Sabres Training Camp Thread

[Stads]

8 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

I do not like Owen and Bo.

I would not like to see them grow.

I WOULD NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.

I WOULD NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE.

Would you like them away from our house?

Would  you play them against Lawson Crouse?

Will they skate themselves into the Box?

Can they shut down Adam Fox?

Would you could you against the Stars?

Play them, play them, there they are.

Would you, could you wearing the Goat?

I will not,  please don’t is my quote. 
 

I would not could not under Lindy’s reign

Do you have a beef with Owen’s Mane? 
 

I do not like Owen and Bo.

split them, split them, that’s fo-show.

 

 

Bravo good sir

[SABRES 0311]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

With so little time to get ready for the season, and with Benson looking so good in the game last night and apparently in the scrimmages too, would be surprised if Ruff did swap them anytime soon.

I’m sure practice/scrimmages are offering Ruff a good look but there’s no substitute for in game. Not disagreeing with your take on little time. I just think at least one game for each at 2LW is a reward outweighing the cost situation.

[Mango]

On 9/21/2024 at 11:26 AM, Archie Lee said:

That's not really countering my point.  I'm not arguing that Cozens isn't or shouldn't be ready to be good, I'm arguing the opposite and adding that it is time to give him two wingers who are already there.

There comes a time when we have to fully support a player (in this case Cozens), by surrounding him with players who will help him be successful. This is not a shot against Quinn and Benson, nor am I fully discounting the possibility that together they might be great. Dylan Cozens would have a better chance to be a fully impactful player if his line-mates were the equivalent of what we project Quinn and Benson to be 3-4 years from now. I submit that this is self-evident.

Totally misses the point though.  Cozens may well be and should be ready.  The same can't be so definitively said about his projected line-mates though.

Cozens doesn’t need two wingers. He needs to be moved to the wing and we need to stop revolving our lines around “getting Cozens going”.

He gets a lot of favorable treatment for a kid who has been our 3rd best center the last year and a half. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Looking forward to seeing Greenway, McLeod, and Zucker. At this point the biggest unknown is which of Zucker or Benson goes to 2LW and the other goes to the third line. 

Benson looked good last night and his highlights were stick checking, positioning, and tenacity. All quality traits of a defensive forward but help create O-zone time. 

I know pretty much nothing of Zucker and would like to see a game with him at 2LW to compare. Same with Benson on the third line. Maybe one where the two each play half the game at each position.

Zucker isn't great at anything but he isn't bad at anything either. I think he'd be a stabilizing force if it's needed and the second line struggles but Benson is going to be the much more dynamic player and really should be the 2nd line guy. 

Mind you McLeod is pretty fast so pairing him with Benson might yield benefits as well. 

[nfreeman]

Here's some good news:

 

[mjd1001]

13 hours ago, Mango said:

Cozens doesn’t need two wingers. He needs to be moved to the wing and we need to stop revolving our lines around “getting Cozens going”.

He gets a lot of favorable treatment for a kid who has been our 3rd best center the last year and a half. 

I agree 100%, and I know a few of you are sick of me saying it.

Cozens wants to go to the corners, he wants to bang along the walls, he wants to chase the puck.

Cozens does not want to to be in the defensive zone and 'hang out in the slot' to make sure someone from the other team doesn't 'step into' that area.  To equate it to football, Cozens is not good at, nor does he want to play zone defense. He wants to get in the WR's face and play a very physical bump and run coverage.

I need that player at wing. I do not need, nor want, that player at center.

[Archie Lee]

14 hours ago, Mango said:

Cozens doesn’t need two wingers. He needs to be moved to the wing and we need to stop revolving our lines around “getting Cozens going”.

He gets a lot of favorable treatment for a kid who has been our 3rd best center the last year and a half. 

I missed this entirely...what are all these examples of us changing lines with the intention of "getting Cozens going"?  I don't recall a single instance of this.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree 100%, and I know a few of you are sick of me saying it.

Cozens wants to go to the corners, he wants to bang along the walls, he wants to chase the puck.

Cozens does not want to to be in the defensive zone and 'hang out in the slot' to make sure someone from the other team doesn't 'step into' that area.  To equate it to football, Cozens is not good at, nor does he want to play zone defense. He wants to get in the WR's face and play a very physical bump and run coverage.

I need that player at wing. I do not need, nor want, that player at center.

The only solution currently would be to put Quinn at center and move Cozens to RW. 

