We have cap room and a spot -- to get Tkachuk, what would you now give up?

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

A Tkachuk brother may not be available, but Necas, Zegras and Ehlers still are.  

 

According to Chad, Ehlers isn't. Effectively he's being "offered" in name only because the ask is akin to 2 1sts and Kulich + Östlund for un-extended Ehlers. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

According to Chad, Ehlers isn't. Effectively he's being "offered" in name only because the ask is akin to 2 1sts and Kulich + Östlund for un-extended Ehlers. 

That's fine with me.  I don't mind spending assets for an upgrade, but we also don't Adams to be completely viewed as an easy mark.  The Malenstyn deal was bad enough.

 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That's fine with me.  I don't mind spending assets for an upgrade, but we also don't Adams to be completely viewed as an easy mark.  The Malenstyn deal was bad enough.

 

What is with all the Malenstyn hate?  They picked him up for a piece that wouldn't help for at least 3 more years; and possibly 5 more (if ever).  And he got that player essentially for free as he seems to have wanted Helenius at 11.

[freester]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

A Tkachuk brother may not be available, but Necas, Zegras and Ehlers still are.  

 

Necas reportedly refused to come to Buffalo. ( or wouldn’t extend).  We can’t give up big assets for a rental. 

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, freester said:

Necas reportedly refused to come to Buffalo. ( or wouldn’t extend).  We can’t give up big assets for a rental. 

Necas didn't have a NTC/NMC.  Bit it was reported he wouldn't agree to an extension w/ the Sabres.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

According to Chad, Ehlers isn't. Effectively he's being "offered" in name only because the ask is akin to 2 1sts and Kulich + Östlund for un-extended Ehlers. 

I would be talking if the deal involved Ehlers and McGroarty (assuming McGroarty had no issues with Buffalo), for that I'd give them Kulich Östlund and a pick or two if needed to make it happen. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

What is with all the Malenstyn hate?  They picked him up for a piece that wouldn't help for at least 3 more years; and possibly 5 more (if ever).  And he got that player essentially for free as he seems to have wanted Helenius at 11.

Guys like him are a dime a dozen and can be had for free.  We signed two in free agency. Our friend Robinson, has size, excellent speed, hits people and has multiple 20+ point seasons was acquired basically for free.  Why spend a premium pick on a 26 year rookie with a one year track record?  Had he given Wash a 4th or 5th rd pick then who cares, but it’s just another example of Adams poor asset management. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, freester said:

Necas reportedly refused to come to Buffalo. ( or wouldn’t extend).  We can’t give up big assets for a rental. 

 

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

Necas didn't have a NTC/NMC.  Bit it was reported he wouldn't agree to an extension w/ the Sabres.

At some point a Sabres GM, be it Adams or his replacement, is going to have to take a risk to improve the talent on his roster.  I agree you can’t break the bank on a rental, but for talent like Ehlers or Necas bringing them in for a year gives you a year to prove Buffalo is a good destination and winning cures most “destination” issues.  

Teams throw big time assets at 17 game rentals every year at the deadline.  Is this really so different?  Doesn’t the playoff chase start game 1 for the Sabres this season? 

The upside of a rental is that you also aren’t locked in if it doesn’t work. If the player isn’t a longterm fit and doesn’t elevate the guy can be traded at the deadline to recover similar assets spent in the off-season.  

Edited July 7 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

At some point a Sabres GM, be it Adams or his replacement, is going to have to take a risk to improve the talent on his roster.  I agree you can’t break the bank on a rental, but for talent like Ehlers or Necas bringing them in for a year gives you a year to prove Buffalo is a good destination and winning cures most “destination” issues.  

Teams throw big time assets at 17 game rentals every year at the deadline.  Is this really so different?  Doesn’t the playoff chase start game 1 for the Sabres this season? 

The upside of a rental is that you also aren’t locked in if it doesn’t work. If the player isn’t a longterm fit and doesn’t elevate the guy can be traded at the deadline to recover similar assets spent in the off-season.  

If a player/agent tells you that he doesn't want to play for you, you should listen to him. The issue becomes what are you going to give up? If it's next year's #1 pick, Kulich and JJP, my answer would be a resounding no. There's a good chance that Kulich will be brought with the Sabres sometime this season. For a likely rental player, I would be reluctant to make a deal. I just wish we could have signed Patrick Kane. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

36 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If a player/agent tells you that he doesn't want to play for you, you should listen to him.

