The Sabres Prospect Pool 2024 Edition

[dudacek]

Not being snarky, I wonder how often Pronman sees these guys?

He rates literally hundreds of them on his own.

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not being snarky, I wonder how often Pronman sees these guys?

He rates literally hundreds of them on his own.

Couple times a year. Probably at Helinka, WJC18, WJC20, and Worlds

[Flashsabre]

20 hours ago, nfreeman said:

FWIW, Corey Pronman of the Athletic has ranked the Sabres' prospect pool at #11 in the NHL (down from #3 last year):  linkage

"Prospects" in these rankings include players who are 22 or younger on 9/15/24 -- so guys like Quinn and Power are included.

Pronman's ranking of the Sabres' prospects:

1.  Power

2. Quinn

3. JJP

4. Helenius

5. Benson

6. Kulich

7. Östlund

8. Wahlberg

9. Kleber

10. Levi

11. Strbak

12. Komarov

This is a take. Benson 5, Levi 10. 
 

Novikov get no love. If Pronman thinks there are 10 teams with better prospect depth than that than I really don’t know what to tell him.

[Archie Lee]

30 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

This is a take. Benson 5, Levi 10. 
 

Novikov get no love. If Pronman thinks there are 10 teams with better prospect depth than that than I really don’t know what to tell him.

The hockey world in general, is not as high on Benson and Levi as we are. 

I see the work of prospect writers like Pronman and Wheeler as jumping off points for discussions on prospects. Neither pretends to be a know-it-all. They rely on a combination of what they watch themselves and what they are advised by the network of scouts they have connections with. No individual person can have a truly exhaustive knowledge of all top prospects. Pronman is probably not as well informed on Sabre prospects as some fans on this message board are, but he is likely more well informed on how the hockey world views our prospects relative to prospects on other teams.

[Porous Five Hole]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

The hockey world in general, is not as high on Benson and Levi as we are. 

I see the work of prospect writers like Pronman and Wheeler as jumping off points for discussions on prospects. Neither pretends to be a know-it-all. They rely on a combination of what they watch themselves and what they are advised by the network of scouts they have connections with. No individual person can have a truly exhaustive knowledge of all top prospects. Pronman is probably not as well informed on Sabre prospects as some fans on this message board are, but he is likely more well informed on how the hockey world views our prospects relative to prospects on other teams.

If folks aren’t high on Levi, it is because they're not paying attention.  Draft pedigree should not be a litmus test any longer.  
 

I’m not here to advocate that he is fully formed and goalies are weird, but he’s already too good to play in the AHL.  He posted a ridiculous .927 in Rochester last year with a 2.42 GAA. He was .923 in the playoffs and was the best player on the team against Syr.

Compare that to the other Amerks goalies last season for context. Or compare it to UPL’s age 21 season. 

Only one AHL goalie had a better save percentage and he plays for the back to back Calder Cup champs (clearly a far superior team).

He likely will play in ROC so he can continue to get as many starts as possible —and he’s not ready to be a #1 in the NHL.  

No matter how one defines prospect, people are sleeping on Devon. Maybe it just comes down to goalies being weird.

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

The hockey world in general, is not as high on Benson and Levi as we are. 

I see the work of prospect writers like Pronman and Wheeler as jumping off points for discussions on prospects. Neither pretends to be a know-it-all. They rely on a combination of what they watch themselves and what they are advised by the network of scouts they have connections with. No individual person can have a truly exhaustive knowledge of all top prospects. Pronman is probably not as well informed on Sabre prospects as some fans on this message board are, but he is likely more well informed on how the hockey world views our prospects relative to prospects on other teams.

Accurate, and it’s not just B/c they “aren’t paying attention” either: there is an element of that, we “see” more, but we are also more biased by nature: all fans feel this way about their prospects 

We talk about our system strength but there’s no way we are all digging into the nitty gritty upside of every team’s 6th best prospect etc. We’ll tout where there’s more familiarity 

Edited August 29 by Thorny

[DarthEbriate]

Pronman just ranked the Sabres top 5 by height. 6-6, 6-1, 6-0, 5-11, 5-10. Power, Quinn, Peterka, Helenius, Benson. Easy peasy.

[Two or less]

On 8/28/2024 at 1:49 PM, nfreeman said:

FWIW, Corey Pronman of the Athletic has ranked the Sabres' prospect pool at #11 in the NHL (down from #3 last year):  linkage

"Prospects" in these rankings include players who are 22 or younger on 9/15/24 -- so guys like Quinn and Power are included.

Pronman's ranking of the Sabres' prospects:

1.  Power

2. Quinn

3. JJP

4. Helenius

5. Benson

6. Kulich

7. Östlund

8. Wahlberg

9. Kleber

10. Levi

11. Strbak

12. Komarov

 

I was reading Eliteprospects "rinkside" and i thought it was interesting they have Ryerson Leenders listed as the 6th best Sabres prospect. They don't have any of the current NHLers eligible though.

