Trade: C Ryan McLeod - Oilers for Matt Savoie

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, shrader said:

He was talked up as potentially the best goal scorer of his draft class. He put up 52 in his draft season. 
 

@Thorny, he was ahead of Peterka prior to the injury and JJ just put up 28 last year. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that he should surpass him again if/when healthy. Those 9 goals, by the way, were in only 27 games. That projects out to 27 over a full season. 30 should be easily within grasp, again, if/when healthy. 

*Expecting* linear development, from *any* young player, and especially from a player who has missed a lot of time while developing, is risky. This is sort of conventional wisdom that is playing the role of dissenting opinion in this thread.
 

after all we’ve been through with prospects  

im ok with that, it’s necessary, when the default opinion in many other cases appears to be “expect 30”.

Edited July 9 by Thorny

[Thorny]

“Ahead of Peterka prior to the injury” 

well, yes, exactly. Peterka kept playing. I just think people should be granting the kid a bit of runway. if we want to all disregard that, it’s all good. He met very well put up the 30

- - - 

Also, re: Quinn being a “goal scorer”. Personally I see him as more of a Mark Stone type who does everything. Probably with a pretty balanced stat line goals vs assists wise. So yes he’ll score a lot of goals but not necessarily be the connotation “goal scorer” sometimes implies 

Edited July 9 by Thorny

[shrader]

34 minutes ago, Thorny said:

*Expecting* linear development, from *any* young player, and especially from a player who has missed a lot of time while developing, is risky. This is sort of conventional wisdom that is playing the role of dissenting opinion in this thread.
 

after all we’ve been through with prospects  

im ok with that, it’s necessary, when the default opinion in many other cases appears to be “expect 30”.

Expecting linear development? I’m not even sure what that means. That’s not a thing when you really only have one time point. But anyway, it’s mostly just about expecting any growth. There’s more potential in him than there is with probably any other kid on this team. People are going to dream and dream big. 

[That Aud Smell]

59 minutes ago, ... said:

This is interesting. I'm not one of "those people" making predictions about Quinn, however my impression has been that Quinn is expected to be a goal scorer. Is that not the case? Was it ever the case?

Agreed - interesting. I envision him as a guy who reliably scores 20, typically gets ~25, and occasionally gets 30+ all while playing a hard, responsible 200’ game.

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Not really, not if you aren’t a GM responsible for the result, and not just hindsight plausibility

Put me in for 33 on the Mighty Quinn. 

 

[GoPuckYourself]

 

[Cityo'Rasmii]

4 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

 

can you play defense??

[BullBuchanan]

4 hours ago, Big Guava said:

Because most fans have the IQ of a rock or their picket fence.

Quinn will be if he stays healthy and Peterka could be a 40 goal scorer.

I would definitely expect a bounce back year from Cozens.

This part should be more of a massive concern than a penciled in assumption. With the injury history he's had so far, he very well may be a player that is never reliably healthy. I absolutely don't wish it on him, but repeated leg injuries on a young player are never good. Peterka has actually been available, and as a result is way ahead of Quinn so far.

[PASabreFan]

9 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Even Detroit pizza?

What would you know about that?

[Doohickie]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

What would you know about that?

Not a thing, sir.

 

Not a thing.

[...]

My own internal spreadsheet on Quinn and Peterka has been:

I expected Quinn to be a 30 and greater goal scorer consistently once he matures and gets rolling. Hopefully he grows out of having injuries like a lot players seem to do, but I have to agree with @Thorny that for this year, at least, fans need to temper expectations. I think if we get 2023-2024 Peterka-like production out of him this coming season that would be just ducky.

He is a wildcard, though, since we've not had a full season to take in his NHL game. There are variations on what to expect regarding physicality, his two-way game, and, obviously, what he can do above the blue line, which I think are all valid. I hate to be so cautious over the team right now because it takes away from Quinn's storyline.

