Sabres Embedded: 2024 Draft and UFA Ed.

[RochesterExpat]

46 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Almost fully agree with this except a couple notable exceptions such as Leinonen and Rosen

Rosen was a stretch pick that still doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

As for Leinonen, he was a stretch pick too, but, situationally, it was a little different. Buffalo drafted based on position and not BPA in that case. It was clear they wanted to draft a goalie given the net situation in Buffalo. Leinonen was the #1 or #2 goalie in the draft depending on which public list you looked at, and he was the consensus #1 goalie on draft night during the broadcast (Brennan being the #2). Neither goalie do I see making a serious impact in the NHL at any point. Buffalo must have projected him to go somewhere in the 2nd round before they made their 3rd round pick. I don't agree with that at all, but we'll never know. Depending on the public draft board, it's not an unreasonable take.

Seattle shocked everyone by drafting Kokko after Buffalo drafted Leinonen. Kokko wasn't even on some of the top 25 lists for goalies. At no point did the Athletic even profile him. Meanwhile, Milic went undrafted to the surprise of many. Funny enough, Kokko is looking like he might have what it takes.

Brennan was the third goalie picked and he went early in the 4th round. A total of 20 goalies were drafted across the 7 rounds. Of those, apart from the aforementioned Kokko, Ivanov (CBJ, Rnd 5 #138) and Whitehead (VGK, Rnd 4, #128) are the most promising of unsigned goalies. Murashov (PIT, Rnd 4, #118) will play in the AHL starting this season and Hildeby (TOR, Rnd 4, #122) played very well last season for the Marlies.

The values in goalie were part of the goalie "run" that was kicked off by Brennan's selection. Leinonen was a reach at pick #42. He was projected to go in the 3rd on public lists. I'm guessing Buffalo thought he was going to go before #74. At least, that's what I hope. It was a terrible pick nonetheless. You don't reach up a round+ for a position pick. You move your picks around. Someone in the Org made a mistake on this one.

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, #freejame said:

It needs to always matter

Definitely.

But this is about making it a public talking point.

When you are a “91-point and rising team” that puts up 84, people talk about accountability.

When you’re a 78-point team that puts up 62, people just talk about how bad you are.

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, phil_soisson said:

What really stood out to me was the "open mic" style committee of assertion, or affirmation. That said, there wasn't any dissent in evidence. Two possibilities: finding broad consensus among truly "think for yourself" individuals, or, a "get with the program" window-dressing (either conscious or sub conscious) of yes men going along.

What possible benefit do the Sabres get by showing what the scouts that DIDN'T want to draft a particular player were saying about him?  Do they really want a kid that is now in their organization to know that so & so doesn't believe he skates well enough or has a hard enough shot or whatever the case may be?

Would be SHOCKED if they put the dissent in the public view for all the world to see.  (And that would be the case for any team putting together a video like this.)

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Almost fully agree with this except a couple notable exceptions such as Leinonen and Rosen.  On the amateur side they almost always go for value such as Kulich, JJP, Benson, Zeimer, Leenders etc…but those 2 picks stand out the other way.

Back to accountability for a second.  The lack of accountability for the players has been a cultural issue for years.  It seems to me that long-term deals after one good season, the lack of competition for jobs and Adams refusal to “block” prospects have all contributed to player complacency and in turn a lack of success on the ice.  After all winning doesn’t matter if you are guaranteed your job and that job comes with a lifetime of wealth.  

 It still annoys me the Adams even offered Girgensons a new deal.  As much as I like Z the person, he is kind of a symbol of the problems of this franchise.  

You LIKE Girgensons?  Mildly surprised at that, as you've been harping on getting the Sabres to dump him for years.

58 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I generally don’t have an issue with need being part of a draft board, but reaching for a player a few rounds early simply because he plays a certain position makes little sense, especially a goaltender in a weak goaltender draft.   Not surprisingly, they drafted goalies in the next 2 drafts and both are probably better prospects than Leinonen.  What makes the pick even more shocking, was the very next pick was a huge value pick in Neuchev.  

Didn't hate them reaching on a goalie that year as much as some others hated it.  The goalie prospect cupboard was pretty bare at the time especially considering there was a real risk that Portillo would walk.  They have (and at the time had) a LOT of F prospects in the system and, as the Savoie trade demonstrated, they don't/won't have room for all of them.  (Mentioned F depth, because it seemed most here wanted an F taken with that pick.)

Yes, it was a weak draft, but by choosing the 1st goalie taken off the board, they absolutely got the guy they wanted when the cupboard was bare.  (Now, whether they picked the right goalie still seems to be in doubt.  But there is no doubt they got the goalie they had rated #1 in that class.)  Had they made a similar move this year with as many young goalies in/at the NHL level and in the system; would've hated the move as much as everyone else hates it.

