johnson or Rosen. Neither might be long term Sabres but like Savoie they can be used to get different pieces they need.

I think both Johnson and Rosen will be NHLers for a long period of time. Just not convinced they will be Sabres.

I really hope we get to that point where pieces are moved for big time help today. They have so much ammo. But until I see more, I feel like the Savoie deal is the exception and not the rule. 
 

Have they moved any other higher end prospects since Tim Murray was spending them haphazardly?  Nylander I guess. 

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, shrader said:

I really hope we get to that point where pieces are moved for big time help today. They have so much ammo. But until I see more, I feel like the Savoie deal is the exception and not the rule. 
 

Have they moved any other higher end prospects since Tim Murray was spending them haphazardly?  Nylander I guess. 

Adams has had 8 1st rounders and 9 2nds over 5 drafts.

He’s traded 2 of those picks (2nd rounders for Malenstyn and Greenway) and one of the prospects he’s taken with them (Savoie).

1st-rounders Benson, Power and Quinn and 2nd-rounder Peterka are with the team.

1st-rounders Helenius, Östlund, Kulich, Rosen and 2nd-rounders Kleber, Wahlberg, Strbak, Leinonen, Poltapov and Kisakov are still in the system.

He also traded Botterill high pick Mittelstadt, keeping UPL, Dahlin, Samuelsson, Cozens and Johnson

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

He’s not yet a bust. That’s a more accurate wording. ( the waiver rules and lack of playing time on the trip make sense - given he’s not making the team)

But it’s still a disappointment, imo, that he’s not able to make the team - on a team that  had 84 points last year. 

But also a team that drafted 2 D men first overall. 

The numbers game changed when they traded Mitts for Byram. I'm not saying I liked the trade (I didn't) but that deal left Johnson with no spot at this time unless they move a D man or they don't pay one next year. 

Arguably, the D might be considered "good" when Clifton became the 7th or 8th man like he was in Boston. 

[Thorner]

37 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Adams has had 8 1st rounders and 9 2nds over 5 drafts.

He’s traded 2 of those picks (2nd rounders for Malenstyn and Greenway) and one of the prospects he’s taken with them (Savoie).

1st-rounders Benson, Power and Quinn and 2nd-rounder Peterka are with the team.

1st-rounders Helenius, Östlund, Kulich, Rosen and 2nd-rounders Kleber, Wahlberg, Strbak, Leinonen, Poltapov and Kisakov are still in the system.

He also traded Botterill high pick Mittelstadt, keeping UPL, Dahlin, Samuelsson, Cozens and Johnson

So, does that mean just Savoie? 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I like him as a player, but feel he'll be a key piece in a future trade with his home town team, Anaheim... similar to Savoie being moved to Edmonton.

The emergence of Novikov and Komarov will make him expendable.

IF they emerge.

Personally I think more might depend on how much money Byram wants and how important they think he is. Also Jokiharju. Management might feel we have too much money going into D and somebody might get moved and thus a spot open up. For next year.

[shrader]

28 minutes ago, Thorner said:

So, does that mean just Savoie? 

Ha, that was my take away.  The traded picks are a completely different animal than trading away a prospect you've invested time and resources in.  Quite honestly, the specific type of player I'm looking for is the GM trading away one of his own draft picks.  I'd say Adams has been around long enough now to look at that.  After Savoie, I think Bloom is the only Adams pick that has been traded and I wouldn't call him a high end prospect.

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, shrader said:

Ha, that was my take away.  The traded picks are a completely different animal than trading away a prospect you've invested time and resources in.  Quite honestly, the specific type of player I'm looking for is the GM trading away one of his own draft picks.  I'd say Adams has been around long enough now to look at that.  After Savoie, I think Bloom is the only Adams pick that has been traded and I wouldn't call him a high end prospect.

Anecdotally there was almost as much angst when we dealt Bloom as when we dealt Savoie. Maybe more? Haha I could be wrong but I feel like more people than maybe they’d like to admit were still fully backing the “hoard prospects” train at the time we dealt Josh. Who knows. But ya, the Savoie trade was very refreshing and positive to me cause it did represent that big name prospect finally getting dealt 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

But also a team that drafted 2 D men first overall. 

The numbers game changed when they traded Mitts for Byram. I'm not saying I liked the trade (I didn't) but that deal left Johnson with no spot at this time unless they move a D man or they don't pay one next year. 

Arguably, the D might be considered "good" when Clifton became the 7th or 8th man like he was in Boston. 

And the legend of the Bs grows some more.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

Ha, that was my take away.  The traded picks are a completely different animal than trading away a prospect you've invested time and resources in.  Quite honestly, the specific type of player I'm looking for is the GM trading away one of his own draft picks.  I'd say Adams has been around long enough now to look at that.  After Savoie, I think Bloom is the only Adams pick that has been traded and I wouldn't call him a high end prospect.

Near as I can see, since Adams has become a GM, 4 GMs in addition to Adams, have traded a prospect they personally picked in the 1st-round:

• Tom Fitzgerald traded Alex Holtz and Shakir Muhkamadulin
• Bill Armstrong traded Conor Geekie
• Kevin Chevaldayoff  traded Rutger McGroarty (because he had to)
• Kyle Dubas traded Brayden Yager (for McGroarty)

EDIT, missed one Vegas' McCrimmon traded David Edstrom the last pick in the 2023 1st round

 

Edited September 26 by dudacek

[Flashsabre]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Near as I can see, since Adams has become a GM, 4 GMs in addition to Adams, have traded a prospect they personally picked in the 1st-round:

• Tom Fitzgerald traded Alex Holtz and Shakir Muhkamadulin
• Bill Armstrong traded Conor Geekie
• Kevin Chevaldayoff  traded Rutger McGroarty (because he had to)
• Kyle Dubas traded Brayden Yager (for McGroarty)

EDIT, missed one Vegas' McCrimmon traded David Edstrom the last pick in the 2023 1st round

 

Vegas has traded every draft pick they have ever picked😜

(This is sarcasm)

Edited September 26 by Flashsabre

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

And the legend of the Bs grows some more.

No, but their D has been a strength and has been much better than the Sabres have had. This is why we got Clifton. They paid him minimum like a sub, which is what he was there. They wanted bigger for their 6/7 D. 

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Near as I can see, since Adams has become a GM, 4 GMs in addition to Adams, have traded a prospect they personally picked in the 1st-round:

• Tom Fitzgerald traded Alex Holtz and Shakir Muhkamadulin
• Bill Armstrong traded Conor Geekie
• Kevin Chevaldayoff  traded Rutger McGroarty (because he had to)
• Kyle Dubas traded Brayden Yager (for McGroarty)

EDIT, missed one Vegas' McCrimmon traded David Edstrom the last pick in the 2023 1st round

 

Realistically drawing the line at “that they personally picked” is arbitrary - though I understand you were responding specifically to that stipulation 

I don’t think KA values “his” picks more: Cozens is HIS guy, to him, because he locked him up LT. Tage is HIS guy because he kept him while dealing Mittelstadt, etc etc. I highly doubt Dahlin loses anything in perception because he wasn’t personally selected by the GM 

He probably views each guy he retains or adds as a piece of his puzzle. He just have Samuelsson a letter, etc 

Edited September 27 by Thorner

[LGR4GM]

14 hours ago, dudacek said:

And the legend of the Bs grows some more.

Who even are Bostons top 6? 

McAvoy, Lindholm, Carlo, Zadorov, Peeke, Lohrei

... man, looking over Bostons roster, it's not great. 

Edited September 27 by LGR4GM