Prospect Challenge Roster Announced

[pastajoe]

1 hour ago, Mustache of God said:

They should have Krebs on this team, to send a message.

Krebs is still unsigned. 

[bob_sauve28]

 

[Pimlach]

Kulich is now up to 6’1” and 190 lbs.   he is not small. 
 

Rosen is 6’0” and 176.  Still needs a few lbs but not a Smurf. 
 

[LGR4GM]

 

 

[pi2000]

If Helenius dominates, they'll trade Krebs.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Kulich is now up to 6’1” and 190 lbs.   he is not small. 
 

Rosen is 6’0” and 176.  Still needs a few lbs but not a Smurf. 
 

That seems pretty smurf-like to me. NHL average is over 200 lbs and at 6 ft. he should weigh more by now. Clearly isn't adding muscle. 

[tom webster]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That seems pretty smurf-like to me. NHL average is over 200 lbs and at 6 ft. he should weigh more by now. Clearly isn't adding muscle. 

NHL average is 6’1” and 198lbs to be exact

Edited September 12 by tom webster

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

NHL average is 6’1” and 198lbs to be exact

Exact? Source? 

I've seen a number of different numbers. 6'1.5" seems to be closest and 199 lbs but I did see over 200 as well < I think it's hard to be exact. 

regardless, Rosen is a lightweight. 

[tom webster]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Exact? Source? 

I've seen a number of different numbers. 6'1.5" seems to be closest and 199 lbs but I did see over 200 as well < I think it's hard to be exact. 

regardless, Rosen is a lightweight. 

Obviously the number changes slightly depending on roster moves but those were the exact numbers on opening day last year.

As for Rosen, I would go with light heavyweight but he plays a game I think you’d appreciate.

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That seems pretty smurf-like to me. NHL average is over 200 lbs and at 6 ft. he should weigh more by now. Clearly isn't adding muscle. 

 

9 hours ago, tom webster said:

NHL average is 6’1” and 198lbs to be exact

These numbers are higher than I thought.  Goalies and defenseman probably contributed to that. 

[Derrico]

Big prospect tourney and then enormous training camp for Rosen.  He’s going into D+4 season.  Time to piss or get off the pot. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

Obviously the number changes slightly depending on roster moves but those were the exact numbers on opening day last year.

As for Rosen, I would go with light heavyweight but he plays a game I think you’d appreciate.

I haven't seen him play. As he gets more physically developed is his game getting more physical indicating that he can handle the rigors of the NHL?

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Derrico said:

Big prospect tourney and then enormous training camp for Rosen.  He’s going into D+4 season.  Time to piss or get off the pot. 

We don’t seem to have any rookies actually pencilled into the lineup at this time unless I am much mistaken. Because we don’t seem to be strictly counting on any outright, or at least don’t appear to be, im starting to gradually warm to the idea we might get some unexpectedly beneficial results from one of them aka the pool. When available spots decrease, the likelihood we can fill them internally from youth obviously goes up: can one surprising youngster emerge from the several we have champing at the bit? I think yes.

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I haven't seen him play. As he gets more physically developed is his game getting more physical indicating that he can handle the rigors of the NHL?

Anecdote, so obviously only a snapshot in time and it could provide a very misleading picture.  But in that game that the Amerks got eliminated, there was exactly 1 memorable "Carubba collision" and that was Rosen absolutely destroying a guy just inside the Amerks blue line.  Had to do a double take to make sure it was him.  It was a hit that Campbell would've been proud of.  And it was a legal hit, unlike what many of Campbell's would be today.

So, maybe he can.

[LGR4GM]

I would note that looking at those height/weights, they are all from the official height/weights released by teams at the start of last year (unless I missed something, please correct me if I am wrong). I would guess we would need to wait until Sabres camp opens before getting updates, although teams are notoriously bad at updating stuff. 

That said, Rosen has a path to the NHL in a 3rd line role but idk when that could happen without injury. I would hope he is very much a central figure in this tournament after all the post AHL years he has. 

[_Q_]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

 

These numbers are higher than I thought.  Goalies and defenseman probably contributed to that. 

