Trade: C Ryan McLeod - Oilers for Matt Savoie

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Or they simply feel that Helenius is ahead of him already and is a better prospect at C.   Similar to Benson passing him last season.  
 

There is no way they can field all of these guys, tough decisions had to be made. They added a roster player for another player with potential that was headed 

A lot of ppl care about prospect size so who do we want in a future NHLplayoff game?, do ppl want 5'10" 179lb Savoie who's 20 or 5'11" 190lb Helenius who just turned 18? 

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

A lot of ppl care about prospect size so who do we want in a future NHLplayoff game?, do ppl want 5'10" 179lb Savoie who's 20 or 5'11" 190lb Helenius who just turned 18? 

I am not one of them that worried about 1 inch and 10 pounds when you’re talking high skill players.  
 

Would love to know how the Sabres ranked these guys.  It a moot point now.  Savioe will get lots of support in Edmonton and should do well. 

[Turbo44]

20 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

A lot of ppl care about prospect size so who do we want in a future NHLplayoff game?, do ppl want 5'10" 179lb Savoie who's 20 or 5'11" 190lb Helenius who just turned 18? 

It’s easy to discount a player we trade away, human nature actually. Reality is Savoie is a good to very good prospect, I Wouldn’t say great. I hope both teams do well with this trade. Facts about Savoie, which may have made him tradeable in their eyes:

1. He put up a ton of points in juniors year but he should have as a 20 year old. More impressive to me is the 5 points in 6 games in the AHl.

2. There’s something we don’t know that people don’t like about him; 3 minutes of playing time in his one Buffalo game and left off of Canada’s team.

3. His size isn’t ideal and plays more of a perimeter game

4. when the Sabres scouts were watching him after they drafted him they said.”we’d always come away raving about Beneon. He was the best player on the ice.” Weird thing to say and how can this not be taken as a bad thing about Savoie

5. McLeod grew up in Ontario, near Buffalo, Savoie in Edmonton….homecoming of sorts for both.

6. Kulich, Helenius, Östlund and maybe even Whalberg seem better rounded players. Obviously Benson is. Seriously, they may never have had room for him on the roster.  Benson is a fixture, Kulich would seem to be next and I think they really want to have Helenius in North America this year. Helenius already has a man’s body (you see his arms) and seriously may be more nhl ready right now than Savoie

 

Edited July 6 by Turbo44

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, jahnyc said:

Given where he was picked in the draft, I would have expected that Savoie would become a top six forward.  I understand that we did receive some value back, but it is disappointing on a number of levels, including that the organization soured on him before he could start full-time with the Amerks (or Sabres).  Makes me wonder about the front office's ability to assess draft eligible players and overall drafting skills.

I don't believe that the organization soured on him. It's more of an issue where he was a good prospect who was in the same tier as a number of our other prospects. When you have a surplus of assets that are similar then it makes a lot of sense to parlay that asset for another that has immediate utility for your NHL team. Edmonton had a different roster situation that required a deal, as we did. The issue isn't who got the better deal as does this deal serve one another's interest. I think it did. 

[Brawndo]

 

[French Collection]

8 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

It’s easy to discount a player we trade away, human nature actually. Reality is Savoie is a good to very good prospect, I Wouldn’t say great. I hope both teams do well with this trade. Facts about Savoie, which may have made him tradeable in their eyes:

1. He put up a ton of points in juniors year but he should have as a 20 year old. More impressive to me is the 5 points in 6 games in the AHl.

2. There’s something we don’t know that people don’t like about him; 3 minutes of playing time in his one Buffalo game and left off of Canada’s team.

3. His size isn’t ideal and plays more of a perimeter game

4. when the Sabres scouts were watching him after they drafted him they said.”we’d always come away raving about Beneon. He was the best player on the ice.” Weird thing to say and how can this not be taken as a bad thing about Savoie

5. McLeod grew up in Ontario, near Buffalo, Savoie in Edmonton….homecoming of sorts for both.

6. Kulich, Helenius, Östlund and maybe even Whalberg seem better rounded players. Obviously Benson is. Seriously, they may never have had room for him on the roster.  Benson is a fixture, Kulich would seem to be next and I think they really want to have Helenius in North America this year. Helenius already has a man’s body (you see his arms) and seriously may be more nhl ready right now than Savoie

 

I’ll repeat again that I like Savoie and wish him well.

