Amerks 24/25 - Young Talented Roster

[kas23]

37 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

100%. I would be fine if Rosen, Östlund, Johnson, played a role on the team next year. But not if Kulich, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Power, Byram, are. Adams has done such a poor job managing his assets, that the prospects are now blocking the prospects.

I would ship Quinn out. There’s a very good (not excellent) possibility he regains his past production. We’ve seen glimpses of this already. His value is at the highest it’s been post-injury, so would be a good time to sell and actually get the type of player we need. Preferably a defensively-sound one. We have plenty of excellent prospects in our pipeline to replace him, why roll the dice on a questionable one. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

One problem that doesn’t get talked about a ton is what happens to the logjam that’s developing in the pipeline?

In a typical organization, a 21-year-old 1st rounder who put up a point per game in the minors is almost certainly being given a shot to play on the big club next year. Same goes for a 23-year-old 1st-rounder being leaned on as your farm team’s shutdown D.

In a typical organization, they’d be plugged in to replace a Zucker type mid-6 UFA winger and a Jokiharju-type bottom-pair UFA blueliner as capfriendly contracts in sheltered roles where they hopefully develop into real contributors.

That’s just how the NHL typically works in the cap world.

Does anybody actually want Isak Rosen and Ryan Johnson, or players like them on the team next year?

How long before those guys stagnate? How long before they - and guys like Levi and Östlund and others - start to chafe behind them because there are just no opportunities for them on a big club that is already too young?

The Sabres need to flush the system with a few more Savoie/McLeod trades, and find a Reinhart-for-futures type deal they can be on the right side of. That includes moving young NHLers out of the Peterka/Quinn/Benson/Kulich/Byram/Power/ Samuelsson/UPL group.

Time to start behaving like a real NHL team.

Until adams gets fired, none of the will happen. 

[shrader]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

One problem that doesn’t get talked about a ton is what happens to the logjam that’s developing in the pipeline?

In a typical organization, a 21-year-old 1st rounder who put up a point per game in the minors is almost certainly being given a shot to play on the big club next year. Same goes for a 23-year-old 1st-rounder being leaned on as your farm team’s shutdown D.

In a typical organization, they’d be plugged in to replace a Zucker type mid-6 UFA winger and a Jokiharju-type bottom-pair UFA blueliner as capfriendly contracts in sheltered roles where they hopefully develop into real contributors.

That’s just how the NHL typically works in the cap world.

Does anybody actually want Isak Rosen and Ryan Johnson, or players like them on the team next year?

How long before those guys stagnate? How long before they - and guys like Levi and Östlund and others - start to chafe behind them because there are just no opportunities for them on a big club that is already too young?

The Sabres need to flush the system with a few more Savoie/McLeod trades, and find a Reinhart-for-futures type deal they can be on the right side of. That includes moving young NHLers out of the Peterka/Quinn/Benson/Kulich/Byram/Power/ Samuelsson/UPL group.

Time to start behaving like a real NHL team.

They’re in the same exact spot as a couple of years ago with the strong finish leaving them one point short of they needed to do exactly what you’re saying now. There’s something here, but they can’t just keep rolling with the next young guy in line. 

[Flashsabre]

Östlund, Rosen, Wahlberg, Helenuis, Novikov, Komarov,R. Johnson and Levi.

That is 8 AHL players that have NHL futures in my mind over the next couple years and Kozak and Kulich are up already. Neuchev and Poltapov could get there.

Benson is still a teenager. 
 

Something will have to give soon. We need a GM that has a vision and can execute it. There are plenty of assets in the system to get the pieces needed to take the next step.

[tom webster]

4 hours ago, shrader said:

They’re in the same exact spot as a couple of years ago with the strong finish leaving them one point short of they needed to do exactly what you’re saying now. There’s something here, but they can’t just keep rolling with the next young guy in line. 

I know I’m opening up myself for a beat down, but if you accept the premise that Kevyn Adams is a smart guy who was doing a pretty good job on the business side before being put in a position he wasn’t ready for, then you accept that he is someone who learns from his mistakes and has grown into his job. No other organization would have allowed him this much rope but I think there are signs, starting with the McLeod trade, that he might be ready to make the necessary changes. Time, of course, will be the only thing that can save me from the vitriol I am about to receive.

