Sabres on notice and everybody knows it

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

you're gonna make the man say it, aren't you?

#thisisobnoxious

We should really have a heart emoji @SDS

[Wyldnwoody44]

I'm legit so confused as to what's happening here. 

 

Do we love each other, hate each other or just tolerate each other? 

 

This team sucks, and they will continue to suck until they prove otherwise. 

[#freejame]

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Should be noted I partook in all of this while paying 5 bucks for this much Thai noodle salad

now THAT’S obnoxious 

You should really stop drinking pop

[Thorny]

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Easy there, that's PTR's schtick.  😉 

 

But back on point, yeah, it looks like they won't spend once again, but there's still time for that to merely be appearance and not reality.  The Aisles grabbed both Boychuk and Leddy essentially out of thin air right before the season kicked off the year the Sabres had their pick lined up to be unprotected.

They absolutely were still a discount team last year.  But, until the season kicks off and Terry pulls that football away at the last second am going to maintain hope that 2W is just a few weeks away.

Ya I mean once there’s no internal cap I’ll be happy to admit there isn’t one. Not that there never was one, mind you (and mind the I told you so’s) but that Pegula has lifted the constraints, definitely.

I’d imagine you expect them to be removed next season at the latest? 

[Cascade Youth]

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Easy there, that's PTR's schtick.  😉 

 

But back on point, yeah, it looks like they won't spend once again, but there's still time for that to merely be appearance and not reality.  The Aisles grabbed both Boychuk and Leddy essentially out of thin air right before the season kicked off the year the Sabres had their pick lined up to be unprotected.

They absolutely were still a discount team last year.  But, until the season kicks off and Terry pulls that football away at the last second am going to maintain hope that 2W is just a few weeks away.

I mean fair, yes, it’s possible they are going to stop doing what they’ve been doing for multiple consecutive years and look like they’re doing again - it’s fair to wait and see - but I would posit that if that’s the case it would cost them very little strategic advantage and would potentially gain them very much fan goodwill to say something to that effect - “We have cap room so that we can be flexible during the season while we expect to be contending for a playoff spot” - instead of Adams’ mealy-mouthed “I’m given enough resources to win” refrain which is capable of multiple meanings.

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, #freejame said:

You should really stop drinking pop

I know, it’s horrible for you. But I’m actually trying to gain a bit of weight. No excuses, but there you have it. It’s only 6 cans each.

Well, that, and the fact that ice cold coca-cola from a can is the greatest drink ever created 

Edited September 10 by Thorny

[dudacek]

@Taro T
 

Look at the ages.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000352009.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000552014.html

Some of the best teams of the cap era didn’t look too much different than this Sabres team before they started to emerge: a group of young players getting good at the same time.

This team had 99 points after missing the playoffs the previous 9 years in a row. (Oddly enough their biggest off-season moves were trading their talented young 2C for a talented young defenceman and dumping Jeff Skinner)

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0009792019.html

Pointing this out leads to me being called a Pegula/Adams apologist, but the plan is proven to work IF YOU PICK THE RIGHT PLAYERS.

Adams needs to prove he did.

Edited September 10 by dudacek

[Thorny]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

@Taro T
 

Look at the ages.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000352009.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000552014.html

Some of the best teams of the cap era didn’t look too much different than this Sabres team before they started to emerge: a group of young players getting good at the same time.

This team had 99 points after missing the playoffs the previous 9 years in a row. (Oddly enough their biggest off-season moves were trading their 2C for a talented young defenceman and dumping Jeff Skinner)

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0009792019.html

Pointing this out leads to me being called a Pegula/Adams apologist, but the plan is proven to work IF YOU PICK THE RIGHT PLAYERS.

Adams needs to prove he did.

It’s been proven it CAN work, if you pick the right players. That doesn’t make you an apologist. I don’t think anyone is saying it absolutely cannot be done. The Carolina team you point out is the same one Brawndo did: the exception that proves the rule. It doesn’t serve the argument because the most notable aspect of that team making it was that it was an anomaly in doing so. We know that team existed: it exists in the framework of the 2/160 that made the playoffs under the cap terms they did, in the last 10 years. The issue is the unlikelihood, not they they’ve chosen an impossible plan 

Now, change the equation to this team AT SOME POINT developing into one of the examples? Makes it more likely. But that ETA is very likely synced up with the cap returning to form’s ETA

the length of time we are supposed to be waiting around has been, well it’s been the key issue since Adams took over. The more things change the more they stay the same. We are still saying the same thing: when? 

to me, it’s never really been about “if”. Of course they will EVENTUALLY make the playoffs again. The contention is the timeline is putrid relative to league standards 

Edited September 10 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

It's not just about picking the "right players" though. We supposedly picked the wrong ones, but one by one they all went on to win cups elsewhere. So they weren't wrong, they were just wrong in Buffalo. 

