On the topic of our need for a top-6 upgrade

[Archie Lee]

At present, I would say that four of the top-6 forward positions are filled by Thompson, Tuch, Cozens and Peterka. The remaining two wings will likely be filled by two of Quinn, Benson and Zucker. For the most part, fans seem to see Quinn as nearly a lock for one of the remaining spots, leaving Zucker or Benson for the last spot depending on preference for talent or experience. Long-shots would be Greenway, if Ruff opts to balance lines with a defensive presence, and Kulich, if he has a great camp.

Regardless of the above, if we were to acquire a legit top-6 forward, it pushes at least one of Quinn or Benson to line 3 (along with Zucker).

The question then is, if we really could use a top-6 upgrade, and that upgrade would mean that either Quinn or Benson (along with Zucker) would move to line 3, and considering the improved bottom 6 depth, and considering that we have a boatload of forward prospects (one or two of whom might be ready for at least a middle-six role as soon as this season), then should we trade Quinn or Benson for the top-6 upgrade?

   

[GoPuckYourself]

That’s a fair question but why would Benson be bumped down? Make him force someone out of the lineup instead of giving him a top 6 role. He’s 19, a few more years before a deal needs to be made so no need to force feed this.

Quinn also would not be bumped if a top 6 came along.

New player- Thompson-Peterka

Quinn-Cozens-Tuch

Benson-McLeod-Zucker 

If anything it makes the 3rd line even better for Benson giving him a veteran like Zucker and McLeod would be ideal imo.

[Archie Lee]

11 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

That’s a fair question but why would Benson be bumped down? Make him force someone out of the lineup instead of giving him a top 6 role. He’s 19, a few more years before a deal needs to be made so no need to force feed this.

Quinn also would not be bumped if a top 6 came along.

New player- Thompson-Peterka

Quinn-Cozens-Tuch

Benson-McLeod-Zucker 

If anything it makes the 3rd line even better for Benson giving him a veteran like Zucker and McLeod would be ideal imo.

You're right.  If we traded something else for a top-6 winger, Quinn or Benson would just be bumped to line 3.  But what if the barrier to a top-6 upgrade is that the team we are dealing with wants Benson or Quinn.  So the cost of Ehlers, Konecny or Boeser is Benson.  Should we do that? Would you do that?

My answer is a qualified yes.  I would trade Benson for any of those players, if we were able to get them extended first.

[GoPuckYourself]

14 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

You're right.  If we traded something else for a top-6 winger, Quinn or Benson would just be bumped to line 3.  But what if the barrier to a top-6 upgrade is that the team we are dealing with wants Benson or Quinn.  So the cost of Ehlers, Konecny or Boeser is Benson.  Should we do that? Would you do that?

My answer is a qualified yes.  I would trade Benson for any of those players, if we were able to get them extended first.

I think that would defeat the purpose for me but if I had to choose I’d get rid of Quinn due to the injury history.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

At present, I would say that four of the top-6 forward positions are filled by Thompson, Tuch, Cozens and Peterka. The remaining two wings will likely be filled by two of Quinn, Benson and Zucker. For the most part, fans seem to see Quinn as nearly a lock for one of the remaining spots, leaving Zucker or Benson for the last spot depending on preference for talent or experience. Long-shots would be Greenway, if Ruff opts to balance lines with a defensive presence, and Kulich, if he has a great camp.

Regardless of the above, if we were to acquire a legit top-6 forward, it pushes at least one of Quinn or Benson to line 3 (along with Zucker).

The question then is, if we really could use a top-6 upgrade, and that upgrade would mean that either Quinn or Benson (along with Zucker) would move to line 3, and considering the improved bottom 6 depth, and considering that we have a boatload of forward prospects (one or two of whom might be ready for at least a middle-six role as soon as this season), then should we trade Quinn or Benson for the top-6 upgrade?