I don’t want to talk trash about him but I was not impressed with his Memorial Cup. I watched every game and while he had some highlights, I expected him to be a difference maker and separate himself from the crowd. As a 20 year old top pick, he didn’t shine as brightly as I had hoped.

Small sample sizes but he did the same thing at the World Juniors.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

His work on the PK is special 

I agree there.

When they were healthy, the Sabres PK of Tage and him up front, Samuelsson in the back end worked well. Put the tall guys out there with a lot of reach.  They can pretty much stand in their spot and not 'chase' the puck that much because they covered so much ground with their reach and stick.  

I actually like that method of PK.  When you have too much movement on the PK, when you chase the puck (my personal issue with Cozens), you leave areas open and that is when teams take advantage of you.

Now the question is...does Ruff want the same kind of PK? Big guys, don't move around too much to let the other team get you out of position?  Or does he want a pressure based PK (where someone like Cozens might excel and guys like Tage and Greenway might not be as good?)

[Doohicksie]

27 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Further down in the comments:

 

[French Collection]

I was reading some stuff about the trade in the Edmonton Journal.

Most of the “experts” love the deal and he becomes their #1 prospect.

Interesting tidbit is that his brother Carter was just cut loose by the Oilers, they didn’t qualify him.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Similar to Benson passing him last season.  

This really struck me as significant at the time.

[Jorcus]

I am not against the trade of Savoie. The Sabres must have felt he was not going to help us this year. I worry about McCloud's lack of production so far in the NHL. It's Obvious he was not getting top  line minutes with the Oilers. This is certainly a projection pick up where it's possible his numbers can jump with different usage. I hope so because you really need better production out that center position. Well at least the team is going to look different. 

I will say this for the Oilers they love adding people who can score goals.

 

Edited July 6 by Jorcus

[Doohicksie]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Similar to Benson passing him last season.  

This really struck me as significant at the time.

At the time I felt that it was a case of Benson being really special and having a more mature (smarter) game.  I didn't really see it as significant.

3 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

I will say this for the Oilers they love adding people who can score goals.

But in the end the Cup went to a team that plays fast, tenacious, two-way hockey.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I was reading some stuff about the trade in the Edmonton Journal.

Most of the “experts” love the deal and he becomes their #1 prospect.

Interesting tidbit is that his brother Carter was just cut loose by the Oilers, they didn’t qualify him.

Savoie probably is their top prospect, but he wasn't the Sabres. Buffalo could absolutely lose the trade, but Kulich and Helenius are better than Savoie impo at this current moment. I worry about Savoie in tight checking games until he proves otherwise. 

Kulich, Östlund, Wahlberg, Strbak, all outproduced Savoie at the wjc20. It's a short tournament, but I find that interesting. Helenius basically produced the same as him while being one of the youngest players there. 

Again, Savoie can be very good in the NHL. We don't know yet, but idk if he's Buffalo's best anymore. 

[Doohicksie]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

but idk if he's Buffalo's best anymore. 

He's clearly not Buffalo's best anymore.  But your point is accurate; he wasn't even before the trade.

[Doohicksie]

And the reason Savoie is now EDM's best prospect is that their prospect pool isn't that great.

[PotentPowerPlay21]

I've read some analysis which states that the Sabres have too many of the same type of small skilled players who all fit the same mold and therefore Savoie was expendable. Well my question is: "Who in hell drafted all these players?"

Who in the Sabres hierarchy kept pounding the table to draft all these undersized prospects? Jerry Forton? Kevyn Adams? The scouts? Somebody needs to be accountable for this strategic error in drafting. You can't trade away a top prospect and then say we have too many similar players so the top prospect is expendable.

It reminds me of the story of the boy who kills both his parents and then asks the court for leniency because he is an orphan. This is what the Sabres brass is saying. We screwed up drafting and now we are admitting it. Is this how an organization builds a Stanley Cup winner? No.

Kevyn Adams should fire the guy who drafted Savoie and fire the guy who traded him at a bargain price.

 

[Doohicksie]

17 minutes ago, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

Well my question is: "Who in hell drafted all these players?"

Who cares?  Get the best assets you can.  They become trade capital.  Why all the hand wringing?

I think a lot of fans are too plugged into the NFL draft.  The NFL drafts mature prospects that are ready or nearly ready for NFL play.  The NHL drafts true prospects before a lot of them even need to shave and have to develop them into NHLers.  Not everyone an NHL team drafts is ever going to play on the team that drafted them.  They become assets that may play for the team, may be moved to another team to get a needed asset, or may not even pan out. 