[Rasmus_]

On 9/22/2024 at 11:01 AM, Broken Ankles said:

I do not like Owen and Bo.

I would not like to see them grow.

I WOULD NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.

I WOULD NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE.

Would you like them away from our house?

Would  you play them against Lawson Crouse?

Will they skate themselves into the Box?

Can they shut down Adam Fox?

Would you could you against the Stars?

Play them, play them, there they are.

Would you, could you wearing the Goat?

I will not,  please don’t is my quote. 
 

I would not could not under Lindy’s reign

Do you have a beef with Owen’s Mane? 
 

I do not like Owen and Bo.

split them, split them, that’s fo-show.

 

 

Brilliant!  Well done and I agree.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The only solution currently would be to put Quinn at center and move Cozens to RW. 

If Rodrigues with his limited skill set could become a passable C, wouldn't be shocked if Quinn could also do so. 

And, giving Cozens some help at C in his own zone could be a part of why Benson remains on that line and Peterka on Thompson's line.  Thompson is better in his own zone than Dylan is, so only having Tuch helping carry the C responsibilities in zone is typically enough assistance; whereas Cozens gets 2 very savvy W's to help him make it work.  Playing C by committee isn't the worst thing to have happen.

Plus, in Cozen's behalf, he entered the league under Krueger and has spent the bulk of his career under Granato.  He hasn't even been on the ice for a full week with Ruff teaching him some actual systems to be playing.  4 years worth of bad habits won't necessarily be overcome in the 1st 4-6 days.

But am kind of interested in how the board is starting to see Cozens as a W (shoutout to @mjd1001 for putting in the work to move that needle); when he came into the league that he'd ever move to W was a very unpopular opinion.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Haven't all NHL forwards spent time at center at some point in their careers be it juniors, college, AHL, Europe etc....  Usually they are the best player on their lower teams and the coaches invariably place them at center because of it.  That's not to say that the NHL isn't a whole different level, but it shouldn’t be as hard a transition as people think if the player has a few years on NHL experience.  Thompson is a classic example.  He was a center in college.  Mitts played center in high school, center and wing in college and center and wing in the NHL.  Almost all our top prospects, Kulich, Wahlberg, Östlund, Rosen, and Helenius have spent time at center and the wing.  

I wouldn't mind at all seeing JJP, Benson or Quinn get a look at center.  Watching JJP feed Stutzle at Worlds makes he thing he'd excel as a center.  

I like the idea of Cozens at RW.  He seems to blossom there are Worlds each time he plays there.  

Edited September 23 by GASabresIUFAN

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Haven't all NHL forwards spent time at center at some point in their careers be it juniors, college, AHL, Europe etc....  Usually they are the best player on their lower teams and the coaches invariably place them at center because of it.  That's not to say that the NHL isn't a whole different level, but it should be a s hard a transition as people think if the player has a few years on NHL experience.  Thompson is a classic example.  He was a center in college.  Mitts played center in high school, center and wing in college and center and wing in the NHL.  Almost all our top prospects, Kulich, Wahlberg, Östlund, Rosen, and Helenius have spent time at center and the wing.  

I wouldn't mind at all seeing JJP, Benson or Quinn get a look at center.  Watching JJP feed Stutzle at Worlds makes he thing he'd excel as a center.  

I like the idea of Cozens at RW.  He seems to blossom there are Worlds each time he plays there.  

I think Benson might be good there.  He plays the game without many mistakes. He seems to be very coachable.  He'll play physical when needed, but he's not a huge guy to bang on the boards all the time.

I think he'd learn where he needs to be and would be there. I'm not saying he would be great there, but as you said I'd like to see him with a chance at center.

[Mango]

5 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I missed this entirely...what are all these examples of us changing lines with the intention of "getting Cozens going"?  I don't recall a single instance of this.

You don’t ever recall Cozens being moved all around the lines last year, giving hime Tage, Tuch, Quinn, and Peterka, despite the fact that he’s clearly been the 3rd best center on the team.

HE Double hockey sticks, we traded the best center on the team to clear the deck for Cozens to center the second line. 

[dudacek]

I never thought anyone could possibly challenge Owen Power for the the honour, but somehow Dylan Cozens has become the most underrated player on Sabrespace.

[Brawndo]

 

[spndnchz]

He was practicing this morning on the ice

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

I never thought anyone could possibly challenge Owen Power for the the honour, but somehow Dylan Cozens has become the most underrated player on Sabrespace.

