Trade: C Ryan McLeod - Oilers for Matt Savoie

[LGR4GM]

52 minutes ago, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

I've read some analysis which states that the Sabres have too many of the same type of small skilled players who all fit the same mold and therefore Savoie was expendable. Well my question is: "Who in hell drafted all these players?"

Who in the Sabres hierarchy kept pounding the table to draft all these undersized prospects? Jerry Forton? Kevyn Adams? The scouts? Somebody needs to be accountable for this strategic error in drafting. You can't trade away a top prospect and then say we have too many similar players so the top prospect is expendable.

It reminds me of the story of the boy who kills both his parents and then asks the court for leniency because he is an orphan. This is what the Sabres brass is saying. We screwed up drafting and now we are admitting it. Is this how an organization builds a Stanley Cup winner? No.

Kevyn Adams should fire the guy who drafted Savoie and fire the guy who traded him at a bargain price.

 

Zach Benson made Matt Savoie expendable. Do you want to fire the person who wanted Zach Benson?

Also, I think anyone adding Helenius into a pool with Savoie calling them the same is blind.  Helenius is bigger for 1 but more importantly, does not play hockey the same way Savoie does. They are different.

Edited July 6 by LGR4GM

[tom webster]

51 minutes ago, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

I've read some analysis which states that the Sabres have too many of the same type of small skilled players who all fit the same mold and therefore Savoie was expendable. Well my question is: "Who in hell drafted all these players?"

Who in the Sabres hierarchy kept pounding the table to draft all these undersized prospects? Jerry Forton? Kevyn Adams? The scouts? Somebody needs to be accountable for this strategic error in drafting. You can't trade away a top prospect and then say we have too many similar players so the top prospect is expendable.

It reminds me of the story of the boy who kills both his parents and then asks the court for leniency because he is an orphan. This is what the Sabres brass is saying. We screwed up drafting and now we are admitting it. Is this how an organization builds a Stanley Cup winner? No.

Kevyn Adams should fire the guy who drafted Savoie and fire the guy who traded him at a bargain price.

 

Guess what, the easiest players to trade are the best players. If you draft the best player available regardless of size, you acquire more players other teams want thus accumulating assets needed to make your team better. It’s really not a novel concept.

[LGR4GM]

They just don't play hockey the same.

Savoie

 

Helenius 

 

 

 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

I've read some analysis which states that the Sabres have too many of the same type of small skilled players who all fit the same mold and therefore Savoie was expendable. Well my question is: "Who in hell drafted all these players?"

Who in the Sabres hierarchy kept pounding the table to draft all these undersized prospects? Jerry Forton? Kevyn Adams? The scouts? Somebody needs to be accountable for this strategic error in drafting. You can't trade away a top prospect and then say we have too many similar players so the top prospect is expendable.

It reminds me of the story of the boy who kills both his parents and then asks the court for leniency because he is an orphan. This is what the Sabres brass is saying. We screwed up drafting and now we are admitting it. Is this how an organization builds a Stanley Cup winner? No.

Kevyn Adams should fire the guy who drafted Savoie and fire the guy who traded him at a bargain price.

 

Meh.  Savoie turned into our 3C. If he flamed out and we got no value out of him I’d be bummed, but we got a good rostered player out of that pick.  I think that’s value.  

[Carmel Corn]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They just don't play hockey the same.

Savoie

 

Helenius 

 

 

 

Thanks….one thing I cannot figure out yet is whether one is better than the other at offensive zone entries or not.  Something I’d like to see the Sabres get better at is controlling the puck crossing the blue line….hoping the Helenius has that ability.

[Broken Ankles]

What is the best guess of how the trade was formed?  The Sabres are kicking tires for third line centers across the league and Edmonton says they need Savoie for McLeod.  Adam’s says no and looks elsewhere, and makes his selection at the draft.  After July 1st Edmonton signs Arvidsson, Skinner, Henrique and others so the Oilers were over the cap and needed to shed salary.  At that point, doesn’t Adams have leverage?  Wouldn’t the original asking price drop?  So is the prospect Tullio what Adams wanted back as a sweetener?  Or did he try to offer less (Rosen) straight up and it was denied.  Then Adams knowing without a legit 3C (from Ruff and others here at SS) that he has to make a deal, so the prospect was all he could obtain to offset the difference between Rosen and Savoie.  Or do I have it all wrong? 

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Thanks….one thing I cannot figure out yet is whether one is better than the other at offensive zone entries or not.  Something I’d like to see the Sabres get better at is controlling the puck crossing the blue line….hoping the Helenius has that ability.

Hard to tell because of the difference in where they played. Savoie has more dynamic skating with at the moment, a better shot. I think I prefer Helenius in terms of passing and his off puck game. I think on a rush, you want Savoie but on a controlled breakout you want Helenius. Also if the entry fails, I want Helenius because I have faith in his ability to get the puck back.

In a cycle game, it's hard because Helenius protects better but Savoie's skating gives him more options again Helenius isn't a bad skater, Savoie is just very dynamic. That said, Helenius to my eye had more creativity in his passing. 