For Peterka, I suspect he's already hit his scoring plateau; where he should consistently deliver ~30 goals a year. I expect his assists to increase significantly - I'm tempted to say double, but probably not this coming season, especially since we all know for assists you need finishers.  

[GoPuckYourself]

2 hours ago, Cityo'Rasmii said:

can you play defense??

No I almost died on rollerblades…. Oh Nevermind. 

[shrader]

@..., Quinn played 75 games in 2022-23. So we have seen a full season. 

[LGR4GM]

27.06g and 30.34a would be Jack Quinn's per 82 game pace if he maintained his scoring rates from last year. 

[...]

18 minutes ago, shrader said:

@..., Quinn played 75 games in 2022-23. So we have seen a full season. 

Right, the Kid Line. I should have qualified that in some way because to me it's like Benson - we saw a full season of him last season but I still don't think we have a sense of what his mature game will be. We got a taste of each's various skills and what they may want to do, but , of course, it'll take time to develop. Peterka is a good example where last season we got a better view of what his mature game is likely to be.

Edited July 9 by ...

[That Aud Smell]

28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

27.06g and 30.34a would be Jack Quinn's per 82 game pace if he maintained his scoring rates from last year. 

Man I don't hate that -- especially if we were to envision a modestly (albeit somewhat unevenly) rising line as it arcs over two separate X axises (axes?) -- the X axis being time (seasons) and Y being goals or assists.

Edited July 9 by That Aud Smell

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

27.06g and 30.34a would be Jack Quinn's per 82 game pace if he maintained his scoring rates from last year. 

Personally have said the expectation for a healthy Quinn is 35 goals.  But also didn't bump Peterka over his 28 from last year, nor Tuch over his injury riddled 22.  If Quinn "only" has 27 or 28, those 2 alone could make up that "lost" production.  

Could see them using him, in the bumper slot on PP1 as should Thompson drift away from his 1 timer spot Quinn could drift there.  With Peterka at the other side & Dahlin at the top, they could have a good shooter all over the ice.  Would have Tuch down low for his size on screens & his forecheck on loose pucks that miss the net & rebounds.  (Which still leaves Cozens, Benson, Power, & Byram as a core for the 2nd PP.  And that's without any addition potential trade for a 2W.)

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Personally have said the expectation for a healthy Quinn is 35 goals.  But also didn't bump Peterka over his 28 from last year, nor Tuch over his injury riddled 22.  If Quinn "only" has 27 or 28, those 2 alone could make up that "lost" production.  

Could see them using him, in the bumper slot on PP1 as should Thompson drift away from his 1 timer spot Quinn could drift there.  With Peterka at the other side & Dahlin at the top, they could have a good shooter all over the ice.  Would have Tuch down low for his size on screens & his forecheck on loose pucks that miss the net & rebounds.  (Which still leaves Cozens, Benson, Power, & Byram as a core for the 2nd PP.  And that's without any addition potential trade for a 2W.)

I think we're going to see a big switch in how they line up and how they operate on the PP.

I'm curious to see how much Appert leans into the success he had with Quinn and Peterka in the AHL.

I'm curious to see how the promised emphasis on players moving around more manifests itself on the ice.

I wonder if Tuch's inability to get to the net for rebounds and screens can be changed by coaching, or if it costs him a spot on PP1.

I wonder if Thompson can acquire a curve ball to go with his heater and create a change-up that will prevent team's from neutralizing his 1-timer?

I wonder who replaces Skinner down low? Can that person be trusted to make plays out of the corner in a way Skinner could not?

I wonder if the presence of the above player will mean we will see Dahlin creeping in from the point more?

I wonder if or how they will utilize Byram, who is really good at the above, can dish and move as good as any point man in the NHL, and scores more goals from that type of play than pretty much any d-man?

I wonder if there is a bumper on the roster?

So many questions.

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think we're going to see a big switch in how they line up and how they operate on the PP.  How they line up, maybe.  How they operate - definitely.

