What's deal with Peyton Krebs?

[Rasmus_]

I truly think they're looking for a move for him, to be honest.  I would expect it to be some sort of reclamation for reclamation match.  

[Weave]

22 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I'm going with he gets bumped down to the AHL and becomes an AHL regular, with occasional callups to account for injuries.  He's the Matt Ellis of this roster.

I can see this.  He’s got more talent than Ellis, but it doesn’t seem to be enough to translate well in the NHL.

He just doesn’t show enough flashes of talent to make me believe he’s got another gear coming.  Not fast enough, determined enough, or shifty enough to overcome his faults.  Seems like a classic tweener talent.

Maybe he can carve out a career like Lazar did.  Im certainly not hoping against it.  But my gut says it won’t be in Buffalo unless he really does have another gear he hasn’t shown yet.

Edited August 26 by Weave

[Drag0nDan]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

I can see this.  He’s got more talent than Ellis, but it doesn’t seem to be enough to translate well in the NHL.

He just doesn’t show enough flashes of talent to make me believe he’s got another gear coming.  Not fast enough, determined enough, or shifty enough to overcome his faults.  Seems like a classic tweener talent.

Maybe he can carve out a career like Lazar did.  Im certainly not hoping against it.  But my gut says it won’t be in Buffalo unless he really does have another gear he hasn’t shown yet.

Pretty much where I'm at...  there shouldn't be much of a priority to keep him, or find him ice time.  He can certainly earn it, but much of what i've seen is the same.  He's played 200 NHL games, so it's not as if there isn't a sample size.  He's not fast or quick, effort is there but he's not particularly effective in a checking role, not particularly effective on draws, doesn't kill penalties, and his shooting and shot selection is pretty terrible.  Mittelstadt wasn't a great shooter, but other elements of his game improved, especially his ability to take the puck away and keep puck possession.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

The best thing about the Krebs situation is that it highlights that no young vet or prospect is guaranteed a roster spot anymore. Krebs, Levi, Johnson, Kulich and Rosen will have to fight a more experienced vet for a job with the Sabres this fall.  Call it prospect blocking if you will, but this is a long overdue development.  Jobs must be earned going forward.  

As outlined above Krebs is competing with everyone in the bottom six for a job.  His best “hope” for this coming season is that someone gets hurt and he runs with the opportunity.  If he doesn’t, Kulich or Rosen could surpass him on the depth chart. I actually expect Kulich to take off this season and force his way onto the Sabres by mid-season.

Levi is in competition with UPL and Reimer.  Camp should be interesting.

By re-sign Joki, Bryson and signing Gilbert, the Sabres put a pile a players between Johnson and the NHL.  Personally, I think Johnson has the potential to be better than any of them, but he of going to have an uphill battle to prove it. 

[LGR4GM]

17 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Probably, but not 100%.

There are first and early 2nd rounders that looked liked busts until they got to 24 or later...

-Lawson Crouse averaged under 10 goals per season, he only hit 20+ after he turned 24.

-Joel Erikson Ek played 4 seasons without hitting 10 goals, after his 24 year old season, he has scored 20-30 every year since

-Sam Bennet was widely considered a bust, averaging just over 10 goals a season until he was 25. At 25, he scored 28.

-Jared McCann never got out of the teens in goals through 24 years of age. Since he turned 25, he has scored 27, 40, and 29.

-Elias Lindholm only reached the teens in goals until he was 24, at 25 he put up 29 goals, and at 27 hit 40.

-Valeri Nikushkin put up 46 total goals over 6 seasons (including a season he played 59 games with ZERO goals) through 25 years old.  In the 3 years since he turned 26 he has 70 goals in 169 games (34 goal per 82 pace)

-Ryan Hartman was another first round pick.  He played in the NHL from age 20-26, never breaking the teens, and most of the time in single digits for goals.  At age 27 he scored 34.

There are other examples.  Now, with all that said, I personally don't think Krebs has 'it'.  He supposedly has great vision/passing, but I remember ONE time all last season he seemed to see the ice well and made a good pass. If they cut him or traded him for a mid round pick now, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.  Its just that...every once in a while, you have guys that look like totals busts and end up 'getting it' past age 24.

Zemgus Girgensons scored 15 goals in his second season. He never scored 15 again and wouldn't even hit 12 again for another 5 years. I can pick exceptions to rules to but here is the real question I have for you. 

Should the Buffalo Sabres spend another 2-3 or more years trying to make Krebs into a whatever goal scorer all while it negatively impacts them on the ice or should they simply see if he manages it this year and then move on? If Krebs turns into a 20g scorer for 2-3 seasons when hes 28, 29, 30... should I give a F? Should I waste my teams seasons to wait and hope? 