I like Savoie ftr. He's fun to watch and his shot is nice. It's hard though because we're comparing a 20yr old player in a Jr. League to an 17yr old player in a men's league. Savoie has 2 full years extra dev and plays somewhere with more space and time. Helenius isn't playing in NA so figuring out how he translates and where he needs to get better (it's pace) is still something to consider. 

 

Edited July 6 by LGR4GM

[shrader]

8 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

What is the best guess of how the trade was formed?  The Sabres are kicking tires for third line centers across the league and Edmonton says they need Savoie for McLeod.  Adam’s says no and looks elsewhere, and makes his selection at the draft.  After July 1st Edmonton signs Arvidsson, Skinner, Henrique and others so the Oilers were over the cap and needed to shed salary.  At that point, doesn’t Adams have leverage?  Wouldn’t the original asking price drop?  So is the prospect Tullio what Adams wanted back as a sweetener?  Or did he try to offer less (Rosen) straight up and it was denied.  Then Adams knowing without a legit 3C (from Ruff and others here at SS) that he has to make a deal, so the prospect was all he could obtain to offset the difference between Rosen and Savoie.  Or do I have it all wrong? 

Did you ever read those choose your own adventure books as a kid?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

18 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

For those who are fans of the Scottish name: This new centre calls to mind the chorus from a Scottish version of a famous Rolling Stones song: “Hey, McLeod, get offa mah ewe!”

(lol - bestiality joke.)

Are you sure about that ??

Maybe he's of Irish heritage ??

His brother is / was (?????) playing in Belfast.

[Crusader1969]

3 hours ago, French Collection said:

No ah think he was in Rochestur to finish the season.

Sure , but I could say the same about Savoie.   Finished the season a year ago and had a short stint this past year. 
 

[Brawndo]

8 minutes ago, shrader said:

Did you ever read those choose your own adventure books as a kid?

Those were pretty good 

[dudacek]

11 hours ago, TRIP65 said:

We have Lafferty as 4th Center.

Kulich is a better idea then Krebs. Krebs can't play Wing. Even Appert said Rousek filled in Great as Center when guys went down. Unless Krebs has done something different in offseason, looks to me like he will be gone. Don't expect to get much for him either.

I was surprised in Lindy’s most recent presser when he mentioned Peyton on the wing; that seemed like a failed experiment and they’d invested a lot of ice developing him as 2-way centre.

And then this trade happened.

I like him better than a lot of you do, but he has to be wondering if he has a fit and a future here.

2 hours ago, Jorcus said:

I am not against the trade of Savoie. The Sabres must have felt he was not going to help us this year. I worry about McCloud's lake of production so far in the NHL. It's Obvious he was not getting top  line minutes with the Oilers. This is certainly a projection pick up where it's possible his numbers can jump with different usage. I hope so because you really need better production out that center position. Well at least the team is going to look different. 

I will say this for the Oilers they love adding people who can score goals.

 

I think people have skewed view on how many points most 3Cs actually produce around the league. 30 points is on the low end but it is in the window.

1 hour ago, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

I've read some analysis which states that the Sabres have too many of the same type of small skilled players who all fit the same mold and therefore Savoie was expendable. Well my question is: "Who in hell drafted all these players?"

Who in the Sabres hierarchy kept pounding the table to draft all these undersized prospects? Jerry Forton? Kevyn Adams? The scouts? Somebody needs to be accountable for this strategic error in drafting. You can't trade away a top prospect and then say we have too many similar players so the top prospect is expendable.

It reminds me of the story of the boy who kills both his parents and then asks the court for leniency because he is an orphan. This is what the Sabres brass is saying. We screwed up drafting and now we are admitting it. Is this how an organization builds a Stanley Cup winner? No.

Kevyn Adams should fire the guy who drafted Savoie and fire the guy who traded him at a bargain price.

 

 

Are you saying the only reason we traded Savoie was because we have no role for him?

Isnt it more accurate to say we traded him because  that was the price required to improve the team?

And because we drafted him, we were able to pay that price?

Im just not sure where the fireable offence is here: trading a prospect automatically means the pick was bad?

[French Collection]

6 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Sure , but I could say the same about Savoie.   Finished the season a year ago and had a short stint this past year. 
 

Right.

I was just trying to use Östlund’s first name in a funny way, because someone called him Ostland. Also why I put the u in Rochester.

[Crusader1969]

Just now, French Collection said:

Right.

I was just trying to use Östlund’s first name in a funny way, because someone called him Ostland. Also why I put the u in Rochester.

lol.  Sorry went over my head 🙂

[jad1]

37 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

What is the best guess of how the trade was formed?  The Sabres are kicking tires for third line centers across the league and Edmonton says they need Savoie for McLeod.  Adam’s says no and looks elsewhere, and makes his selection at the draft.  After July 1st Edmonton signs Arvidsson, Skinner, Henrique and others so the Oilers were over the cap and needed to shed salary.  At that point, doesn’t Adams have leverage?  Wouldn’t the original asking price drop?  So is the prospect Tullio what Adams wanted back as a sweetener?  Or did he try to offer less (Rosen) straight up and it was denied.  Then Adams knowing without a legit 3C (from Ruff and others here at SS) that he has to make a deal, so the prospect was all he could obtain to offset the difference between Rosen and Savoie.  Or do I have it all wrong? 