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 8/25/2024 at 10:51 AM, Taro T said:

EDIT: Ah, see where it appears that GA is equating them.  Yeah, no, not so much.  Nevermind.

What I'm saying is that an 18 year old putting up .7 pts a game in Liiga is more impressive than a 20 year old putting up .6 in the SHL even if the SHL is a better league (which I agree with).

As to Pronman, he hates small players and really hates small goalies (Levi) and small forwards who aren't lightning fast (Benson).  

Some articles I read about Levi this summer talk about how some of his advanced stats in the NHL were actually better than UPL's.  They also talked about his unprecedented numbers at every level he's played at pre-NHL.

Here is the closest comparison I could find to Levi in college and the AHL.  Both guys numbers are significantly better than Oettinger or Woll.

1) Hellebuyck  

College - 53 games GAA 1.58 save %.946

AHL - 88 games GAA 2.55 save % .921

2) Levi

College - 66 games GAA 1.89  save%.942

AHL - 26 games GAA 2.42 save% .927

[Ctaeth]

Apparently viljami marjala won liiga rookie of the year.  I'm not sure if that has already been posted but i don't remember seeing it. 

Also looks like he has been lighting it up in the preseason, 5 points in 3 games.  Kris Baker referred to him as their 1c, so maybe more opportunity incoming this year.  Might lead to a surprisingly big year for him

https://x.com/SabresProspects/status/1824841344881176868?t=Dt5_6H-4x55LmgOdwt-OoA&s=19

[LGR4GM]

I trust EPs take on Benson far more than Pronman. 

As for Helenius, I actually think there's a chance he's better on NA ice after an adjustment period. His issue at first will be pace, Liiga is slower in how they attack. 

Östlund is very interesting because his biggest issue is weight/ strength so his camp weigh is will be watched. 

Novikov needs better feet and he's got a real chance of being a shutdown NHL defender. 

As for Levi, my biggest issue is Pronman questions his skating which Biron has raved about. Idk what his ceiling is but he's got the potential to be Saros. I hope he sees about 35 or so AHL games and about 25 NHL games this year. Next year they can do a 48/34 split or so between upl and Levi. 

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What I'm saying is that an 18 year old putting up .7 pts a game in Liiga is more impressive than a 20 year old putting up .6 in the SHL even if the SHL is a better league (which I agree with).

As to Pronman, he hates small players and really hates small goalies (Levi) and small forwards who aren't lightning fast (Benson).  

Some articles I read about Levi this summer talk about how some of his advanced stats in the NHL were actually better than UPL's.  They also talked about his unprecedented numbers at every level he's played at pre-NHL.

Here is the closest comparison I could find to Levi in college and the AHL.  Both guys numbers are significantly better than Oettinger or Woll.

1) Hellebuyck  

College - 53 games GAA 1.58 save %.946

AHL - 88 games GAA 2.55 save % .921

2) Levi

College - 66 games GAA 1.89  save%.942

AHL - 26 games GAA 2.42 save% .927

WTF does any of the Levi stuff have to do with the relative strength of the SHL & Liiga?

Btw, still say Levi's ceiling is Saros, so am REALLY unsure why you chose this paticular poster to lecture on the merits of Levi.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

WTF does any of the Levi stuff have to do with the relative strength of the SHL & Liiga?

Btw, still say Levi's ceiling is Saros, so am REALLY unsure why you chose this paticular poster to lecture on the merits of Levi.

It is a comparison of Östlund v. Helenius' seasons

[Taro T]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

It is a comparison of Östlund v. Helenius' seasons

NOT Pronman's article.  NOT YOUR posts.  GA's post was responding to one which was referring to a post that was ONLY about the relative merits of the SHL & Liiga. 

Wtf does Levi have to do with ANY of the relative merits of the 2 leagues?  (Spoiler alert, he doesn't.)

[dudacek]

Pronman appears to have a tendency to scout from a checklist.

What I mean is that he has his view of what an ideal NHL player looks like and should be able to do, and he subtracts points from prospects based on what they lack from that archetype.

I don’t think it’s a surprise that Dylan Cozens is (or was) his favourite Sabres prospect because that archetype would be Eric Lindros or Mark Messier.

[LGR4GM]

EP puts Buffalo at #16 for prospect pools but they graduated out Benson and Levi. Owen Power is also not listed because they are only looking at prospects and not what pronman did which is U23. 

https://eprinkside.com/2024/08/28/ep-rinkside-2024-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-16-ranked-buffalo-sabres

1. Helenius
2. Kulich
3. Östlund
4. Rosen
5. Kleber
6. Leenders (Levi is not eligible for this list BTW)
7. Ziemer
8. McCarthy
9. Komarov
10. Neuchev
11. Strbak
12. Osburn
13. Wahlberg
14. Novikov
15. Ratzlaff
16. Marjala
17. Leinonen (I am shocked. Shocked! Well not that shocked)
18. Poltapov

Edited August 30 by LGR4GM

[GASabresIUFAN]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

NOT Pronman's article.  NOT YOUR posts.  GA's post was responding to one which was referring to a post that was ONLY about the relative merits of the SHL & Liiga. 