Savoie is a good prospect but he still hasn't played more than handful of games in the AHL and in big tournaments has been overshadowed by allegedly lesser players.

Edited July 6 by Doohickie

[Doohicksie]

14 minutes ago, seer775 said:

I'd offer that Savoie had massive production in the WHL and ppg in the AHL. I think he was our best prospect. 

Ppg in the AHL?  He scored 5 points in 6 games. 

1. Not a ppg
2. Ridiculously small sample size

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Ppg in the AHL?  He scored 5 points in 6 games. 

1. Not a ppg
2. Ridiculously small sample size

It would be interesting to hear Seth Appert’s take on Savoie. He has seen all of these prospects up close.

[Doohicksie]

3 minutes ago, French Collection said:

It would be interesting to hear Seth Appert’s take on Savoie. He has seen all of these prospects up close.

I'm sure there have been conversations between Appert, Lindy and Keyvn, as well as the scouting department.

But again:  6 games is not a valid sample size.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I am not one of them that worried about 1 inch and 10 pounds when you’re talking high skill players.  
 

Would love to know how the Sabres ranked these guys.  It a moot point now.  Savioe will get lots of support in Edmonton and should do well. 

But when Helenius turns 20, he'll be 2" and 20lbs bigger than Savoie in all likelihood. 

[LGR4GM]

52 minutes ago, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

I've read some analysis which states that the Sabres have too many of the same type of small skilled players who all fit the same mold and therefore Savoie was expendable. Well my question is: "Who in hell drafted all these players?"

Who in the Sabres hierarchy kept pounding the table to draft all these undersized prospects? Jerry Forton? Kevyn Adams? The scouts? Somebody needs to be accountable for this strategic error in drafting. You can't trade away a top prospect and then say we have too many similar players so the top prospect is expendable.

It reminds me of the story of the boy who kills both his parents and then asks the court for leniency because he is an orphan. This is what the Sabres brass is saying. We screwed up drafting and now we are admitting it. Is this how an organization builds a Stanley Cup winner? No.

Kevyn Adams should fire the guy who drafted Savoie and fire the guy who traded him at a bargain price.

 

Zach Benson made Matt Savoie expendable. Do you want to fire the person who wanted Zach Benson?

Also, I think anyone adding Helenius into a pool with Savoie calling them the same is blind.  Helenius is bigger for 1 but more importantly, does not play hockey the same way Savoie does. They are different.

Edited July 6 by LGR4GM

[tom webster]

51 minutes ago, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

I've read some analysis which states that the Sabres have too many of the same type of small skilled players who all fit the same mold and therefore Savoie was expendable. Well my question is: "Who in hell drafted all these players?"

Who in the Sabres hierarchy kept pounding the table to draft all these undersized prospects? Jerry Forton? Kevyn Adams? The scouts? Somebody needs to be accountable for this strategic error in drafting. You can't trade away a top prospect and then say we have too many similar players so the top prospect is expendable.

It reminds me of the story of the boy who kills both his parents and then asks the court for leniency because he is an orphan. This is what the Sabres brass is saying. We screwed up drafting and now we are admitting it. Is this how an organization builds a Stanley Cup winner? No.

Kevyn Adams should fire the guy who drafted Savoie and fire the guy who traded him at a bargain price.

 

Guess what, the easiest players to trade are the best players. If you draft the best player available regardless of size, you acquire more players other teams want thus accumulating assets needed to make your team better. It’s really not a novel concept.

[LGR4GM]

They just don't play hockey the same.

Savoie

 

Helenius 

 

 

 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

I've read some analysis which states that the Sabres have too many of the same type of small skilled players who all fit the same mold and therefore Savoie was expendable. Well my question is: "Who in hell drafted all these players?"

Who in the Sabres hierarchy kept pounding the table to draft all these undersized prospects? Jerry Forton? Kevyn Adams? The scouts? Somebody needs to be accountable for this strategic error in drafting. You can't trade away a top prospect and then say we have too many similar players so the top prospect is expendable.

It reminds me of the story of the boy who kills both his parents and then asks the court for leniency because he is an orphan. This is what the Sabres brass is saying. We screwed up drafting and now we are admitting it. Is this how an organization builds a Stanley Cup winner? No.

Kevyn Adams should fire the guy who drafted Savoie and fire the guy who traded him at a bargain price.

 

Meh.  Savoie turned into our 3C. If he flamed out and we got no value out of him I’d be bummed, but we got a good rostered player out of that pick.  I think that’s value.