The Sabres Prospect Pool 2024 Edition

[ska-T Palmtown]

I think the willful exclusion from consideration that any number of these prospects may have actually SHRUNK since the last time they were measured due to the crushing weight of Sabrespace expectations on their shoulders to not only be erroneous, but downright disingenuous!!! <angry noises!> 

[dudacek]

Adam Mair gave a quick update on Poltapov at development camp.

Said he communicates with him regularly through Zoom and WhatsApp and sends him clips with feedback about his game.

Characterized him as gritty bull of a forechecker with excellent strength and superior puck protection. Said he’s a guy who can play up and down the lineup: enough talent to play with skill guys and enough grit to play further down the lineup. Won a KHL championship as a 20-year-old in a bottom six role.

Sounds like the type of player people say we don’t draft. Didn’t sound like a guy they’ve given up on at all.

No update on when he’s coming over, but last I heard he was under contract there until the end of this season.

[dudacek]

I think some people on here forget that NHL teams draft 18-year-olds with a wide range of physical maturity levels, and NHLers aren’t typically fully formed until they are about 25.

On average, NHL players arrive on the scene 3-5 years after being picked and take about 3 more years after arriving to become what they will be. It is unusual for anyone picked outside the top 10 to become an NHL regular 3 years after being picked.

Six players from the 2021 first round played the entire season in the NHL last year.

Edited July 3 by dudacek

[B-U-F-F-A-L-O]

14 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Now that I dealt with that let us talk about this. 

This is complete and utter bullhockey. It is patently false. Let's start with Zach Benson, he is only going to get harder and harder to play against. He won more puck battles than he lost last year. He is a pain in the ass already to play against. Dogged, smart with his body, keeps his feet moving, smart beyond his years. He is mini-marchand right now and I am most excited for him moving forward. 

Helenius is not fun to play against at all. He is very much in the mold of Benson with less of the stick work that Benson has and I would say less manipulation than Benson. Helenius is very much a checking center who uses his smarts and body to get the puck and transition to offense. He is not simply a skill player and will be hard to play against. 

Brodie Ziemer is a pain in the ass to play against. He was primarily used to protect Hagens and get the puck to Eiserman along with Teddy Stiga. They were the hard checking forwards of the USDP. Brodie is very much in the mold of Benson or a Tuch where he uses his body and checks and is always motoring. 

That's 3 players in 2 drafts where they used a majority of their high end picks on defense that are hard to play against. Poltapov is that as well but idk if he will ever come to NA. I think Kulich has been learning how to apply that part of his game more but I will leave him out for now. Sabres have recognized the finesse v hard to play against deficiency in their pool and actually get credit for working on addressing it. Do they need to do more? yes. I will also add Jack Quinn in here even though everyone seems to view him as soft. He isn't, he uses his body quite often to leverage position and shield the puck. On the backcheck he uses the same skills to separate players from the back and move back up ice. If he adds the muscle and is healthy all year, he is going to be a pain to play against because he has all the skills with the puck and willingness to engage physically to protect or retrieve it. 

Buffalo doesn't just draft skilled forwards. They definitely have an abundance of them but they seemed to understand that which is good. If we switch to defense... holy hell do they love big physical defenders. Novikov, Komarov, Kleber, Strbak all make their livings being physical in their own ends. 

 

You’re right, I exaggerated, but I’m talking about tough guys that can check hard, get the puck and go the net. I gues they all, someday, will gain weight hopefully…I think about Rochester in the playoffs last year. How many prospects were on that team and we couldn’t even muster two goals… I truly hope benson can be a Marchand lite….I hope I’m dead wrong….and I do wish we had bigger, grittier players. More like the guys we just signed…Or better yet, a big gritty player with higher end skill….

Note: Most of my favorite Sabres of all-time are small. I always wished, for about 45 years, that we had some bigger, tougher guys…

please accept my apology, I’m just so sick of losing and feel we’re doing it yet again…. 

[bob_sauve28]

19 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

 
 

There just is not that player on the roster, particularly at the forward position, who plays a physical two-way game and has the size and strength to do so with great effectiveness and I believe that is a necessary ingredient to win the Cup. The Marchand’s of the world come around once every generation and even he can get roughed up due to his size.  have one, let alone two at the forward position, as yet. 