Wtf does Levi have to do with ANY of the relative merits of the 2 leagues?  (Spoiler alert, he doesn'

 

40 minutes ago, Taro T said:

WTF does any of the Levi stuff have to do with the relative strength of the SHL & Liiga?

Btw, still say Levi's ceiling is Saros, so am REALLY unsure why you chose this paticular poster to lecture on the merits of Levi.

I was responding to your post and to Pronman’s disrespect for Levi —“As to Pronman”

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

I was responding to your post and to Pronman’s disrespect for Levi —“As to Pronman”

Pronman doesn't believe in small players at any position. It is why Benson will be downgraded by him forever and why Levi will too. Pronman would rank a 6'5" talentless booger that had below average skating but could skate fast in a straight line higher than any sub 6' forward with elite skills but average skating. He's so size bias it is getting ridiculous. 

[LGR4GM]

"Skates good for his size" = "Straight line fast and doesn't trip over their own feet" 

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As to Pronman, he hates small players and really hates small goalies (Levi) and small forwards who aren't lightning fast (Benson).  

 

29 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Pronman doesn't believe in small players at any position. It is why Benson will be downgraded by him forever and why Levi will too. Pronman would rank a 6'5" talentless booger that had below average skating but could skate fast in a straight line higher than any sub 6' forward with elite skills but average skating. He's so size bias it is getting ridiculous. 

Agree!

[Taro T]

38 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

I was responding to your post and to Pronman’s disrespect for Levi —“As to Pronman”

In fewer words, he doesn't.

[Porous Five Hole]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

EP puts Buffalo at #16 for prospect pools but they graduated out Benson and Levi. Owen Power is also not listed because they are only looking at prospects and not what pronman did which is U23. 

https://eprinkside.com/2024/08/28/ep-rinkside-2024-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-16-ranked-buffalo-sabres

1. Helenius
2. Kulich
3. Östlund
4. Rosen
5. Kleber
6. Leenders (Levi is not eligible for this list BTW)
7. Ziemer
8. McCarthy
9. Komarov
10. Neuchev
11. Strbak
12. Osburn
13. Wahlberg
14. Novikov
15. Ratzlaff
16. Marjala
17. Leinonen (I am shocked. Shocked! Well not that shocked)
18. Poltapov

How do you feel about the slotting of Wahlberg at 13? Seems low to me.  

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

How do you feel about the slotting of Wahlberg at 13? Seems low to me.  

I haven't honestly seen enough of Wahlberg. I think he has been a bit overhyped.

Quote

Give Anton Wahlberg a bit of runway with the puck, and he will accelerate through, run wide of defenders, and cut to the net. His 6-foot-3 frame and above-average handling skills — especially for a player his size —  enable him to protect the puck in flight easily. Opponents just can’t access the puck. 

These kinds of rushes seldom happen at the professional level, however. There, agility and two-step acceleration matter more than straight speed. These two facets of Wahlberg’s skating need more work. That’s partly why he rarely scored this season in the SHL, despite receiving a lot of ice time compared to most prospects of his age. 

To make a consistent impact, he will have to lean on his physicality even more often. If he can start generating more scoring chances from the walls by passing or carrying the puck from there to the middle, he will find a role in the Sabres lineup. https://eprinkside.com/2024/08/28/ep-rinkside-2024-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-16-ranked-buffalo-sabres

 

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

How do you feel about the slotting of Wahlberg at 13? Seems low to me.  

He is an absolute horse who has one of the thickest necks I have seen. Really has room to fill out even more.  At his best he can become an impact power forward that other team covet. Go to the dirty area and strong net front presence. Still a teenager so has runway to develop.

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

EP puts Buffalo at #16 for prospect pools but they graduated out Benson and Levi. Owen Power is also not listed because they are only looking at prospects and not what pronman did which is U23. 

https://eprinkside.com/2024/08/28/ep-rinkside-2024-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-16-ranked-buffalo-sabres

1. Helenius
2. Kulich
3. Östlund
4. Rosen
5. Kleber
6. Leenders (Levi is not eligible for this list BTW)
7. Ziemer
8. McCarthy
9. Komarov
10. Neuchev
11. Strbak
12. Osburn
13. Wahlberg
14. Novikov
15. Ratzlaff
16. Marjala
17. Leinonen (I am shocked. Shocked! Well not that shocked)
18. Poltapov

Not a single Canadian skater in the top 18, kinda wild

also, I’m starting to not recognize some of these names. What is happening to me, I’m scared..