No doubt the defensemen skew those numbers higher and feed the narrative.

[DarthEbriate]

15 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That seems pretty smurf-like to me. NHL average is over 200 lbs and at 6 ft. he should weigh more by now. Clearly isn't adding muscle. 

Rosen is adding muscle, but he was a smurf when drafted (listed 5-11 161#).

2022 Dev Camp   5-11 156# (lighter than listed draft weight)
2023 Prospects   5-11 168# 
2024 Prospects   6-0 178#

Rosen is big enough to survive in the NHL. One more year of filling out and he'll probably be in the mid 180s, which is solid. By comparison, Kisakov is the guy who is struggling to really fill out: 150#, 164#, and now 165# (this Prospects Challenge). A long time ago, Patrick Kane was 5-10 165 as his listed draft weight; he's now 5-10 177# on the Wings roster.

[msw2112]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:35 AM, Taro T said:

What's odd about it?  The roster is the young Amerks and a handful of others to round out a tournament roster.  This is essentially getting the Amerks 3 extra games together.

Johnson, unless he has a crazy good camp, is Ra-cha-cha bound to start the year.

odd

/äd/

adjective

1.  different from what is usual or expected; strange.

As I mentioned in the initial post is that it's odd (to me) that a guy who played 41 NHL games last year (half of an NHL season) is playing in a game that is usually a roster of guys who have not played in the NHL at all or have played only a couple of games.  If I'm not mistaken, some of the guys in this tournament may not have even played in the AHL or played professional hockey at all.  I took a quick look at the roster and only 12 of the 22 played in Rochester last year and other than Ryan Johnson who played 41 NHL games, the only other players on the roster who played in an NHL game were Rosen (7 games) and Kulich (1 game).  So Johnson alone, has played more than 5 times the number of NHL games than the other 21 players combined.  I'd call that an outlier, or in other words, "odd."

Someone else pointed out, however, that Ruff might want to get a look at him and that makes sense to me.  He's a new coach and Johnson is a young player who is borderline to make the roster and may well end up in the AHL, so, although odd, there is some logic behind it.  Also, Leone, the new Rochester coach, is coaching the team, so a good opportunity for him to also get a look at Johnson.

Edited September 12 by msw2112

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

odd

/äd/

adjective

1.  different from what is usual or expected; strange.

As I mentioned in the initial post is that it's odd (to me) that a guy who played 41 NHL games last year (half of an NHL season) is playing in a game that is usually a roster of guys who have not played in the NHL at all or have played only a couple of games.  If I'm not mistaken, some of the guys in this tournament may not have even played in the AHL or played professional hockey at all.  I took a quick look at the roster and only 12 of the 22 played in Rochester last year and other than Ryan Johnson who played 41 NHL games, the only other players on the roster who played in an NHL game were Rosen (7 games) and Kulich (1 game).  So Johnson alone, has played more than 5 times the number of NHL games than the other 21 players combined.  I'd call that an outlier, or in other words, "odd."

Someone else pointed out, however, that Ruff might want to get a look at him and that makes sense to me.  He's a new coach and Johnson is a young player who is borderline to make the roster and may well end up in the AHL, so, although odd, there is some logic behind it.

And again, see this as an opportunity to get a look at all the Amerks that aren't going to qualify as vet exceptions along with a handful of other prospects.  

Johnson is firmly in the Amerk mix and will need a lot of things to break his way to be a Sabre coming out of camp.  Having a young guy slated to be an Amerk playing in this tournament doesn't seem odd at all, especially for one with all of a single season of professional hockey under his belt.

That the Sabres have been in the position that guys in his spot have been gifted an NHL roster spot prematurely for essentially a decade plus is what is odd.  (Not for the Sabres - it's SOP.  But for most of the rest of the league it's odd.)  While realistically he's likely 8th on the depth chart (ahead of Bryson), he doesn't need to clear waivers and they're going to want him playing rather than sitting in the press box in Buffalo.  Again, he's very likely an Amerk and an Amerk with only 1 year of pro experience.  He qualifies for the tourney and personally would find it odd if he WEREN'T playing in it.