Tage? 

[Pimlach]

21 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You need to keep editing.  Zelenoov, Poltapov, and Nadeau are never playing in the NHL.  Kisakov and Miedema are unlikely as well. 

https://www.amerks.com/team

The Amerks list the following players

Rosen - 5-11 168

Östlund - 5-11 163

Rousek - 5-11 191

Kulich - 5-11 170

Kisakov - 5-10 160

Neuchev - 5-11 171

Nadaeu - 6-2 198

Wahlberg - 6-3 194

Write to Karmanos and tell him to fix this.  

[LGR4GM]

21 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That's fine, but that's not what the team shows.  

Idc. I know what's on the Rochester page is incorrect so I used correct information. Here's the Sabres training camp roster from 2023. Rosen is 6' and Kulich is 6'1" which is reflected everywhere else. 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-announce-2023-training-camp-roster-tage-thompson-zach-benson-jeff-skinner-devon-levi

 

[French Collection]

[Ctaeth]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

Adam Mair gave a quick update on Poltapov at development camp.

Said he communicates with him regularly through Zoom and WhatsApp and sends him clips with feedback about his game.

Characterized him as gritty bull of a forechecker with excellent strength and superior puck protection. Said he’s a guy who can play up and down the lineup: enough talent to play with skill guys and enough grit to play further down the lineup. Won a KHL championship as a 20-year-old in a bottom six role.

Sounds like the type of player people say we don’t draft. Didn’t sound like a guy they’ve given up on at all.

No update on when he’s coming over, but last I heard he was under contract there until the end of this season.

Kris Baker (Sabres prospect guy) mentions Poltapov as a likely future sabre every chance he gets.  Supposedly, there will be a fair amount of turnover in cska this year and he will likely have the chance to play up the lineup

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, Ctaeth said:

Kris Baker (Sabres prospect guy) mentions Poltapov as a likely future sabre every chance he gets.  Supposedly, there will be a fair amount of turnover in cska this year and he will likely have the chance to play up the lineup

I haven’t seen much of him except for a few highlights but he does sound like a disrupting type of player. I also listen to Kris Baker quite a bit and he mentions him as a future Sabre.

[Ctaeth]

2 hours ago, French Collection said:

I haven’t seen much of him except for a few highlights but he does sound like a disrupting type of player. I also listen to Kris Baker quite a bit and he mentions him as a future Sabre.

Love his podcast.  I'm not sure if that's what you listen to him through.  Him and Matthew Fairburn of the athletic do a Sabres podcast together... and I gotta say... I think it's by far the best out there.  It's a relatively fun listen and the two are quite insightful.  

 

Link to their podcast for those that don't know about it:  

 

Edit:  and for the record, it is a sabres focused podcast.  There is not a ton of prospect talk except when relevant to the conversation 

Edited July 3 by Ctaeth

[GASabresIUFAN]

31 minutes ago, Ctaeth said:

Love his podcast.  I'm not sure if that's what you listen to him through.  Him and Matthew Fairburn of the athletic do a Sabres podcast together... and I gotta say... I think it's by far the best out there.  It's a relatively fun listen and the two are quite insightful.  

 

Link to their podcast for those that don't know about it:  

 

Edit:  and for the record, it is a sabres focused podcast.  There is not a ton of prospect talk except when relevant to the conversation 

I did a rundown of the podcast in the Boycott thread.

[Brawndo]

 

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Am wondering if the fallback plan for 3C provided something can't be done before opening night isn't leave Krebs there as a placeholder until either he "gets it" or more likely one of Kulich, Savoie, or Helenius show they're too good for the AHL and get promoted into the spot.  It doesn't leave the position as good as you'd like it to be and there still is (when healthy) one additional slightly overdeployed F - either Benson or Greenway who takes the 4th top 6 W slot but neither is totally out of his element.

Depth at the top is still a big issue, and injuries could really hurt (and are realistically unavoidable), but ...

IF those & possibly still having a D or 2 playing on the 2nd pair that really should be on the 3rd pair are the ONLY spots that aren't at least NHL average, this team will be in the mix and with any amount of good luck going their way (and by now, they HAVE to be due for some, right?) well then ...