Sam Bennett scored 28goals ONCE. He has 1 other 20 goal season to his name. 

Ryan Hartman scored 30+ goals once and has 1 other 20 goal season to his name. 

I highlight those two because these are career years you are citing and that isn't what everyone has every year. Hartman is a 16ish goal scorer and Bennett is a 15g scorer and basically has been every year except for the one you cited. 

[mjd1001]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Zemgus Girgensons scored 15 goals in his second season. He never scored 15 again and wouldn't even hit 12 again for another 5 years. I can pick exceptions to rules to but here is the real question I have for you. 

Should the Buffalo Sabres spend another 2-3 or more years trying to make Krebs into a whatever goal scorer all while it negatively impacts them on the ice or should they simply see if he manages it this year and then move on? If Krebs turns into a 20g scorer for 2-3 seasons when hes 28, 29, 30... should I give a F? Should I waste my teams seasons to wait and hope? 

Sam Bennett scored 28goals ONCE. He has 1 other 20 goal season to his name. 

Ryan Hartman scored 30+ goals once and has 1 other 20 goal season to his name. 

I highlight those two because these are career years you are citing and that isn't what everyone has every year. Hartman is a 16ish goal scorer and Bennett is a 15g scorer and basically has been every year except for the one you cited. 

Again, I am not a huge Krebs fan. On this forum I have probably criticized him, and what he has done in this lineup more than any other player besides Cozens.  I was just pointing out there are times when a player 'turns things around' at a very late age.

Yes, there are some guys that are hits right away. Some take until they are 24 or 25 and then become great players. The two I mentioned, and you re-mentioned, were borderline busts, then had a great scoring year, and since then are still 'better' than they were at Krebs age.  My whole point is there are players that turn into all levels at all different ages.

Should the Sabres keep him around 2-3 more years? I'd personnaly like to start with 1 year...see how it goes. And even then, that is where I will trust the scouting staff and Ruff to make that decision. They know a lot more about young players and hockey in general than I do. 

[freester]

13 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

and then there is 

Curtis Lazar.  Drafted 17th overall in 2013 by Ott after a stellar WHL career (sound familiar).  Had 20 pts at 19 in the NHL and then worked his way to the minors and has been bouncing around the NHL ever since with stops Calg, Buffalo, Boston, Van and NJ.  

Tyson Jost.  Drafted 10th overall by Colorado in 2016.  He peaked with 26 pts at 20 with the Avs and since then has worked his way to 13th work for Minn, Buffalo and now with the Canes.

Lias Andersson.  Drafted 7th by the Rags in 2017.  He has never been able to keep an NHL job and spent the last two years in the AHL.   

Krebs is very close to turning into Lazar or Jost.

Krebs missed a year of development due to Achilles tear and another year due to Covid. Patience is needed. 

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Again, I am not a huge Krebs fan. On this forum I have probably criticized him, and what he has done in this lineup more than any other player besides Cozens.  I was just pointing out there are times when a player 'turns things around' at a very late age.

Yes, there are some guys that are hits right away. Some take until they are 24 or 25 and then become great players. The two I mentioned, and you re-mentioned, were borderline busts, then had a great scoring year, and since then are still 'better' than they were at Krebs age.  My whole point is there are players that turn into all levels at all different ages.

Should the Sabres keep him around 2-3 more years? I'd personnaly like to start with 1 year...see how it goes. And even then, that is where I will trust the scouting staff and Ruff to make that decision. They know a lot more about young players and hockey in general than I do. 

I'll give Krebs this year and then I would like to move him if he hasn't figured it out. I can bring up Kulich and Rosen, and Helenius next year if I need someone to be defensively sound and score 7goals. 

[Archie Lee]

43 minutes ago, freester said:

Krebs missed a year of development due to Achilles tear and another year due to Covid. Patience is needed. 

I won’t speak for you, but my guess is that when you say patience is needed you don’t mean that Krebs should be gifted a middle 6 role and that the team should suffer through his growing pains. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you just mean it is too early to toss him to the curb and that having him start the year as a 13th forward and giving him the opportunity to earn a higher role in the lineup would be a prudent path to take.

Not sure why anyone would disagree with being patient another year. I guess we could bring back a Riley Sheehan level forward for the 13th spot or promote a kid instead of giving him playing time in Rochester. Krebs as 13 with a chance to earn a higher role is the smart move. 

[Night Train]

7 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Where's SDS?

Busy building his shrine to Lindy.. 😁

[dudacek]

I realize this is in “who cares?” file for most of you, but I am really puzzled with what is going on with his contract.

The player has virtually no leverage here: he’s coming off a 4-goal season and on paper has slipped off the starting roster. He can’t afford to miss one second of camp.

Shouldnt he just be taking whatever he’s offered and concentrating on impressing his new coach?

