Weave Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said: What has he done? Great question. I also said hands the reigns to Levi in 2-3 years. Levi is a 2 time NCAA Richter award winner. He is the 1st to win it twice and the first to win it in consecutive years. Swayman, Primeau, Demko and Hellebuyck are other winners. In his first year in the minors he recorded a .927 save% (26 games). UPL’s best minor league season was his 3rd season and it was a .900 in his first season in the NHL (23 games last season as well) he recorded a .899 save% compared to UPL’s .892. Levi has the better developmental pedigree over UPL. That doesn’t mean he is better today, but he may be the better player by the end of this coming season. Levi’s pedigree is closer to Saros and Demko, while UPL’s is closer to Husso and Petersen. Which of our goalies would you have more faith in? Who are the Richter award winners between those players, and how did they fare? Levi is still not a sure thing. UPL is alot “closer”. We needed (and still need, until proven otherwise) goalie security. This contract is not nearly the risk or burden you portray it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJoe Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 4 hours ago, dudacek said: Haven’t quite figured puckpedia’s interface yet, but as best as I can figure UPL will be the 17th-highest paid goalie in the league this year. Interesting contracts over the past few years given to players in comparable situations include: Demko 5x$5M Saros 4x$5M Petersen 3x$5M Husso 3x$4.75 Couple home run for teams on the 1st 2, Husso looks like a bad deal and Petersen was horrible bust no clue why Saros signed for so little?? I know he loves TN but he signed for around 70% of his worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 41 minutes ago, Weave said: Who are the Richter award winners between those players, and how did they fare? Levi is still not a sure thing. UPL is alot “closer”. We needed (and still need, until proven otherwise) goalie security. This contract is not nearly the risk or burden you portray it. I'm not down on Levi. At this point though, I think Luukkonen's chances of being an elite goaltender are greater. The NHL recently listed their top 25 projected fantasy goalies for 2024-25. Not a meaningful list; Luukkonen is 17th and Levi isn't in the top 25. But it is a who's who of starting NHL goalies. On the list there is one goalie shorter than Levi and 24 taller. 22 are at least 2 inches taller. 17 at least 3 inches taller. It doesn't mean that Levi won't be great or that Luukkonen will be. I do think Luukkonen is a better bet though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said: What has he done? Great question. I also said hands the reigns to Levi in 2-3 years. Levi is a 2 time NCAA Richter award winner. He is the 1st to win it twice and the first to win it in consecutive years. Swayman, Primeau, Demko and Hellebuyck are other winners. In his first year in the minors he recorded a .927 save% (26 games). UPL’s best minor league season was his 3rd season and it was a .900 in his first season in the NHL (23 games last season as well) he recorded a .899 save% compared to UPL’s .892. Levi has the better developmental pedigree over UPL. That doesn’t mean he is better today, but he may be the better player by the end of this coming season. Levi’s pedigree is closer to Saros and Demko, while UPL’s is closer to Husso and Petersen. Which of our goalies would you have more faith in? Good pedigree for sure, and he may someday be better, but I don't care about pedigree right now. Pedigree means something on draft day, or if you are looking to trade, but we are now past that. Now you earn your keep at the NHL level. If your rating pedigree, don't forget that UPL was a 2nd rounder and Levi fell to round 7, so maybe not all the scouts felt the same way about him as you do? As I recall, according to many "experts" Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold all had better pedigree than Josh Allen. Late bloomers sometimes catch up, especially goalies. Last season UPL matched Husso's best season ever, and Husso was on a very stout Blues team at the time while UPL played on a below average team. If you think UPL compares to Cal Petersen then no wonder your worried. I just don't like the thought process that Levi is automatically going to be the #1 goalie because he is better in the AHL, or has better pedigree. Right now, based on last season, UPL is the #1. Levi is 2 or 3. UPL is big, he moves well, and is proto-typical of todays NHL goalies, he is at the perfect age to emerge, and the players seem to rise up and play for him. If Levi is better than UPL at the end of this season, and maybe that happens, then we have a good problem in Sabreland. If Levi emerges in the next 2-3 years, as long as UPL is still solid he is easily tradable at $4.75M. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, Weave said: Who are the Richter award winners between those players, and how did they fare? Levi is still not a sure thing. UPL is alot “closer”. We needed (and still need, until proven otherwise) goalie security. This contract is not nearly the risk or burden you portray it. Just for the record, that award has only been around for 11 season, so there isn’t exactly an exhausting list of booms and busts. Edited July 25 by shrader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresparaavida Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, CTJoe said: no clue why Saros signed for so little?? I know he loves TN but he signed for around 70% of his worth At the time of his season, he was only really proven as a good tandem goalie. His career high in games was 40, and his second highest game total was 31. He hadn’t proved that he could perform well while undertaking a starter’s workload yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruff Around The Edges Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, CTJoe said: no clue why Saros signed for so little?? I know he loves TN but he signed for around 70% of his worth One word: Taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Peabody Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 (edited) I apologize it’s been mentioned but a very positive note on this contract is KA didn’t worry about blocking Levy. Let the best man win. Edited July 25 by Mr Peabody 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, shrader said: Just for the record, that award has only been around for 11 season, so there isn’t exactly an exhausting list of books and busts. My insta feed is also an exhausting list of busts 53 minutes ago, Mr Peabody said: I apologize it’s been mentioned but a very positive note on this contract is KA didn’t worry about blocking Levy. Let the best man win. Clearly I’d take Marv over Eugene but I’m slightly Buffalo biased 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Peabody Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 22 minutes ago, inkman said: My insta feed is also an exhausting list of busts Clearly I’d take Marv over Eugene but I’m slightly Buffalo biased I was going to edit and correct but your response was too funny not to let go as is! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Buff Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 i like the deal & term. There is no guarantee whatsover that Levi will be a #1 NHL goalie, yet alone beating UPL on our depth chart. I was most afraid KA would put all his eggs in the Levi basket, without any alternative plan. This rewards a player who was probably our MVP last season. He kept us in games we had no reason being in. And with Ruff installing a better structure where we play team defense, Ukko wont be all out on his own facing odd man rushes like he has so often. Give me UPL in Ruff's system & i like our chances. Sure we can quibble about an extra year or whatever but the biggest thing is that we didnt lose him without a plan to replace him & Levi doesnt get put into the role before he's earned it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerDave Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 20 hours ago, Taro T said: He has stated that in interviews that it's important for him to know the team believes in him. Maybe that was just a function of his youth and he'll grow out of needing that validation. Sometimes it is easier to play when the pressure is not so strong. When you think every mistake you make could cost you your job, some people tighten up and choke. Having a longer-term contract takes the pressure off him and he can relax and play like he knows he can, shaking off the occasional blunder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPuckYourself Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 10 hours ago, Pimlach said: He has already proven to be better than the younger and less experienced UPL that we saw prior to last season. He will return as the #1, with the same goalie coach (Bales) as last season, and with Lindy as head coach and who has publicly stated his confidence in him. I feel pretty good about it. I hope Reimer can handle the #2 so that Levi gets lots of games in the AHL. I'm not so confident, a half a season of top notch play in a contract year always has me a bit leary but I'm hopeful. I'm pretty sure Kevyn Adams has already stated that Levi will be in the NHL this season in an interview. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dryballs Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 4 hours ago, RangerDave said: Sometimes it is easier to play when the pressure is not so strong. When you think every mistake you make could cost you your job, some people tighten up and choke. Having a longer-term contract takes the pressure off him and he can relax and play like he knows he can, shaking off the occasional blunder. Good point and I'm glad he flourished last year. He's on "easy street" now so he should be comfortable .... I can't help but think he needs Levi up and challenging him. This could be the best of both worlds. ...... We are so fuking due! .... Sorry but I'm not getting younger and that's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 I feel a little better about UPL after Philly paid Konecny 8.75 per year for 8 years. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I feel a little better about UPL after Philly paid Konecny 8.75 per year for 8 years. Makes me feel better about Cozens contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 20 hours ago, dudacek said: Of course you do, you're a Sabres fan. History makes it difficult to trust the good things you see, not just with UPL, but with the franchise in general. This board probably didn't really give UPL's season last year the attention it deserved as it happened because of context, but it was the best season we'd seen by a goalie since prime Ryan Miller. He was really good, like legit top starter good. Just like Tage Thompson was freaking amazing the year before —best season by a Sabres forward since 16 and 89 were tearing it up — and we didn't go all-in on that either. We're (and I'm very much counting myself in this) conditioned to expect good things to disappear. So,… at least for now, we were right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISabresFan Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 Based on his stats for one year, he got paid like a top 25 goalie in the nhl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, MISabresFan said: Based on his stats for one year, he got paid like a top 25 goalie in the nhl. There are exactly 64 NHL goalie jobs. (Well maybe 66 to cover for a team or 2 having a "3 headed monster.") He's a starter. Will he be for all 5 years? No data. But being top 25 (and believe someone said he's actually 17th highest paid) only puts him ahead of 7 starters (and if he's 17th, he's only ahead of 15 starters). The cap keeps going up and by the time they have to be making a serious decision on Levi's pay (a couple of years from now as he's ~4 years away from UFA status) UPL quite likely won't even be in the top 32 of goalie's pay. The man's an amplifier and this is his Sally Fields moment - you like me, you really like me. There's a very good chance this deal works out, and even if it doesn't, there will be methods available to get out from under the deal. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I feel a little better about UPL after Philly paid Konecny 8.75 per year for 8 years. I don't get overly concerned with the AAP as I am with the length of the term. If you look at the goalie position it becomes apparent that there is a lot of player movement even for players who have big contracts. My point here is that you are never stuck with a player that doesn't work out or your roster situation changes. One way or the other you can move a player with an onerous contract when the situation calls for it. Skinner is an example of it. There was a buyout. Sometimes an organization has to retain some salary when moving a player or accept a player in a trade in order to balance out the contracts. Those are a few options the organization has when the situation calls for a roster adjustment. There is never going to be a perfect match between a player's contract and production. Sometimes you are going to get a player outperforming his contract that will be balanced out with players underperforming their contracts. In the end, the real issue is the makeup of the roster and their overall performance. In general, the GM has done a decent job in handling the contract side of his responsibilities. KA is more inclined to give a young and upcoming player an extended contract sooner rather than later. In my view, he's done it in a responsible way where it is a reasonable gamble. My recommendation to you is not to get so hung up with the contracting side of the business and instead focus more on the talent and fit side of the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noacls Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 Another horrible contract for Adams 1 1 2 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 16 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said: I'm not so confident, a half a season of top notch play in a contract year always has me a bit leary but I'm hopeful. I'm pretty sure Kevyn Adams has already stated that Levi will be in the NHL this season in an interview. Certainly can agree that nothing is guaranteed at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 3 minutes ago, Pimlach said: Certainly can agree that nothing is guaranteed at this point. As you point out, there are no guarantees how players are going to perform. If, hypothetically, Levi outshines UPL, that is not a problem. Internal competition makes players better, not worse. That's exactly what you want. A number of people are making the "what if" argument about another player beating out a more richly signed player. That's not something to stew over; it's something to celebrate. The better player earning more playing time than the less productive player. Benson was the surprise player in last year's camp. He earned his spot and based on his play showed that keeping him on the NHL roster was the right decision. If Kulich or any other prospect demonstrates in camp and in the exhibition games that he is better than another competing player, then that's a situation that should be celebrated. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 This is a win - win contract. Both sides should be very happy. The last time the Sabres felt this confident in a goalie was when Miller signed his 5 year extension something like 20 years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 28 Report Share Posted July 28 13 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: This is a win - win contract. Both sides should be very happy. The last time the Sabres felt this confident in a goalie was when Miller signed his 5 year extension something like 20 years ago. Just curious. How long was Miller "good" when he got that deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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