Also, there's rumors that the Sabres are/were interested in Ehlers.  Did Adams offer Savoie to the Jets?  Would the Jets accept a trade of Savoie for Ehlers?  

If the Jets did reject that deal, then maybe Adams figured he couldn't make a deal involving a top six player for Savoie work, and set his sites on finding a 3C.

Edited July 6 by jad1

[Jorcus]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

I think people have skewed view on how many points most 3Cs actually produce around the league. 30 points is on the low end but it is in the window.

 

It's fine if your on the Oilers but the Sabres in general had such bad production out of the centers last season that they all have to come up to be competitive. I think McCloud will produce more just by not being the 4th center on the team. At least I hope so. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

38 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

What is the best guess of how the trade was formed?  The Sabres are kicking tires for third line centers across the league and Edmonton says they need Savoie for McLeod.  Adam’s says no and looks elsewhere, and makes his selection at the draft.  After July 1st Edmonton signs Arvidsson, Skinner, Henrique and others so the Oilers were over the cap and needed to shed salary.  At that point, doesn’t Adams have leverage?  Wouldn’t the original asking price drop?  So is the prospect Tullio what Adams wanted back as a sweetener?  Or did he try to offer less (Rosen) straight up and it was denied.  Then Adams knowing without a legit 3C (from Ruff and others here at SS) that he has to make a deal, so the prospect was all he could obtain to offset the difference between Rosen and Savoie.  Or do I have it all wrong? 

My guess is the conversations were recent. Once Edm signed Henrique and went over the cap, Kevyn called Edm and asked for McLeod.  He probably offered Rosen.  Edm said no and asked for Savoie.  Kevyn said ok, but I need something else.  If he had slated Savoie to start in Rochester, getting a young player with decent AHL results but young enough to potentially have upside makes sense.

I don’t think this is an overpay. We saw how few centers changed teams this off-season by trade. There is value in youth, with experience, and cost control, especially when the player has some very marketable skills like speed and PK ability.  

 

 

[Brawndo]

Just now, jad1 said:

Also, there's rumors that the Sabres are/were interested in Ehlers.  Did Adams off Savoie to the Jets?  Would the Jets accept a trade of Savoie for Ehlers?  

If the Jets did reject that deal, then maybe Adams figured he couldn't make a deal involving a top six player for Savoie work, and set his sites on finding a 3C.

Tom Webster reported the Jets rumored asking price was 14oa, two prospects and an unprotected 2025 1st. 

That’s way to high of a price 

 

[Crusader1969]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Tom Webster reported the Jets rumored asking price was 14oa, two prospects and an unprotected 2025 1st. 

That’s way to high of a price 

 

100%. 
seeing Kulich and Östlund for Ehlers in some rumour made me sick to my stomach.    

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Meh.  Savoie turned into our 3C. If he flamed out and we got no value out of him I’d be bummed, but we got a good rostered player out of that pick.  I think that’s value.  

To put it another way:  If he had developed more quickly and had become our 3C himself, we'd be happy.  Either way, the pick turned into our 3C (and another prospect to boot).  I'm happy.

[Doohickie]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Are you saying the only reason we traded Savoie was because we have no role for him?

Isnt it more accurate to say we traded him because  that was the price required to improve the team?

And because we drafted him, we were able to pay that price?

Im just not sure where the fireable offence is here: trading a prospect automatically means the pick was bad?

You could say having a wealth of prospects that are similar is a good thing:  Trading Savoie had very little impact on our organizational depth at forward.

26 minutes ago, French Collection said:

someone called him Ostland.

I think that was me but I don't care.  I'm rockin' a summer cold and it sucks.

[Brawndo]

Something else that should not be discounted.

With Byram and McLeod they have two players well within the age range of the Sabres Core who have Stanley Cup Final experience. 
 

That should be beneficial to this team 

[French Collection]

5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I think that was me but I don't care.  I'm rockin' a summer cold and it sucks.

All good, glad to see you sporting the chicken hat again. Your days on the dark side are done, I hope.

[JohnC]

40 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Those were pretty good 

I read (looked at) at what I considered to be an adventure book. It had a lot of naked pictures with busty girls demonstrating their flexibility. I was told that I was a naughty boy. I ended up being severely disciplined. It was well worth the punishment. 😀

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, Carmel Corn said:

Thanks….one thing I cannot figure out yet is whether one is better than the other at offensive zone entries or not.  Something I’d like to see the Sabres get better at is controlling the puck crossing the blue line….hoping the Helenius has that ability.

You know who is good at zone entries…McLeod.