Edited September 12 by Taro T

[Archie Lee]

4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Rosen is adding muscle, but he was a smurf when drafted (listed 5-11 161#).

2022 Dev Camp   5-11 156# (lighter than listed draft weight)
2023 Prospects   5-11 168# 
2024 Prospects   6-0 178#

Rosen is big enough to survive in the NHL. One more year of filling out and he'll probably be in the mid 180s, which is solid. By comparison, Kisakov is the guy who is struggling to really fill out: 150#, 164#, and now 165# (this Prospects Challenge). A long time ago, Patrick Kane was 5-10 165 as his listed draft weight; he's now 5-10 177# on the Wings roster.

By no means am I saying Rosen will be this type of player, but the guy he was typically compared to was Ehlers (fast, skilled, good defensively).  Ehlers has a very similar build.

[msw2112]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

And again, see this as an opportunity to get a look at all the Amerks that aren't going to qualify as vet exceptions along with a handful of other prospects.  

Johnson is firmly in the Amerk mix and will need a lot of things to break his way to be a Sabre coming out of camp.  Having a young guy slated to be an Amerk playing in this tournament doesn't seem odd at all, especially for one with all of a single season of professional hockey under his belt.

That the Sabres have been in the position that guys in his spot have been gifted an NHL roster spot prematurely for essentially a decade plus is what is odd.  (Not for the Sabres - it's SOP.  But for most of the rest of the league it's odd.)  While realistically he's likely 8th on the depth chart (ahead of Bryson), he doesn't need to clear waivers and they're going to want him playing rather than sitting in the press box in Buffalo.  Again, he's very likely an Amerk and an Amerk with only 1 year of pro experience.  He qualifies for the tourney and personally would find it odd if he WEREN'T playing in it.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I still find it a bit odd that a guy with 41 games of NHL experience is on a roster where the other 21 players have 8 games of NHL experience COMBINED.  Something can be odd, but still have a reasonable justification behind it.

An article in the Buffalo News implied that having Rosen and Kulich play in the tournament was an anamoly, given their previous participation and NHL experience, but circumstances this season led the Sabres to make this decision:

"Kulich and Rosen may have been given the weekend off in a normal year because they’ve previously appeared in the showcase and both are important depth pieces for the Sabres, but the unusual training camp – headlined by the club’s trip to Europe – caused general manager Kevyn Adams to add Kulich and Rosen to the roster.’"

All this said, I don't want to waste anyone's time further arguing an insignificant point that is really just a matter of opinion.  What I see as odd, you might not.  No big deal.  Let's just hope the Sabres improve and make the damn playoffs.

[DarthEbriate]

38 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

By no means am I saying Rosen will be this type of player, but the guy he was typically compared to was Ehlers (fast, skilled, good defensively).  Ehlers has a very similar build.

And you know who is bigger than Ehlers today (6-0 172# per nhl.com/Jets roster)?

2024 Dev Camp roster Rosen.

[dudacek]

33 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

And you know who is bigger than Ehlers today (6-0 172# per nhl.com/Jets roster)?

2024 Dev Camp roster Rosen.

Stuff like this is not irrelevant, but it doesn't matter nearly as much as the way a guy plays.

Rosen doesn't strike me as scared or particularly weak, but he's not strong either and not assertive enough in using his skill for my liking.

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, tom webster said:

Obviously the number changes slightly depending on roster moves but those were the exact numbers on opening day last year.

As for Rosen, I would go with light heavyweight but he plays a game I think you’d appreciate.

176lbs is not any kind of heavyweight.

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, Pimlach said:

 

These numbers are higher than I thought.  Goalies and defenseman probably contributed to that. 

Goalies are the tallest actually that's true. 6'3" average.   Surprisingly (maybe) D men are only about 4-5 lbs more than forwards on average and an inch taller on average. 

I wish their was a stat for how young guys sized up in comparison but there isn't that I could find. In any event if Rosen is 176 lbs he's a lightweight. 20 lbs below average is a lot.