Is this about just waiting until the last minute in the hopes of squeezing out an extra couple hundred grand?

Or is there something else going on?

[sabremike]

53 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I realize this is in “who cares?” file for most of you, but I am really puzzled with what is going on with his contract.

The player has virtually no leverage here: he’s coming off a 4-goal season and on paper has slipped off the starting roster. He can’t afford to miss one second of camp.

Shouldnt he just be taking whatever he’s offered and concentrating on impressing his new coach?

Is this about just waiting until the last minute in the hopes of squeezing out an extra couple hundred grand?

Or is there something else going on?

I almost wonder if he sees there's no clear path for him on the roster and wants a trade to somewhere where there is?

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I realize this is in “who cares?” file for most of you, but I am really puzzled with what is going on with his contract.

The player has virtually no leverage here: he’s coming off a 4-goal season and on paper has slipped off the starting roster. He can’t afford to miss one second of camp.

Shouldnt he just be taking whatever he’s offered and concentrating on impressing his new coach?

Is this about just waiting until the last minute in the hopes of squeezing out an extra couple hundred grand?

Or is there something else going on?

I’m not a conspiracy theorist. If I was, I would say that if Krebs is on the Sabre roster this year then the Sabres will want him at around $1 million. If though, he is traded to a team like Calgary for one of their veteran players, then Calgary might need him at a higher cap hit, say $2 million, in order to stay above the floor. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I realize this is in “who cares?” file for most of you, but I am really puzzled with what is going on with his contract.

The player has virtually no leverage here: he’s coming off a 4-goal season and on paper has slipped off the starting roster. He can’t afford to miss one second of camp.

Shouldnt he just be taking whatever he’s offered and concentrating on impressing his new coach?

Is this about just waiting until the last minute in the hopes of squeezing out an extra couple hundred grand?

Or is there something else going on?

Could very well see the delay on getting a deal worked out for him being based on another deal in the works that has not been finalized yet.  And the team that is looking to get him as part of the package wants to be able to set his contract.  Would expect him to be part of any deal for a 2W (2C?) coming in and that his contract will be signed within a day or 2 of a trade happening.

And if Adams can't work out a deal that Pegula signs off on, then he'll sign right before the team leaves for Europe.

[Porous Five Hole]

The Sabres gave him a qualifying offer, so the fact that Krebs hasn’t signed it indicates he isn’t happy with either the one year term or the minuscule raise it offers.  
 

I imagine he will eventually sign it and be on the ice for day one of camp. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

23 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

The Sabres gave him a qualifying offer, so the fact that Krebs hasn’t signed it indicates he isn’t happy with either the one year term or the minuscule raise it offers.  
 

I imagine he will eventually sign it and be on the ice for day one of camp. 

Does he have the option not to sign it?  QOs are set at 1 year with a set 10% rise - I believe that is set in the CBA (paging @Taro T to whatever thread this is).  Contracts could be negotiated, but I think that a QO is kind of set if a deal is not negotiated prior to (insert some date here).

[Porous Five Hole]

Just now, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Does he have the option not to sign it?  QOs are set at 1 year with a set 10% rise - I believe that is set in the CBA (paging @Taro T to whatever thread this is).  Contracts could be negotiated, but I think that a QO is kind of set if a deal is not negotiated prior to (insert some date here).

While it is true that the team extended a QO to preserve the team’s rights to the player, it doesn’t mean they can’t hammer out a longer term deal.

They gave Malenstyn a QO, but eventually signed him to a two year deal.  
 

I would be stunned if Krebs was arrogant enough to not sign his QO. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, Porous Five Hole said:

While it is true that the team extended a QO to preserve the team’s rights to the player, it doesn’t mean they can’t hammer out a longer term deal.

They gave Malenstyn a QO, but eventually signed him to a two year deal.  
 

I would be stunned if Krebs was arrogant enough to not sign his QO. 

Me too, but my point is that I don't think he has a choice.  He is mandated to sign it by the CBA, as far as I know - @Taro T has not responded to my page yet.

 

[Jorcus]

As recently as last year the Sabres thought Krebs could be a top 2 line forward. I know I heard that on WGR but I can't remember who said it. Was Granato his Champion? Maybe it was and his best hope went out the door with him. Having said that playing as defensive minded 4th liner never hurts a players development, but after Casey was shipped out Krebs did not deliver too much in a modified roll. I think they would rather keep him on the cheap and hope he finally produces some points but he is becoming a non factor.  

[PerreaultForever]

I imagine Adams has tried to trade him. I also suspect he asks too much for him (probably wants a first or a second and he's being offered 3rd or 4ths or a marginal AHL prospect at best) and hence no deal. Krebs probably wants to be paid like a 3C and Adams is probably offering him around league minimum. 