   

Can't see them moving any of the guys currently slotted into the top 6 to bring in a different top 6W.  It's suffling the deckchairs.

The only rostered players that it would make sense to trade in a deal for a top 6W are Krebs, Greenway, or reluctantly one of the D.  Quinn & Benson are expected to be major contributors in the near future if not necessarily now.  (And personally, expect Quinn to be a major contributor now.)

It doesn't make sense to make a move that is essentially treading water.

[Archie Lee]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Can't see them moving any of the guys currently slotted into the top 6 to bring in a different top 6W.  It's suffling the deckchairs.

The only rostered players that it would make sense to trade in a deal for a top 6W are Krebs, Greenway, or reluctantly one of the D.  Quinn & Benson are expected to be major contributors in the near future if not necessarily now.  (And personally, expect Quinn to be a major contributor now.)

It doesn't make sense to make a move that is essentially treading water.

Not to narrow a top 6 acquisition to the 3 players I referenced.  I use them as examples only because they are all a year from UFA and their teams might not have cap space (Vancouver) or might be looking to get younger (Philadelphia) or cheaper (Winnipeg).

Boeser had 40 goals and 73 points last year.  Konecny 33/68.  Ehlers 25/61.  Benson 11/30.  Benson would need to take an enormous leap in production for such a trade, in the short-term, to be deemed treading water.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

and considering the improved bottom 6 depth, and considering that we have a boatload of forward prospects (one or two of whom might be ready for at least a middle-six role as soon as this season), then should we trade Quinn or Benson for the top-6 upgrade?

   

This is one of those ideas that is truly awful. I'd have no faith in anything if Buffalo were stupid enough to do this. Jack Quinn was the most productive forward Buffalo had last season. Zach Benson should be treated like the top 5 pick he should have been. I wouldn't trade either for anything short of Draisaitl.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Not to narrow a top 6 acquisition to the 3 players I referenced.  I use them as examples only because they are all a year from UFA and their teams might not have cap space (Vancouver) or might be looking to get younger (Philadelphia) or cheaper (Winnipeg).

Boeser had 40 goals and 73 points last year.  Konecny 33/68.  Ehlers 25/61.  Benson 11/30.  Benson would need to take an enormous leap in production for such a trade, in the short-term, to be deemed treading water.

Benson was 18. 

29 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

You're right.  If we traded something else for a top-6 winger, Quinn or Benson would just be bumped to line 3.  But what if the barrier to a top-6 upgrade is that the team we are dealing with wants Benson or Quinn.  So the cost of Ehlers, Konecny or Boeser is Benson.  Should we do that? Would you do that?

My answer is a qualified yes.  I would trade Benson for any of those players, if we were able to get them extended first.

I wouldn't. What a horrendously terrible idea. 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Not to narrow a top 6 acquisition to the 3 players I referenced.  I use them as examples only because they are all a year from UFA and their teams might not have cap space (Vancouver) or might be looking to get younger (Philadelphia) or cheaper (Winnipeg).

Boeser had 40 goals and 73 points last year.  Konecny 33/68.  Ehlers 25/61.  Benson 11/30.  Benson would need to take an enormous leap in production for such a trade, in the short-term, to be deemed treading water.

Realizing that Benson isn't going to be adding even 20 goals this year; yes, in a very 'cut your nose off, to spite your face' sort of way trading him away wouldn't be just treading water.  But he'll only be 19 this year and he is a big part of this team's future and is expected to be a key contributor when we're getting to the seasons that Adams expects this team to be true contenders.

Personally, would not trade Benson for Ehlers straight up, much less in a package.  The others, maybe, but don't see any way Adams does so.  And either of those other 2 you mentioned, wouldn't be considered a top 6W; they'd be considered a 1st line W.  Though maybe he should be panicking over the possibility of losing his job; have seen no signs yet that he is.