[phil_soisson]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

What possible benefit do the Sabres get by showing what the scouts that DIDN'T want to draft a particular player were saying about him?  Do they really want a kid that is now in their organization to know that so & so doesn't believe he skates well enough or has a hard enough shot or whatever the case may be?

Would be SHOCKED if they put the dissent in the public view for all the world to see.  (And that would be the case for any team putting together a video like this.)

Then again, if it was public knowledge that there were those in the organization who were against acquiring a specific player out of concerns said player was lacking, you might find that rare blossom of personal character who, rather than caving to butt hurt and resentment, steels himself through hard work, grit, and determination so as to prove his detractors wrong. After all, it is a men's professional league, and that may be the more precise recipe for finding out who "likes to bump people", and is hard to play against.

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, phil_soisson said:

Then again, if it was public knowledge that there were those in the organization who were against acquiring a specific player out of concerns said player was lacking, you might find that rare blossom of personal character who, rather than caving to butt hurt and resentment, steels himself through hard work, grit, and determination so as to prove his detractors wrong. After all, it is a men's professional league, and that may be the more precise recipe for finding out who "likes to bump people", and is hard to play against.

Seriously?

How well steeled are you going to get if your boss is PUBLICLY saying "well yeah, Phil is pretty good at this, but he really needs to be better at X, Y, and Z or his simply isn't going to cut it and we're going to punt his arse if he doesn't pick them up."

[That Aud Smell]

4 hours ago, JustOneParade said:

Ziemer? That boy is ready to lace them up and get to work. I think we're really going to like this kid.

I just watched the first little bit. The kid reminds me of some dude who starred in a bunch of movies (not recent ones, since I don't see many of those). But I cannot think of who that is. Possibly someone as far back as The Outsiders?

I mean, you hope and pray that Ziemer can elevate his game to an NHL level. Because that kid appears to be a dog.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

You LIKE Girgensons?  Mildly surprised at that, as you've been harping on getting the Sabres to dump him for years.

Why?  I like the person, just don’t think we should be paying 2.5 for a player we can replace for the vet minimum.  I don’t think he makes the Sabres better on the ice and hasn’t for the last few years.
 

 

[phil_soisson]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Seriously?

How well steeled are you going to get if your boss is PUBLICLY saying "well yeah, Phil is pretty good at this, but he really needs to be better at X, Y, and Z or his simply isn't going to cut it and we're going to punt his arse if he doesn't pick them up."

Yes, seriously! You sound like a drama queen. Early in his career with the lacklustre NY Rangers, regularly facing 40 to 50 shots a night, Gump Worsley was asked: "Which team gives you the most trouble?" His reply: "The New York Rangers." Accused by Rangers' coach Phil Watson of having a beer belly, he replied, "Just goes to show you what he knows. I only drink Johnnie WalkerRed." Apparently, you missed those days; when men were men.

Edited July 31 by phil_soisson

[Taro T]

22 minutes ago, phil_soisson said:

Yes, seriously! You sound like a drama queen. Early in his career with the lacklustre NY Rangers, regularly facing 40 to 50 shots a night, Gump Worsley was asked: "Which team gives you the most trouble?" His reply: "The New York Rangers." Accused by Rangers' coach Phil Watson of having a beer belly, he replied, "Just goes to show you what he knows. I only drink Johnnie WalkerRed." Apparently, you missed those days; when men were men.

Interesting reply.  And kind of ironic; such a childish response coming from somebody pining for the '60's.

[7+6=13]

KA: "Hey just to let you know we made the trade for Malenstyn."

TP: "ok"

I think we can put to rest Terry is making hockey decisions and dictating.

[French Collection]

7 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

KA: "Hey just to let you know we made the trade for Malenstyn."

TP: "ok"

I think we can put to rest Terry is making hockey decisions and dictating.

KA: Terry, we got this trade worked out with the Jets for Ehlers. However, the deal will put us up against the cap.

TP: No

[Brawndo]

On 7/30/2024 at 10:27 PM, LGR4GM said:

It's not clear to me if that was the trade straight up.  Almost sounded like part of something slightly larger but maybe not. Glad that trade didn't happen though.

 

On 7/31/2024 at 2:34 AM, Huckleberry said:

I think it was 43rd and Malenstyn seperated in the end , but there was a bigger trade with the caps going on and the malenstyn trade is what was left.