All of those teams @dudacek mentioned built through the draft (as did others) but where we differ is in hiring inexperienced or inept coaches and GMs. With Ruff we finally have an NHL veteran coach and we will see if that works, but the organization top to bottom has been flawed for over a decade now and if this does not work what then? 

[Thorny]

25 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's not just about picking the "right players" though. We supposedly picked the wrong ones, but one by one they all went on to win cups elsewhere. So they weren't wrong, they were just wrong in Buffalo. 

All of those teams @dudacek mentioned built through the draft (as did others) but where we differ is in hiring inexperienced or inept coaches and GMs. With Ruff we finally have an NHL veteran coach and we will see if that works, but the organization top to bottom has been flawed for over a decade now and if this does not work what then? 

Spend more 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, nfreeman said:

What material?  His tweets?  The one you posted upthread doesn't say this.  Nor does anything he's posted in this thread.

If you've got something in which he says words to the effect of "well, we're lucky just to have a team, so we shouldn't be PO'd about 14 years in the desert" -- let's see it.  Not an absence of "anything to the contrary" -- something that affirmatively says what you claim he says.

Or, even better -- let's just ask him!  @PromoTheRobot -- is this an accurate synopsis of your view?

My point is simply beware of wishing for a new owner. It's not the panacea some believe it is. It could be the start of something bad.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

My point is simply beware of wishing for a new owner. It's not the panacea some believe it is. It could be the start of something bad.

I rest my case 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

 

 

 

If I'm anything, I'm consistant.

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's not just about picking the "right players" though. We supposedly picked the wrong ones, but one by one they all went on to win cups elsewhere. So they weren't wrong, they were just wrong in Buffalo. 

All of those teams @dudacek mentioned built through the draft (as did others) but where we differ is in hiring inexperienced or inept coaches and GMs. With Ruff we finally have an NHL veteran coach and we will see if that works, but the organization top to bottom has been flawed for over a decade now and if this does not work what then? 

In a perfect world we hire the next Bill Zito, who quickly flips Adams mistakes for better players, convinces Pegula to spend wisely and turns things around quickly, the way @Thorny wishes Adams would have.

In the real world, Pegula probably either botches the hire, or gets in his way and we get to repeat these conversations for another 4 years as the new guy muddles his way through, and more and more fantastic fans like @Weave and @Wyldnwoody44 just get too tired or angry to invest themselves any more.

 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, spndnchz said:

I’m gonna make me an Earl Grey and sit back. 

I'm an acknowledged dope. Assuming Early Grey is a drink: What are the ingredients of an Earl Grey? 

[Wyldnwoody44]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm an acknowledged dope. Assuming Early Grey is a drink: What are the ingredients of an Earl Grey? 

It's a tea, black tea with bergamot orange essence. Delicious 

 

On a side note, I just got a slice of Earl grey banana bread and an Earl grey cream puff at this place in NYC called bibble and sip... Delightful! 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's not just about picking the "right players" though. We supposedly picked the wrong ones, but one by one they all went on to win cups elsewhere. So they weren't wrong, they were just wrong in Buffalo. 

All of those teams @dudacek mentioned built through the draft (as did others) but where we differ is in hiring inexperienced or inept coaches and GMs. With Ruff we finally have an NHL veteran coach and we will see if that works, but the organization top to bottom has been flawed for over a decade now and if this does not work what then? 

It wasn't even that those guys were the wrong ones for Buffalo. It's that each of the GM hires wanted to build a team in a way and had a prototypical preferred player that significantly differed from his predecessor. 

Keep them being guided by the same team building principles & then Botterill just has to undo the Winnipeg trade, not the O'Reilly one along with ridding themselves of other useful players too.