I'm curious to see how much Appert leans into the success he had with Quinn and Peterka in the AHL.  Considering he's the X & O guy there now, expecting a lot of lean in.

I'm curious to see how the promised emphasis on players moving around more manifests itself on the ice.  Likewise.

I wonder if Tuch's inability to get to the net for rebounds and screens can be changed by coaching, or if it costs him a spot on PP1.  Well he was usually the bumper & Ellis had them ALL far from the net when the puck was at the point, expect a lot of that was playing as coached.Skinner was low until Benson replaced him.  And Benson was the 1 guy that stayed near the net regardless of where the puck was.  Expect they try Tuch there at 1st w/ Benson getting the next crack.  (And that's assuming Zegras isn't a Sabre.  If he is, Alex becomes the 5th guy on unit 2.)

I wonder if Thompson can acquire a curve ball to go with his heater and create a change-up that will prevent team's from neutralizing his 1-timer?  Good Q.  We can hope.

I wonder who replaces Skinner down low? Can that person be trusted to make plays out of the corner in a way Skinner could not?  See further above.

I wonder if the presence of the above player will mean we will see Dahlin creeping in from the point more?  Probably, as keeping a tighter setup leads to quicker passes.  Also expecting a fair amount of working the puck below the goal line to force defenders to lose track of the puck or shooters - their choice of which poison to swallow.

I wonder if or how they will utilize Byram, who is really good at the above, can dish and move as good as any point man in the NHL, and scores more goals from that type of play than pretty much any d-man?  Expecting he runs the 2nd unit w/ Power so they aren't caught w/ 4Fs after a PP ends.  But we shall see.

I wonder if there is a bumper on the roster?  Not a true bumper, but Quinn should be good there.  Expect Cozens in the role on PP2 (but have never liked him there) & could see Benson getting a chance there or as the netfront guy if they can't find someone else for either role.  Would've been nice to see Mittelstadt in that role with a non-moronic system; but alas, it wasn't meant to be.

So many questions.

 

Edited July 9 by Taro T

[Big Guava]

14 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

This part should be more of a massive concern than a penciled in assumption. With the injury history he's had so far, he very well may be a player that is never reliably healthy. I absolutely don't wish it on him, but repeated leg injuries on a young player are never good. Peterka has actually been available, and as a result is way ahead of Quinn so far.

2 freak injuries don't really warrant an injury concern for me. Especially when it wasn't something that happened throughout his career growing up.

Anymore than having someone nail you from behind while stopped at a red light twice within a year makes you accident prone.

Edited July 9 by Big Guava

[Doohickie]

43 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm curious to see how much Appert leans into the success he had with Quinn and Peterka in the AHL.

...with Krebs at center????

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

One of the reasons I’ve come around on a Zegras trade is because I see him as an excellent solution to the PP problem of lacking a playmaker down low.

Plugging him in where Skinner was could make a world of difference.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

One of the reasons I’ve come around on a Zegras trade is because I see him as an excellent solution to the PP problem of lacking a playmaker down low.

Plugging him in where Skinner was could make a world of difference.

Likewise.

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

...with Krebs at center????

I don’t have a strong memory of Peyton on that PP. He may have been one of the down low guys, but I remember him more as an even-strength centre on that team: playing fast and distributing.

Quinn and Peterka played pitch-and-catch and blasted away from opposite half-walls on the PP and really dominated, with I think Murray clogging the net? Laaksonen was the point man.

I tend to think Peyton was on the other unit.

Edited July 9 by dudacek

[Doohickie]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t have a strong memory of Peyton on that PP. He may have been one of the down low guys, but I remember him more as an even-strength centre on that team: playing fast and distributing.

Quinn and Peterka played pitch-and-catch and blasted away from opposite half-walls on the PP and really dominated, with I think Murray clogging the net? Laaksonen was the point man.

I tend to think Peyton was on the other unit.

Krebs, iirc, was the center for Quin/JJP in Roc.

Although maybe not on the PP

Edited July 9 by Doohickie