What a bunch of BS.  The Sabres have a huge credibility problem.  No one “wants to be here”. Mitts must feel like he got paroled from prison.  

Winning and money cure the problem. Do you really think Buffalo was Zucker’s first choice?  He came for the money.   If you bring in a rental and the team starts winning, you’ll be amazed how quickly he starts saying how great it’s been to be part of the turnaround.

Even if the player “doesn’t want to be here” but he’s playing for a big FA deal, you’ll be amazed at how hard he still works.  The more success he has with the Sabres the bigger the next contract.

By the way it’s KA’s job to overcome that objection.  Using it as an excuse for failure is getting old.

Edited July 7 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What a bunch of BS.  The Sabres have a huge credibility problem.  No one “wants to be here”. Mitts must feel like he got paroled from prison.  

Winning and money cure the problem.  If you bring in a rental and the team starts winning, you’ll be amazed how quickly he starts saying how great it’s been to be part of the turnaround.

Even if the player “doesn’t want to be here” but he’s playing for a big FA deal, you’ll be amazed at how hard he still works.  The more success he has with the Sabres the bigger the next contract.

Do you really think Buffalo was Zucker’s first choice?  He came for the money.  

By the way it’s KA’s job to overcome that objection.  Using it as an excuse for failure is getting old.

You got it backwards. The Sabres have a credibility problem because they have a long history of making bad decisions. Acting out of desperation by shedding valuable assets for a temporary fix is chasing fool's gold. In the end, it turns into a setback that makes the journey even longer. 

Take the Ehler situation. If we get this impending UFA for assets such as Kulich, JJP and a #1 pick, and then lose him, how are you better? The Sabres have multiple players in the short pipeline who will need to be paid. Even if the GM would want to sign Ehlers to an extended contract, it would be tough to fit his new bonanza salary in without squeezing another of our players out. 

If a player doesn't want to be here (and he doesn't), then I'm not going to mess with him. Listen to what he is saying, and not what you want him to say. There is nothing wrong with being desperate to win. There is something wrong/foolish acting out of desperation. 

[French Collection]

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Take the Ehler situation. If we get this impending UFA for assets such as Kulich, JJP and a #1 pick, and then lose him, how are you better? The

I think JJP will have as good a season this year as Ehlers best ever season(25G 39A).

[JohnC]

Just now, French Collection said:

I think JJP will have as good a season this year as Ehlers best ever season(25G 39A).

I'm hoping that JJP and Quinn continue upwards. I'm intrigued by what Quinn is capable of. For those who argue ( @GASabresIUFAN ) to give up that caliber of young talent for a probable rental, I say hellll no!

[GASabresIUFAN]

25 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You got it backwards. The Sabres have a credibility problem because they have a long history of making bad decisions. Acting out of desperation by shedding valuable assets for a temporary fix is chasing fool's gold. In the end, it turns into a setback that makes the journey even longer. 

Take the Ehler situation. If we get this impending UFA for assets such as Kulich, JJP and a #1 pick, and then lose him, how are you better? The Sabres have multiple players in the short pipeline who will need to be paid. Even if the GM would want to sign Ehlers to an extended contract, it would be tough to fit his new bonanza salary in without squeezing another of our players out. 

If a player doesn't want to be here (and he doesn't), then I'm not going to mess with him. Listen to what he is saying, and not what you want him to say. There is nothing wrong with being desperate to win. There is something wrong/foolish acting out of desperation. 

You are simply wrong.  We have to begin to take risks to get this team better even if we have to overpay like we did for Zucker.  We can no longer shop only at Bargain Mart for our outside players.  We have to change the culture of this team.  Wanting to be here is not a culture.  Winning and accountability are.  We have to create a winning team to change the perception in the league.  Getting an Ehlers in here would significantly help this team.  He'd also be playing for a big UFA contract.  Both sides get what they want.  I do agree that you can't empty the pipeline for one year of Ehlers, but we may have to overpay some to get an upgrade. It's Adams job to figure out the balance.  I thought he did fine with McLeod.  Again we are basically making deadline moves now because we have to be in playoff mode for opening night.  