[Porous Five Hole]

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

I know I’m opening up myself for a beat down, but if you accept the premise that Kevyn Adams is a smart guy who was doing a pretty good job on the business side before being put in a position he wasn’t ready for, then you accept that he is someone who learns from his mistakes and has grown into his job. No other organization would have allowed him this much rope but I think there are signs, starting with the McLeod trade, that he might be ready to make the necessary changes. Time, of course, will be the only thing that can save me from the vitriol I am about to receive.

Agree that you can hopefully learn from mistakes, but KA has made too many of them.
 

He preached a culture of wanting to be here and it didn’t translate into winning.
 

He iced the youngest team in the league after saying “win mode now.”  

He did not address the crease properly two years ago by rolling with Levi like he was ready, and then extended UPL for too long based on 40 games.

He did not do a competent head coaching search and the guy he brought in was screaming he needs a culture change in the last Sabres embedded.

There was some good in there as well as more bad, but for me…Palm trees and taxes was the final straw.  I would have fired him that night.  

[shrader]

14 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I know I’m opening up myself for a beat down, but if you accept the premise that Kevyn Adams is a smart guy who was doing a pretty good job on the business side before being put in a position he wasn’t ready for, then you accept that he is someone who learns from his mistakes and has grown into his job. No other organization would have allowed him this much rope but I think there are signs, starting with the McLeod trade, that he might be ready to make the necessary changes. Time, of course, will be the only thing that can save me from the vitriol I am about to receive.

However long that leash might be, they risk extinction by letting it go any further. I know that’s a bit too strong of a word, but I can’t think of the right one. 

[tom webster]

21 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Agree that you can hopefully learn from mistakes, but KA has made too many of them.
 

He preached a culture of wanting to be here and it didn’t translate into winning.
 

He iced the youngest team in the league after saying “win mode now.”  

He did not address the crease properly two years ago by rolling with Levi like he was ready, and then extended UPL for too long based on 40 games.

He did not do a competent head coaching search and the guy he brought in was screaming he needs a culture change in the last Sabres embedded.

There was some good in there as well as more bad, but for me…Palm trees and taxes was the final straw.  I would have fired him that night.  

I agree with all of this except I have no issues with the hiring of Ruff. Coaching interviews in the NHL are largely overrated, at least in my opinion.

14 minutes ago, shrader said:

However long that leash might be, they risk extinction by letting it go any further. I know that’s a bit too strong of a word, but I can’t think of the right one. 

I think it is clear that, if, and it’s still not guaranteed, but if he gets another year, it would be his last chance.

[Porous Five Hole]

23 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I agree with all of this except I have no issues with the hiring of Ruff. Coaching interviews in the NHL are largely overrated, at least in my opinion.

That’s fair, I’ll take the search out of it.
 

I didn’t hate the Ruff hire when it happened. I didn’t really know what to think.   But it hasn’t worked and KA has to own it. 

[Thorner]

5 hours ago, shrader said:

They’re in the same exact spot as a couple of years ago with the strong finish leaving them one point short of they needed to do exactly what you’re saying now. There’s something here, but they can’t just keep rolling with the next young guy in line. 

Is the 79 points we are currently pacing for fairly classified as the “exact” same spot as 91? 

Our GM is allowed to go backwards now, no harm, no foul.
 

Addition by subtraction: we are actually better after taking away the 12 standings points 

[pi2000]

5 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Östlund, Rosen, Wahlberg, Helenuis, Novikov, Komarov,R. Johnson and Levi.

That is 8 AHL players that have NHL futures in my mind over the next couple years and Kozak and Kulich are up already. Neuchev and Poltapov could get there.

Benson is still a teenager. 
 

Something will have to give soon. We need a GM that has a vision and can execute it. There are plenty of assets in the system to get the pieces needed to take the next step.

They need to do some serious self scouting.   Decide what type of team they want to be, project players into roles and move the others. 

Does anybody trust this regime to get it right?  I certainly don't.

I'd feel better about it if they had a trustworthy POHO with a clear vision instead of Terry pulling the strings.

[shrader]

13 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Is the 79 points we are currently pacing for fairly classified as the “exact” same spot as 91? 

Our GM is allowed to go backwards now, no harm, no foul.
 

Addition by subtraction: we are actually better after taking away the 12 standings points 

Ok, Larry Literal. I think the rest of the post spells it out pretty clearly. Constantly calling up the next kid in line, forever being the youngest team in the league… they needed to move from that models years ago and they still need to do it now.