Trade: C Ryan McLeod - Oilers for Matt Savoie

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, kas23 said:

LV arguably got the better of that trade, but Kevyn’s hands were tied.

Kevyn tied his own hands though.

[jsb]

14 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Kevyn tied his own hands though.

I think that was all Pegula

[Doohicksie]

23 minutes ago, jsb said:

I think that was all Pegula

No, I don't think so.  That first year he brought in Hall and Staal and company in an effort to win now with Eichel; I think *that* was at Pegula's urging, but that same summer (2020) he signed Reinhart to only a one year bridge, which to me was the first concrete sign that Kevyn was thinking rebuild.  I think he was already planning to trade Eichel before he was incapacitated with his neck injury.

In 2020 Kevyn brought in Hall, Staal, Eakin and Sheahan to try to give Eichel some veteran help, I believe at the urging of Krueger and TPegs.  It was only after that failed spectacularly that Kevyn was able to get buy-in from TPegs to move some of the rotten tankfruit out do the larger rebuild.

Edited July 11 by Doohickie

[SJSabres Fan]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

Did anyone hear his interview? 

I will try not to put too much stock in it. But he sounded bummed. 

I can’t blame him, of course. I trust he’ll be a pro about it and get to work. He’ll want to earn his next deal, after all.

He is here for the Quickening…

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

I respectfully disagree. The first 2 seasons with Adams had him reshaping the roster, primarily with very young talent. The next 2 seasons, he used Granato to develop the talent. Wise move given Granato's acumen for such. Now, the young talent is coming of prime age or just under. Adams isn't acting out of desperation, he's acting out of need, primarily the need of the roster to get the kids to the next lvl, the playoffs. These kids aren't playing season after season in a vacuum, they're progressing, with experience, with age, so is the roster. IMHO.

Did Adams really use Granato develop the talent?   Krueger hired Granato, Boterill hired Krueger.  When Krueger was fired Granato was there and given the job, no real coach search.  

Did Granato really do an any better job developing young talent than several other top candidates would do?  He played kids and had trouble getting his team to play a consistent and balanced two way game.  

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

No, I don't think so.  That first year he brought in Hall and Staal and company in an effort to win now with Eichel; I think *that* was at Pegula's urging, but that same summer (2020) he signed Reinhart to only a one year bridge, which to me was the first concrete sign that Kevyn was thinking rebuild.  I think he was already planning to trade Eichel before he was incapacitated with his neck injury.

Don't believe that giving out 1 year deals in the Covid summer ('20) necessarily meant that Adams didn't want those guys signed long term.  Nobody knew how much longer those "2 weeks to flatten the curve" were going to stretch out, nor how cash would start flowing again.  This team's billionaire owners had their money tied up primarily in rather non-liquid assets: NG bearing land and professional sports teams, both of which were not generating cash like they had prior to that March as the economy was completely locked down.  Nobody traveling -> low energy prices.  Nobody allowed to attend sporting events (which were still shut down at that time as well) -> no in person sales from attending patrons (nor even TV networks wanting to pay their owed monies because there were no games for them to telecast (the leagues don't hold up their end of the bargain, the networks aren't going to want to hold up their end)). 

So, the owners had a very good reason to not want to commit to any LT contracts at the time.  They might be committing to cash outlays that they would not necessarily be able to cover.

While personally agree that Adams would've rather switched gears right when he came into the GM's office, he did not do so; he tried to continue with the plan that Botterill had been implementing.  Had Covid not hit and the owners had their liquid cash flow severely disrupted, there is a very good chance that Reinhart and Ullmark would've been offered multiyear deals eating some of their UFA years rather than 1 year deals that walked them to within 1 year (or 0 years in Linus' case) of UFA status.  And IF those 2 (and maybe some others like Montour) all have LT deals, then Eichel might not've offered to be trade bait should there be an extended rebuild.  We'll never know the answer to how it would've played out, because life as we knew it changed remarkably that spring.

IF Eichel would've still asked out, we still would've been heading down this path, but not sure of just how full the extent would've been (especially had Reinhart and some others been extended).

[Doohicksie]

Perhaps.  It's also a reasonable read of the tea leaves.

[Scottysabres]

5 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Did Adams really use Granato develop the talent?   Krueger hired Granato, Boterill hired Krueger.  When Krueger was fired Granato was there and given the job, no real coach search.  

Did Granato really do an any better job developing young talent than several other top candidates would do?  He played kids and had trouble getting his team to play a consistent and balanced two way game.  

Note I didn't say he hired him develop talent, I said he used him to develop talent. Granato was known as a very respected development coach, are we denying this now?

Given the age of the roster, yes, it is my opinion it was a wise move. 

[That Aud Smell]

7 hours ago, ska-T Chitown said:

who he be?

McLeod

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

McLeod

Chief?

[jsb]

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

No, I don't think so.  That first year he brought in Hall and Staal and company in an effort to win now with Eichel; I think *that* was at Pegula's urging, but that same summer (2020) he signed Reinhart to only a one year bridge, which to me was the first concrete sign that Kevyn was thinking rebuild.  I think he was already planning to trade Eichel before he was incapacitated with his neck injury.

In 2020 Kevyn brought in Hall, Staal, Eakin and Sheahan to try to give Eichel some veteran help, I believe at the urging of Krueger and TPegs.  It was only after that failed spectacularly that Kevyn was able to get buy-in from TPegs to move some of the rotten tankfruit out do the larger rebuild.

Not allowing Eichel to have his surgery couldn’t have happened without Pegula’s say so. No way KA makes that call independently.