I think it's fair to say his contract makes the expectation higher. He's currently not living up to what Adams paid him. 

[ska-T Chitown]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think it's fair to say his contract makes the expectation higher. He's currently not living up to what Adams paid him. 

Isn't this season, the one that has not started, the first of his new contract? He was probably a bargain on his rookie deal last year, no?

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, ska-T Chitown said:

Isn't this season, the one that has not started, the first of his new contract? He was probably a bargain on his rookie deal last year, no?

Yes, this is year 1 of Power's 7 year deal. His 8.35mil is probably the salary of a 50pt, 10g, top defender with good defensive metrics. Depending on his development over the summer, he could be that. I think having Dahlin around helps because it is another 1st overall defender he can not only lean on but share experience with. Lots to prove from our young Power. 

[ska-T Chitown]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes, this is year 1 of Power's 7 year deal. His 8.35mil is probably the salary of a 50pt, 10g, top defender with good defensive metrics. Depending on his development over the summer, he could be that. I think having Dahlin around helps because it is another 1st overall defender he can not only lean on but share experience with. Lots to prove from our young Power. 

Agreed. To be clear - he should have high expectations this year. It is interesting to me that the Sabres have two #1 and a #4 pick on defense, all of approximately the same age. It is probably better for their overall games, but also probably shaves a little off the top end of the statistics of each, since if they were the only "top pick" D-man on a team, all the stats are belong to them.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

Agreed. To be clear - he should have high expectations this year. It is interesting to me that the Sabres have two #1 and a #4 pick on defense, all of approximately the same age. It is probably better for their overall games, but also probably shaves a little off the top end of the statistics of each, since if they were the only "top pick" D-man on a team, all the stats are belong to them.

Having Power and Byram around will not shave anything off Dahlin's stats.  Having Dahlin around will likely shave points off the other 2 as he'll get the top PP ice time.  But, at least 1 of them might get a bit of a boost from having him around as the one(s) that don't end up partnered with Dahlin will be facing softer competition than the guy that ends up his partner.

[ska-T Chitown]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Having Power and Byram around will not shave anything off Dahlin's stats.  Having Dahlin around will likely shave points off the other 2 as he'll get the top PP ice time.  But, at least 1 of them might get a bit of a boost from having him around as the one(s) that don't end up partnered with Dahlin will be facing softer competition than the guy that ends up his partner.

To put it another way, my theory is that if they only had Bo-Power or Pow-lin, the two high draft picks on the roster end up with more points than they do when you add in a third super high-end Dman. Does it affect Ras as much as the others? Probably not, the puck will be on his stick plenty. But obviously Bo-Power each have more points if Ras is not there. I guess maybe my point is that Power (and probably Byram) would have more points if they were THE guy on a different "up and coming" team, so judging them purely on points might be a touch unfair?

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, ska-T Chitown said:

To put it another way, my theory is that if they only had Bo-Power or Pow-lin, the two high draft picks on the roster end up with more points than they do when you add in a third super high-end Dman. Does it affect Ras as much as the others? Probably not, the puck will be on his stick plenty. But obviously Bo-Power each have more points if Ras is not there. I guess maybe my point is that Power (and probably Byram) would have more points if they were THE guy on a different "up and coming" team, so judging them purely on points might be a touch unfair?

Agreed that having Dahlin around will shave points from the other 2.  But do not agree that either will materially reduce what Dahlin does.  If anything, they will help him be even better because once they develop (in theory) they should allow Dahlin to get some breaks from ALWAYS having the toughest matchups.

[Brawndo]

Dahlin is at practice as a full participant 

[dudacek]

58 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Agreed that having Dahlin around will shave points from the other 2.  But do not agree that either will materially reduce what Dahlin does.  If anything, they will help him be even better because once they develop (in theory) they should allow Dahlin to get some breaks from ALWAYS having the toughest matchups.

I see no reason why Dahlin returning would affect either of those 2 in terms of deployment and/or production.

Lindy's game plan over the first 2 exhibitions seemed to be "play your regular season lineup as much as possible". And the workaround for Dahlin's injury was to plug Jokiharju into Dahlin's role entirely.

There is no reason he couldn't use Byram and Power exactly like they were used the past 2 games. And I suspect he will for as long as they hold their own against NHLers.

Given the underlying numbers of Dahlin/Joki in the past, and the way Henri has played so far, I think he starts with Ras.

Particularly because Mule/Clifton has some nice ruggedness I can see Lindy appreciating