[Archie Lee]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This is one of those ideas that is truly awful. I'd have no faith in anything if Buffalo were stupid enough to do this. Jack Quinn was the most productive forward Buffalo had last season. Zach Benson should be treated like the top 5 pick he should have been. I wouldn't trade either for anything short of Draisaitl.

Beyond absurd.

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Benson was 18. 

 

Of course he was.  The point is to make the playoffs.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Beyond absurd.

Of course he was.  The point is to make the playoffs.

No, the point is to win the Stanley Cup. 

Acting as though jack quinn is not the first line wing he produces at or that Zach Benson is just some normal rookie is wrong. Context matters. 

[TageMVP]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No, the point is to win the Stanley Cup. 

Acting as though jack quinn is not the first line wing he produces at or that Zach Benson is just some normal rookie is wrong. Context matters. 

Too soon to say Quinn produced first line winger numbers. While 19 points in 27 games is solid, those aren't first line numbers. Could he be a first line winger in the future? I wouldn't doubt it. 

Regarding the topic, I would trade Benson or Quinn with my preference of Benson being traded if it involved someone like a Brady Tkachuk or Ehlers 

[pastajoe]

I was thinking, could McLeod move up to 2nd line center, with Cozens and Quinn on his wings? He has the speed, perhaps he could do more being out of the shadow of the Oiler centers. Then fill the 3rd line center with Kulich or Helenius.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, TageMVP said:

Too soon to say Quinn produced first line winger numbers. While 19 points in 27 games is solid, those aren't first line numbers. Could he be a first line winger in the future? I wouldn't doubt it. 

Regarding the topic, I would trade Benson or Quinn with my preference of Benson being traded if it involved someone like a Brady Tkachuk or Ehlers 

I wouldn't trade Zach Benson for Ehlers even straight up. 

[Archie Lee]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

No, the point is to win the Stanley Cup. 

Acting as though jack quinn is not the first line wing he produces at or that Zach Benson is just some normal rookie is wrong. Context matters. 

And Zach Benson gets us closer to winning the Stanley Cup in the next 5 years than Boeser, Konecny or Ehlers in that same time-period? 

I respect your opinion and I'm not trying or wanting to get rid of Benson. There would be huge risk in any such trade.

It seems to me that there is an overlap of fans who on the one hand are immensely disappointed in our off-season while on the other-hand being committed to Benson as untouchable.  If Benson and Quinn are that good already, then I assume you see us as a playoff team?  If not, then where are we short?

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

And Zach Benson gets us closer to winning the Stanley Cup in the next 5 years than Boeser, Konecny or Ehlers in that same time-period? 

I respect your opinion and I'm not trying or wanting to get rid of Benson. There would be huge risk in any such trade.

It seems to me that there is an overlap of fans who on the one hand are immensely disappointed in our off-season while on the other-hand being committed to Benson as untouchable.  If Benson and Quinn are that good already, then I assume you see us as a playoff team?  If not, then where are we short?

Yes. 

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

And Zach Benson gets us closer to winning the Stanley Cup in the next 5 years than Boeser, Konecny or Ehlers in that same time-period? 

I respect your opinion and I'm not trying or wanting to get rid of Benson. There would be huge risk in any such trade.

It seems to me that there is an overlap of fans who on the one hand are immensely disappointed in our off-season while on the other-hand being committed to Benson as untouchable.  If Benson and Quinn are that good already, then I assume you see us as a playoff team?  If not, then where are we short?

Benson makes us more likely to win a Cup period. Trading him for any of the listed isn't going to magically make the team a Cup contender and when we do reach that point they'll be in the their mid-30s whereas Benson will be hitting his prime.

[Archie Lee]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes. 

And to the 2nd question? If Quinn is a 1st line winger and Benson is so good there are no more than 5-10 players in the NHL who you would trade him for, then I assume you think we are a playoff team?  Why all the angst about Adams?  It seems he is a genius. 