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/excited-ryan-mcleod-ready-for-great-opportunity-after-trade-to-sabres/

 

[Doohicksie]

14 minutes ago, jsb said:

Not allowing Eichel to have his surgery couldn’t have happened without Pegula’s say so. No way KA makes that call independently.

Going back to my original "Kevyn tied his own hands" what I mean is that before the neck injury, Kevyn had already resolved to move on from Eichel.  Once he did that, the onus was on him. 

The injury complicated things, but I see the Sabres' position:  The surgery carried risk and he didn't want the Sabres to bear the risk within their organization; the wanted to trade the risk with the player.  Also, maybe if they did the surgery immediately, it could have resolved the issue, but I don't think the issue was that black and white in the beginning, and once it became clear that it was a sticking point, allowing Jack to have the surgery and recover would have further delayed the trade.  Was that all on Kevyn?  It was on the Sabres collectively and I'm sure some of the decisions came with a consensus from ownership, but I don't think that takes away Kevyn's responsibility for the situation as the GM.

[Doohicksie]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/excited-ryan-mcleod-ready-for-great-opportunity-after-trade-to-sabres/

He sounds a little stunned by the trade but trying to make the best of it.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

He sounds a little stunned by the trade but trying to make the best of it.

Obviously being sent packing after a Cup run has got to be disappointing, especially when you've been replaced by Henrique.  

However, he truly  has an opportunity to become a semi-core player.  We have him for at least 2 years and if he continues to improve to say a 40pt player, he could be here for the next 5-6 years and be a vital piece of the hoped turnaround.

[Doohicksie]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Obviously being sent packing after a Cup run has got to be disappointing, especially when you've been replaced by Henrique.  

However, he truly  has an opportunity to become a semi-core player.  We have him for at least 2 years and if he continues to improve to say a 40pt player, he could be here for the next 5-6 years and be a vital piece of the hoped turnaround.

If Kevyn knows what he's doing (yeah, I know...) McCleod could be a key piece of that turnaround.

[kas23]

14 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Kevyn tied his own hands though.

Gosh, do we really need to go through this again? Eichel asked for a trade well before he became injured. The injury was a red herring. I guess we could say, why did Eichel get to the point of asking for a trade, but that was before Kevyn’s time. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Going back to my original "Kevyn tied his own hands" what I mean is that before the neck injury, Kevyn had already resolved to move on from Eichel.  Once he did that, the onus was on him. 

 

I'm not so sure about this. There's been a lot of information and innuendo floated. This is my understanding:

• Eichel had made noises about his unhappiness with the team's progress well before Adams was hired.
• When Botterill was fired, Eichel made it clear he had no interest sticking around for any rebuild
• Krueger helped broker a plan with Pegula that the team would try to load up and make a run for the playoffs that year, which Adams then executed.
• Jack clearly arrived at camp with some kind of physical issue that was hindering him. The team got off to a terrible start and Jack was done after a hit 20-odd games into the season against the Islanders that either caused or aggravated his neck injury.
• With the season an abysmal failure and the Sabres historically bad, Adams went to Pegula with a plan to essentially hit the reset button and rebuild the team entirely.
• Pegula/team doctors (depending on who you believe) denied Jack his desired surgery, complicating a trade process that Jack clearly wanted regardless of injury, and Kevyn likely wanted as well despite playing the 'want to be here' card.

It's possible Adams had decided it best to move on from Eichel even before he got the job. It's possible that Eichel had been passive-aggressively pushing for — or even outright asking for — a trade before then too.

But Eichel was clearly injured before the well-publicized Florida trip where the teardown was approved, and he had clearly delivered his ultimatum well before the season had even started.

Are you saying that Eichel would have been happy to stay after the disaster that was Krueger's last year if only Adams did what he was told?

Or that Adams had tied his own hands by refusing to allow a player under contract to tell him how to manage the team?

Edited July 11 by dudacek

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

I guess we could say, why did Eichel get to the point of asking for a trade, but that was before Kevyn’s time. 

No, it coincides with Kevyn's arrival and talk of yet another rebuild.  That's when Eichel wanted out.

[Doohicksie]

38 minutes ago, dudacek said:

But Eichel was clearly injured before the well-publicized Florida trip where the teardown was approved, and he had clearly delivered his ultimatum well before the season had even started.

I think Kevyn floated the rebuild plan when he was first hired, but then Krueger (and Pegula) prevailed on him to "load up" and make a run.

But sure, there's lots of speculation and reports from people who don't really know, so here on Sabrespace posters have various versions of what went down.

[Doohicksie]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Are you saying that Eichel would have been happy to stay after the disaster that was Krueger's last year if only Adams did what he was told?

Or that Adams had tied his own hands by refusing to allow a player under contract to tell him how to manage the team?

I think he tied his own hands by proposing the rebuild when he was first hired, and when Eichel got wind of it he said he wanted out.

[Thorner]

14 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Perhaps.  It's also a reasonable read of the tea leaves.

Jack is on record saying he asked for a trade because Adams said he wanted to rebuild. Adams idea to rebuild came first. You can call Jack an outright liar but, it fits with what you are saying and I see no reason to take that tact especially because no one in the org has ever denied it 

[That Aud Smell]

Please, no.

[Thorner]

47 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

No, it coincides with Kevyn's arrival and talk of yet another rebuild.  That's when Eichel wanted out.

People hate Occam’s razor, eh?

Adams expressed his desire to rebuild upon being hired. This triggered Jack’s request. We know this because Jack stated in on tv in as many words to Elliot Friedman. They briefly rescinded that and “went for it” with Hall, before using the colossal failure of that shortened season as evidence for why their initial desire to rebuild was the correct one

Edited July 11 by Thorny

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Please, no.