UPL and Malenstyn file for arbitration

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Me?  Team Storm Cloud?

I beg to differ.  I am happy with today's trade, very happy with Lindy's return and reasonably happy with the offseason so far, I still believe in TP as an owner and in most of the players, including the ones who disappointed last year, and I'm reasonably open minded on KA.

You have been posting for a long time. The one thing you are not is a "Storm Cloud". You may be other things but regarding the Sabres you are usually fair-minded. 

[French Collection]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

There could be some tension with UPL towards Adams.  If the league settles it UPL might accept it better.  We don’t know his personality.  

We know he’s not fond of being called UPL.

I will refrain from using that in his presence but for typing purposes, I think we all stick with that.

I think they get a deal done but it could be shorter term in order for KA to see what he can do, for UPL to bump up his value and to see how Levi progresses.

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, French Collection said:

We know he’s not fond of being called UPL.

I will refrain from using that in his presence but for typing purposes, I think we all stick with that.

I think they get a deal done but it could be shorter term in order for KA to see what he can do, for UPL to bump up his value and to see how Levi progresses.

I did not know this.  He likes the fans chanting Luuuuuuke.  So does his father.  

[French Collection]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I did not know this.  He likes the fans chanting Luuuuuuke.  So does his father.  

I’m sure he likes that chant, it is understandable.

There was a clip on the web of him and some buddies in Finland and he seemed miffed at the UPL tag. It was in Finnish so the translation may be off.

[Mango]

21 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Funny, Boston’s GM was not sent packing when Swayman went to arbitration.   
 

There could be some tension with UPL towards Adams.  If the league settles it UPL might accept it better.  We don’t know his personality.  

Comparing the situation and roster construction in Boston is disingenuous.
 

Sending one player to arbitration isn’t a fireable or offense.

Missing the playoffs 4 years in a row largely because of mismanaging the roster construction and the goalie position in particular is. 

[JustOneParade]

12 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I did not know this.  He likes the fans chanting Luuuuuuke.  So does his father.  

I see what you did there. 👍

[DarthEbriate]

24 minutes ago, French Collection said:

We know he’s not fond of being called UPL.

I will refrain from using that in his presence but for typing purposes, I think we all stick with that.

I think they get a deal done but it could be shorter term in order for KA to see what he can do, for UPL to bump up his value and to see how Levi progresses.

The upcoming question is... what does GMKA do with Levi next offseason (10.2 RFA). Is this the goalie he suddenly throws cash at? What if Levi has a disastrous season or injury?

How long can you ignore the goalie position when you're a fringe playoff team sitting on $8+M in cap space every season and your franchise has had Hasek, Miller, Barrasso?

28 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

What a sad list.  Time to break that cycle isn’t it? 

It's damnable considering what the team has needed this entire time.

You could see the difference in team play when Anderson and Ullmark were in net.

Edited July 6 by DarthEbriate

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

The upcoming question is... what does GMKA do with Levi next offseason (10.2 RFA). Is this the goalie he suddenly throws cash at? What if Levi has a disastrous season or injury?

How long can you ignore the goalie position when you're a fringe playoff team sitting on $8+M in cap space every season and your franchise has had Hasek, Miller, Barrasso?

I think KA needs to just let it play out. Neither UPL or Levi is at their peak, so there is no panic in getting them long term deals. It is also early to gamble on a long term deal with this small of a sample size, especially in Levi’s case.

KA has gambled in the case of Cozens and Power but Levi is still unproven at this point.

[mjd1001]

Just now, French Collection said:

I think KA needs to just let it play out. Neither UPL or Levi is at their peak, so there is no panic in getting them long term deals. It is also early to gamble on a long term deal with this small of a sample size, especially in Levi’s case.

KA has gambled in the case of Cozens and Power but Levi is still unproven at this point.

I understand your view, and I go back and forth, but I'd rather give UPL a longer deal.  If you overpay Cozens or Power and they turn out to be 'average', its a MUCH bigger financial penalty than if you UPL turns out to be 'average' and not your starter.  My thinking is you aren't going to pay UPL a 7 year deal for 7-9 million.  If you give him 3 years for 4.5....that is hurting you a lot less. 

Its a gamble, but I'd think..risking 4.5 million for the potential reward/failure is a much less risk than spending long term on the other deals.  Goalie is the ONE area I would take a risk, especially if its likely to be half the length of a deal and maybe 60% the money of those other guys.  UPL reaching his potential helps you just as much, if not more, than those other guys for likely less of a cost.

[Stoner]

Whose Malenstyn?

[French Collection]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I understand your view, and I go back and forth, but I'd rather give UPL a longer deal.  If you overpay Cozens or Power and they turn out to be 'average', its a MUCH bigger financial penalty than if you UPL turns out to be 'average' and not your starter.  My thinking is you aren't going to pay UPL a 7 year deal for 7-9 million.  If you give him 3 years for 4.5....that is hurting you a lot less. 

Its a gamble, but I'd think..risking 4.5 million for the potential reward/failure is a much less risk than spending long term on the other deals.  Goalie is the ONE area I would take a risk, especially if its likely to be half the length of a deal and maybe 60% the money of those other guys.  UPL reaching his potential helps you just as much, if not more, than those other guys for likely less of a cost.

Pretty close to my thinking.

My idea of a short term deal for UPL is 3 years +/- 1. By the time that deal is done there should be a clearer picture of who is the guy to go forward with.