[Flashsabre]

Zegras/Farabee- Thompson-Tuch

Peterka-Cozens-Quinn

Benson-McLeod-Zucker 

Beck M-Lafferty-NAK

would be a solid forward group especially the way Ruff would want to utilize them.

For people dumping on Farabee he put up 50 points while not scoring for 20 games and a lot of that was 5 on 5 points. He would produce with Tage and Tuch and replace Skinner’s production.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Archie Lee said:

And to the 2nd question? If Quinn is a 1st line winger and Benson is so good there are no more than 5-10 players in the NHL who you would trade him for, then I assume you think we are a playoff team?  Why all the angst about Adams?  It seems he is a genius. 

Because Cozens, Thompson, Peterka and Tuch can't get injured for us to make the playoffs. There's no depth. 

[Getpucksdeep]

Not saying another piece wouldn't be nice, but Quinn is our best forward and 3rd line is crazy talk.  If he stays healthy for 82 I wouldn't be surprised by 82 points.  He's worth the price of admission, like at the game in person, not on TV - watch him make space and anticipate.  It's special.  Also, brings the 200 feet as they say.

[Ctaeth]

The reason I've seen top 6 as a need is because we have several players who are injury prone.  If we add another guy that can at least play up (even a Zucker level addition), it adds insurance for when one of our current top (i.e. Quinn) inevitably gets hurt.  

 

If you trade one of our current top 6... well you are right where you started

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Zegras/Farabee- Thompson-Tuch

Peterka-Cozens-Quinn

Benson-McLeod-Zucker 

Beck M-Lafferty-NAK

would be a solid forward group especially the way Ruff would want to utilize them.

For people dumping on Farabee he put up 50 points while not scoring for 20 games and a lot of that was 5 on 5 points. He would produce with Tage and Tuch and replace Skinner’s production.

They want Muel + Krebs + ??? in the trade for Farabee which effectively ends that conversation.

Ducks fans want absurd returns for Zegras whom I personally have very little interest in for a myriad of reasons I have mentioned before. 

 

If your not crushing yourself with acquisition cost like with the Mcleod deal; I do like the lineup you have.

 

[Archie Lee]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Because Cozens, Thompson, Peterka and Tuch can't get injured for us to make the playoffs. There's no depth. 

It's not likely that they all will get injured.  How many NHL teams have legitimate top 6 players (25-30 goal, 60+ point potential) playing on their 3rd line?  If Quinn and Benson are as good as you believe, then we can easily sustain an injury or two in the top-6.  Zucker and McLeod, maybe Kulich, can fill-in a top-six role.

I'm not trying to be a wanker.  I really like Quinn and Benson.  I think there is a scenario where we don't make any additional moves and things come together that make us a playoff team this year. I have actual optimism about that.

I don't understand the fiery anger and frustration with Adams that is overlapped with the unwavering belief that he has drafted players in Quinn and Benson who are so incredibly good that they are basically untouchable in trade.

Edited July 12 by Archie Lee

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

At present, I would say that four of the top-6 forward positions are filled by Thompson, Tuch, Cozens and Peterka. The remaining two wings will likely be filled by two of Quinn, Benson and Zucker. For the most part, fans seem to see Quinn as nearly a lock for one of the remaining spots, leaving Zucker or Benson for the last spot depending on preference for talent or experience. Long-shots would be Greenway, if Ruff opts to balance lines with a defensive presence, and Kulich, if he has a great camp.

Regardless of the above, if we were to acquire a legit top-6 forward, it pushes at least one of Quinn or Benson to line 3 (along with Zucker).

The question then is, if we really could use a top-6 upgrade, and that upgrade would mean that either Quinn or Benson (along with Zucker) would move to line 3, and considering the improved bottom 6 depth, and considering that we have a boatload of forward prospects (one or two of whom might be ready for at least a middle-six role as soon as this season), then should we trade Quinn or Benson for the top-6 upgrade?

   

No.