I double checked the Sabres proposed trade was 17th and Malenstyn for 14th overall. Pick 43 was worth more to the Capitals so that was the deal that was made 

[PotentPowerPlay21]

Kevyn Adams said all the right things with Terry Pegula sitting right next to him. Jeez, you'll say anything with the boss right there. He said he wanted a team that was tougher to play against. Why didn't he do anything about it last year? It took Kevyn Adams a long time to figure out he assembled one of the softest teams in the NHL. I do like some of the additions, but he paid a very high price for a couple of the pieces. Savoie trade might come back to haunt him.

[gilbert11]

Many trolls on here like to be critical of the GM.  I believe this video showed he knows what he’s doing and is in charge.  I also like Jerry Forton.

Watching this gave me excitement for next season.  I hope we’re not disappointed again.

[LGR4GM]

51 minutes ago, gilbert11 said:

Many trolls on here like to be critical of the GM.  I believe this video showed he knows what he’s doing and is in charge.  I also like Jerry Forton.

Watching this gave me excitement for next season.  I hope we’re not disappointed again.

Being critical of a GM who's failings are self evident doesn't make anyone a troll, ftr. Whether or not that's your point with the opening sentence, I just wanted add that in. We should be critical of a guy who for 4 years couldn't get this team to the playoffs. 

[...]

3 hours ago, gilbert11 said:

Many trolls on here like to be critical of the GM.  I believe this video showed he knows what he’s doing and is in charge.  I also like Jerry Forton.

Watching this gave me excitement for next season.  I hope we’re not disappointed again.

This post is understated genius.

[SwampD]

On 8/1/2024 at 2:02 PM, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

Kevyn Adams said all the right things with Terry Pegula sitting right next to him. Jeez, you'll say anything with the boss right there. He said he wanted a team that was tougher to play against. Why didn't he do anything about it last year? It took Kevyn Adams a long time to figure out he assembled one of the softest teams in the NHL. I do like some of the additions, but he paid a very high price for a couple of the pieces. Savoie trade might come back to haunt him.

I’m not worried about the Savioe trade.

Terry right next to Adams the whole video was weird,… maybe even a little unsettling. I bet that video (and maybe the team) would look and feel much different if TP wasn’t always hovering over KA.

[Derrico]

Watching the video confirms what I already thought and see every draft, prospect challenge and major events like trade deadline.  Terry is always around and cares about the Sabres.  Frustrating that he interferes so much with the operation of the team.  But I’ve read some say he doesn’t care about the Sabres and that’s simply not true. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

Every time I see TP in these videos, he either looks like he's dreaming of being somehwere else, tripping on Shrooms, or just waking/about to go into a heavy senior nap. 

[kas23]

I finally got around to watch this. I know they are presenting things as nice little tied up stories and don’t show the negatives, but it’s hard not to get excited after watching this. Mission accomplished on their part. 

[#freejame]

4 hours ago, kas23 said:

I finally got around to watch this. I know they are presenting things as nice little tied up stories and don’t show the negatives, but it’s hard not to get excited after watching this. Mission accomplished on their part. 

Like everything the Sabres put out, I go into them with a heavily skeptical bias. I know that this video would be largely the same regardless of who we picked, but hearing the acknowledgement of things that people around here have been banging on about for years gives me hope that they finally get it. I want to be good again so ***** bad. 

[Cascade Youth]

On 7/30/2024 at 10:56 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

I've raised this issue before, but why has it taken so long for this organization to talk about and demand accountability?

Accountability usually requires well-defined metrics of success - the obvious one being winning percentage.  The Sabres have not prioritized winning the past few seasons so it shouldn’t be a surprise that they haven’t emphasized accountability, either.

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

Accountability usually requires well-defined metrics of success - the obvious one being winning percentage.  The Sabres have not prioritized winning the past few seasons so it shouldn’t be a surprise that they haven’t emphasized accountability, either.

Accountability has zero to do with winning %.  A good winning % should be the result of an accountable organization.

Accountability is getting moved to a lower line or benched when you don't backcheck or make careless plays.  Accountability is firing a coach who doesn't fix the PP.  Accountability is removing players form the PP when they keep making the same mistakes over and over again.  Hopefully when you hold players and coaches (and GM's) accountable, that leads to building a winning culture and that ultimately leads to a good winning %. 

The Sabres' owners, players, coaches and GMs have had 13 years to create accountability in the organization, but it's never happened.  Our players were not asked to make the effort to win jobs in the NHL.  Most of the young Sabres were basically given the jobs they have and management simply hoped they would grow into the role they were handed.  Once they have a good year that get a long term deal.  The Sabres players and GM are a complacent bunch that haven't proven they even know what accountability even means.  

 

Edited August 5 by GASabresIUFAN