The resets were entirely self-inflicted.  They weren't actually necessary in principal.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Spend more 

Well I certainly think you should spend to the cap every year but I doubt that changes anything if they don't improve under Ruff. 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

It wasn't even that those guys were the wrong ones for Buffalo. It's that each of the GM hires wanted to build a team in a way and had a prototypical preferred player that significantly differed from his predecessor. 

Keep them being guided by the same team building principles & then Botterill just has to undo the Winnipeg trade, not the O'Reilly one along with ridding themselves of other useful players too.

The resets were entirely self-inflicted.  They weren't actually necessary in principal.

Your last sentence captures the source of my exasperation with how this franchise has been run during the TP tenure. The churning of staff has resulted in countless resets. It's like walking up a down escalator when it is moving faster than the person on it. The punches that are bruising us are self-inflected. Stating the obvious: bad decisions lead to bad results. Futility magnified by more futility. 

I'm not a despondent pessimist. I don't think that it is out of the realm of possibility (maybe even near probability) if the Sabres can get the caliber of goaltending that UPL provided for half of the season last year and do it for most of the season this year. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

In a perfect world we hire the next Bill Zito, who quickly flips Adams mistakes for better players, convinces Pegula to spend wisely and turns things around quickly, the way @Thorny wishes Adams would have.

In the real world, Pegula probably either botches the hire, or gets in his way and we get to repeat these conversations for another 4 years as the new guy muddles his way through, and more and more fantastic fans like @Weave and @Wyldnwoody44 just get too tired or angry to invest themselves any more.

 

You can add me to that list. I've been on the bubble for a few years and just haven't managed to give up totally yet. Cynical as can be, but still there like a fool. 

Pegula would try to hire "the next" Bill Zito rather than an actual Bill Zito though. He probably thought he did that with Murray and JBott. 

If we miss the playoffs this year I expect Adams will be fired, Ruff's future will be left in the next GM's hands but unfortunately the GM will probably just be someone like Forton. 

[PerreaultForever]

15 minutes ago, Taro T said:

It wasn't even that those guys were the wrong ones for Buffalo. It's that each of the GM hires wanted to build a team in a way and had a prototypical preferred player that significantly differed from his predecessor. 

Keep them being guided by the same team building principles & then Botterill just has to undo the Winnipeg trade, not the O'Reilly one along with ridding themselves of other useful players too.

The resets were entirely self-inflicted.  They weren't actually necessary in principal.

true. The coaching changes brought in different philosophies as well. The rosters have never been deep though. Bottom 6 has often been a mish mash of garbage. We were so thin on D when JBot got here he messed up royally just throwing darts trying to find a D man. Ended up with a pile of meh D men. Lack of continuity has definitely been a thing and still is unless this new roster clicks under Ruff. 

[French Collection]

11 hours ago, JohnC said:

I'm an acknowledged dope. Assuming Early Grey is a drink: What are the ingredients of an Earl Grey? 

Lord Stanley of Preston was Canada’s Governor General who donated the Stanley Cup.

Earl Grey was another Governor General, who donated the Grey Cup.

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Lord Stanley of Preston was Canada’s Governor General who donated the Stanley Cup.

Earl Grey was another Governor General, who donated the Grey Cup.

I appreciate these interesting factoids. You may not have intended it but I feel more stupid for not knowing these particular historical hockey facts. 😀

[PASabreFan]

19 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

All that can be true. It doesn't force Terry to sell. There is no White Knight owner waiting in the wings.

Did you think the same thing when people wanted OSP to sell?

[triumph_communes]

Staying below the cap until the toxic culture is fixed is a very smart thing to do. Whenever we get halfway thru a season with a real team in place we will have the cap space capital to make the moves really necessary to put us over the top. Until then, no 7M dollar player is transforming the culture of the locker room on their own.

I was highly critical of Murray’s lack of attention to any human factors. Botterill came to him recommended by the league you can’t hate on him there. He had some really bad coaches that messed everything up. In theory Krueger was exactly the people focused coach needed to fix that, in reality the guy didn’t work. KA had such a miserable mess to clean up from all those fiascos. And I give him benefit of the doubt the owner doesn’t want to get burned by another coach until he sees failure. And even if I predicted last seasons failure with Granato a year before, it wasn’t until last year did he lose the room. And they cut ties and broke the curse.

 

nothing matters because they broke the curse. With that cap space in hand we will be able to do some big moves and the team culture turnaround will make those actually fruitful for a change.