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You are simply wrong.  We have to begin to take risks to get this team better even if we have to overpay like we did for Zucker.  We can no longer shop only at Bargain Mart for our outside players.  We have to change the culture of this team.  Wanting to be here is not a culture.  Winning and accountability are.  We have to create a winning team to change the perception in the league.  Getting an Ehlers in here would significantly help this team.  He'd also be playing for a big UFA contract.  Both sides get what they want.  I do agree that you can't empty the pipeline for one year of Ehlers, but we may have to overpay some to get an upgrade. It's Adams job to figure out the balance.  I thought he did fine with McLeod.  Again we are basically making deadline moves now because we have to be in playoff mode for opening night.  

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you on an Ehler's deal. Check with a @tom webster post where he mentions that a Zegras deal might be under consideration. It makes much more sense from a talent/contract and cost standpoint.

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Guys like him are a dime a dozen and can be had for free.  We signed two in free agency. Our friend Robinson, has size, excellent speed, hits people and has multiple 20+ point seasons was acquired basically for free.  Why spend a premium pick on a 26 year rookie with a one year track record?  Had he given Wash a 4th or 5th rd pick then who cares, but it’s just another example of Adams poor asset management. 

There’s an assumption here that Malenstyn is the equivalent of Robinson.

While I agree that is conventional wisdom, it’s pretty clear both the Sabres and the Capitals hockey staff disagrees.

The Caps didn’t give him up for a 4th or a 5th, or even a 3rd. It took a 2nd, and the Sabres thought he was worth that.

It’s pretty clear the Sabres did not consider him a dime or dozen; they targeted him as a player they needed, and they paid the price required to get him - smaller scale, but not much different than what you are advocating below.

The market ultimately determines what a player is worth.

Im not sure this board knows enough about Malenstyn for an informed opinion. I certainly don’t. Maybe he’s a Dakota Joshua type find, maybe he’s Remi Elie. It’s a ballsy trade. Very curious to see if our pro scouts have any chops.

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

At some point a Sabres GM, be it Adams or his replacement, is going to have to take a risk to improve the talent on his roster.  I agree you can’t break the bank on a rental, but for talent like Ehlers or Necas bringing them in for a year gives you a year to prove Buffalo is a good destination and winning cures most “destination” issues.  

Teams throw big time assets at 17 game rentals every year at the deadline.  Is this really so different?  Doesn’t the playoff chase start game 1 for the Sabres this season? 

The upside of a rental is that you also aren’t locked in if it doesn’t work. If the player isn’t a longterm fit and doesn’t elevate the guy can be traded at the deadline to recover similar assets spent in the off-season.  

 

Edited July 7 by dudacek

[freester]

48 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you on an Ehler's deal. Check with a @tom webster post where he mentions that a Zegras deal might be under consideration. It makes much more sense from a talent/contract and cost standpoint.

Ehlers is a much better player than Zegras.
I would offer the Jets:

Krebs, Joker and Rosen

[thewookie1]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I would be talking if the deal involved Ehlers and McGroarty (assuming McGroarty had no issues with Buffalo), for that I'd give them Kulich Östlund and a pick or two if needed to make it happen. 

Well I’m sure as hell wouldn’t of traded 14, unprotected 25 1st, Kulich and Östlund for an iun-extended Ehlers and McGroaty

Edited July 7 by thewookie1

[freester]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

Well I’m sure as hell wouldn’t of traded 14, unprotected 25 1st, Kulich and Östlund for an iun-extended Ehlers and McGroaty

McGroaty did not want to come to Buffalo. He’s essentially a rental. 

[LGR4GM]

Russian factor far less worrisome than the NCAA factor. 

[Flashsabre]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

What is with all the Malenstyn hate?  They picked him up for a piece that wouldn't help for at least 3 more years; and possibly 5 more (if ever).  And he got that player essentially for free as he seems to have wanted Helenius at 11.

People haven’t seen Malenstyn and don’t understand his game. I bet he becomes a huge fan favourite once people understand his role and see what he can do.

[...]

10 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

People haven’t seen Malenstyn and don’t understand his game. I bet he becomes a huge fan favourite once people understand his role and see what he can do.

Although people around here are going to confuse his name with this guy's:

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, freester said:

Ehlers is a much better player than Zegras.
I would offer the Jets:

Krebs, Joker and Rosen

The Jets would snicker and say no thanks. 

[Turbo44]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The Jets would snicker and say no thanks. 

Start thinking zegras not Thachuk 

[TageMVP]

That's a hard no on Zegras for me. Talking about character issues, he's got all of them. Plus, he'd be another style of player we do not need. Soft