Krebs is being quiet and professional but I wouldn't be surprised if he publicly asks for a trade if he's still unsigned at camp. 

I honestly don't care what happens to him but I think it's clear now that Adams lost the Eichel trade. 

[nfreeman]

19 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I imagine Adams has tried to trade him. I also suspect he asks too much for him (probably wants a first or a second and he's being offered 3rd or 4ths or a marginal AHL prospect at best) and hence no deal. Krebs probably wants to be paid like a 3C and Adams is probably offering him around league minimum. 

Krebs is being quiet and professional but I wouldn't be surprised if he publicly asks for a trade if he's still unsigned at camp. 

I honestly don't care what happens to him but I think it's clear now that Adams lost the Eichel trade. 

I agree with most of this, but I doubt Krebs will publicly ask for a trade -- this is pretty rare in the NHL still.  I could see him asking KA for one though.

Also, I think the Eichel trade matter is kinda tricky.  Given the trade demand by Eichel, his contract, his pre-injury season, in which he looked like a monster, and his injury, getting the better side of that trade was a pretty low-likelihood event.  And it's also unfair to grade it before we've seen Östlund at all and when Krebs has only played 2 full NHL seasons, most of which occurred in a fairly dysfunctional environment.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I imagine Adams has tried to trade him. I also suspect he asks too much for him (probably wants a first or a second and he's being offered 3rd or 4ths or a marginal AHL prospect at best) and hence no deal. Krebs probably wants to be paid like a 3C and Adams is probably offering him around league minimum. 

Krebs is being quiet and professional but I wouldn't be surprised if he publicly asks for a trade if he's still unsigned at camp. 

I honestly don't care what happens to him but I think it's clear now that Adams lost the Eichel trade. 

Agree.

- - - 

Krebs doesn’t have leverage, except for the fact he can point towards our ambundance of unused cap space and make the argument he shouldn’t be “squeezed” 

Ie we can easily afford him. I’m far from a Krebs guy, but imagine listening to phoney baloney KA endlessly tout “want to be here” and then watching a clear overpay to someone like Zucker from outside the org. I’m not saying I agree with him but he can probably see as well as anyone we are an internal cap team not operating like an nhl team that wants to win. Is Krebs behaviour sort of odd? Sure. Unusual behaviour begets unusual behaviour 

Edited September 7 by Thorny

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, Jorcus said:

As recently as last year the Sabres thought Krebs could be a top 2 line forward. I know I heard that on WGR but I can't remember who said it. Was Granato his Champion? Maybe it was and his best hope went out the door with him. Having said that playing as defensive minded 4th liner never hurts a players development, but after Casey was shipped out Krebs did not deliver too much in a modified roll. I think they would rather keep him on the cheap and hope he finally produces some points but he is becoming a non factor.  

I don't see him having much more value now than taking the minimum deal and play "prove it" year to year in order to keep his spot in the NHL.  Look at middle first round draft picks. SOME can still turn into good players, but when their production is as low as Krebs, by this point they get to the point of taking what they can get and proving it (Tyson Jost is a good example).

At this point I'd like to see him sign a 1 year, MAYBE 2 year deal at the minimum.  If he doesn't want that, then flip him for a 6th or 7th rounder.

 

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't see him having much more value now than taking the minimum deal and play "prove it" year to year in order to keep his spot in the NHL.  Look at middle first round draft picks. SOME can still turn into good players, but when their production is as low as Krebs, by this point they get to the point of taking what they can get and proving it (Tyson Jost is a good example).

At this point I'd like to see him sign a 1 year, MAYBE 2 year deal at the minimum.  If he doesn't want that, then flip him for a 6th or 7th rounder.

 

He just had a kid, right? Weren’t people around here putting out the idea Thompson’s season he just played may have suffered for similar, life based reasons? Maybe he doesn’t like the idea of a prove it deal right now 

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I agree with most of this, but I doubt Krebs will publicly ask for a trade -- this is pretty rare in the NHL still.  I could see him asking KA for one though.

Also, I think the Eichel trade matter is kinda tricky.  Given the trade demand by Eichel, his contract, his pre-injury season, in which he looked like a monster, and his injury, getting the better side of that trade was a pretty low-likelihood event.  And it's also unfair to grade it before we've seen Östlund at all and when Krebs has only played 2 full NHL seasons, most of which occurred in a fairly dysfunctional environment.

Well I'm still grading it even assuming Östlund is an NHL player (which is not guaranteed). I don't count any mitigating circumstances. It just is what it is and I do remember people claiming Adams was winning trades (which imo he has not done since Risto). 

idk about Krebs but I could see him trying to force their hand if they don't sign him. I mean wouldn't you?