Another possibility is one of those two becoming a solid backup while the other is a clear #1.  My view from six hours away is that these two may have a hard time co-existing as a Swayman-Ullmark type of tandem.

[Pimlach]

48 minutes ago, Mango said:

Comparing the situation and roster construction in Boston is disingenuous.
 

Sending one player to arbitration isn’t a fireable or offense.

Missing the playoffs 4 years in a row largely because of mismanaging the roster construction and the goalie position in particular is. 

I’m not comparing the Teams situation or the roster construction.  Merely point out the Swayman situation, which is in many ways similar to UPLs. 

You are the one who said Adams should be “sent packing” if they go to arbitration. Now you say it’s not a fireable offense.  Make up your mind.  

If you want to fire Adams for the past four years that is another topic in another thread and has little to do with arbitration.  

Edited July 6 by Pimlach

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

What if Levi has a disastrous season or injury?

I mean, he hasn't even had the customary double hip surgery yet.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Whose Malenstyn?

The player the Sabres got in exchange for Cole Hutson.  That should clear things up.

[nfreeman]

Someone pls correct me if I'm wrong, but I think UPL has 2 more seasons before UFA -- so a 1-year arbitration award wouldn't be a disaster.

Still, I think they need to sign him to a 3- or 4-year deal and get some stability at the position at long last.

[...]

18 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Still, I think they need to sign him to a 3- or 4-year deal and get some stability at the position at long last.

Well, the challenge here is that he hasn't played enough to determine whether he can be consistently good.

Given that KA has handed out undeserved long-term contracts, it's likely KA has some good reasons to doubt signing UPL long term.

[shrader]

47 minutes ago, ... said:

Well, the challenge here is that he hasn't played enough to determine whether he can be consistently good.

Given that KA has handed out undeserved long-term contracts, it's likely KA has some good reasons to doubt signing UPL long term.

His obsession with Levi is very clearly established at this point. 

[Pimlach]

13 minutes ago, shrader said:

His obsession with Levi is very clearly established at this point. 

Yes.  And that may be part of the problem in the negotiations.   

[Brawndo]

Granato had a Levi Obsession as well. It’s one of the reasons it took so long for Levi to be sent to Rochester. 
 

 

[kas23]

Look what went down in Florida. The Sabres need 2 great goalies. You just never know what could happen. Sign him for 3-4 years and then reassess the situation. 

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I’m not comparing the Teams situation or the roster construction.  Merely point out the Swayman situation, which is in many ways similar to UPLs. 

You are the one who said Adams should be “sent packing” if they go to arbitration. Now you say it’s not a fireable offense.  Make up your mind.  

If you want to fire Adams for the past four years that is another topic in another thread and has little to do with arbitration.  

It’s totally unrealistic to treat both teams, GM’s, and goalies in a vaccuum. 

Take these two employees:

1. Rick: Presidents club. Rarely makes any mistakes. Awesome leader and teammate. Bungles one or two quotes per year. But certainly makes up for it by constantly having his brand ranked top 5
 

2. Joe: None of the customers want to work with him. He’s a nice guy but showed up randomly as a Named Accounts AE after just working in accounts receivable earlier in his career.  Most forgot he even existed until he came. He constantly misquotes major opportunities every month that costs the company money.

You’re out here trying to convince people that the misquoted between these two people are identical. They’re not. At all. 

[Stoner]

4 hours ago, Doohickie said:

The player the Sabres got in exchange for Cole Hutson.  That should clear things up.

I'm rubbing off on you.

[7+6=13]

18 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Me?  Team Storm Cloud?

I beg to differ.  I am happy with today's trade, very happy with Lindy's return and reasonably happy with the offseason so far, I still believe in TP as an owner and in most of the players, including the ones who disappointed last year, and I'm reasonably open minded on KA.

My apologies for depicting you as mostly negative.  My recollection was incorrect.

[shrader]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Granato had a Levi Obsession as well. It’s one of the reasons it took so long for Levi to be sent to Rochester. 
 

 

I really don’t know how much of that was Granato. I’d put good money on the thought that they had one of those handshake deals with Levi that he wouldn’t be sent to the minors if he signed. It takes a while to finally get to that point where you convince him “hey kid, this move is in your own best interest”.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

I really don’t know how much of that was Granato. I’d put good money on the thought that they had one of those handshake deals with Levi that he wouldn’t be sent to the minors if he signed. It takes a while to finally get to that point where you convince him “hey kid, this move is in your own best interest”.

I’m going to politely disagree with this. 

Levi signed with the understanding he would be given every opportunity to get NHL time from the beginning and (much to the chagrin of this board) no long term goaltenders would be signed to block his path. I do not believe the promise of no AHL Time was given. 

Adams gathers opinions from various sources, the front office, coaches and such. One of his weaknesses ( yes there are a lot more) is allowing certain opinions to carry more weight. There were rumblings that certain members of the front office wanted Levi to go to Rochester, but Granato and Adams to an extent felt he gave them a better opportunity to win. A few weeks after these initial rumors, Jeff Marek mentioned on his radio show, that there are those in the Sabres Front Office who felt Levi getting a majority of the starts in Rochester was the best option for him, but a few people still wanted him in the NHL. After hearing this from a major member of the Hockey Media, I do believe those rumblings to be the truth.