[FrenchConnection44]

On 7/2/2024 at 11:36 AM, LGR4GM said:

Now that I dealt with that let us talk about this. 

This is complete and utter bullhockey. It is patently false. Let's start with Zach Benson, he is only going to get harder and harder to play against. He won more puck battles than he lost last year. He is a pain in the ass already to play against. Dogged, smart with his body, keeps his feet moving, smart beyond his years. He is mini-marchand right now and I am most excited for him moving forward. 

Helenius is not fun to play against at all. He is very much in the mold of Benson with less of the stick work that Benson has and I would say less manipulation than Benson. Helenius is very much a checking center who uses his smarts and body to get the puck and transition to offense. He is not simply a skill player and will be hard to play against. 

Brodie Ziemer is a pain in the ass to play against. He was primarily used to protect Hagens and get the puck to Eiserman along with Teddy Stiga. They were the hard checking forwards of the USDP. Brodie is very much in the mold of Benson or a Tuch where he uses his body and checks and is always motoring. 

That's 3 players in 2 drafts where they used a majority of their high end picks on defense that are hard to play against. Poltapov is that as well but idk if he will ever come to NA. I think Kulich has been learning how to apply that part of his game more but I will leave him out for now. Sabres have recognized the finesse v hard to play against deficiency in their pool and actually get credit for working on addressing it. Do they need to do more? yes. I will also add Jack Quinn in here even though everyone seems to view him as soft. He isn't, he uses his body quite often to leverage position and shield the puck. On the backcheck he uses the same skills to separate players from the back and move back up ice. If he adds the muscle and is healthy all year, he is going to be a pain to play against because he has all the skills with the puck and willingness to engage physically to protect or retrieve it. 

Buffalo doesn't just draft skilled forwards. They definitely have an abundance of them but they seemed to understand that which is good. If we switch to defense... holy hell do they love big physical defenders. Novikov, Komarov, Kleber, Strbak all make their livings being physical in their own ends. 

 

Benson is good and a talented player in digging the puck but if he’s going to be a truly difficult player to play against and become a force going to have to put on 15-20 lbs of muscle from his draft weight of 163. 
 

 

[FrenchConnection44]

On 7/2/2024 at 11:47 AM, Flashsabre said:

But players are only hard to play against if they are 6’4, 225 lbs 😛

No one is arguing this, of course. Fallacy of the false dilemma. 😊

Same issue that no one is arguing only players over 6 ft tall can be physical. But size does at times come into play. I just don’t see one, let alone 5 Brad Marchands in our players. Maybe Helenius in what, 3-4 years? By then, who else will have asked out or been traded to a Cup contender, lol? 

One hopes these guys can play and develop into gritty, hard nosed, physical grinders. I don’t see any intimidators aside from maybe - but who knows - Walhberg. Maybe Poltapov but all we get ins a few reports. And a couple really good scorers. But it is even debatable that any will contribute big this year. Benson Has the mentality but he needs to come into camp close to 180  if I recall correctly he got up to near 170 last year.

How many rookies do we expect to make the team and contribute significantly this year? If any? 

Seems to me the biggest hope is that the same players from last season work their butts off in the offseason and show the talent they have only flashed to date. Which would be great. But it’s only a hope at this point. 

[LGR4GM]

17 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Benson is good and a talented player in digging the puck but if he’s going to be a truly difficult player to play against and become a force going to have to put on 15-20 lbs of muscle from his draft weight of 163. 
 

 

Zach Benson was already at 170lbs by the nhl combine according to his official weight. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

One issue I think other teams have with our prospect pool isn't the breath of it, but the projection of the ceiling for the players in it.  We have a ton of players you can projected playing in the NHL.  

Forwards - Savoie, Rosen, Kulich, Östlund, Wahlberg, Neuchev, Poltapov, Zeimer, Helenius and possibly others.

Defense - Johnson, Novikov, Komarov, Strbak and maybe others like Kleber and McCarthy

Goalies - Levi plus possibly Ratzlaff and Leenders

Outside of Levi, who is viewed as a potential high-end NHL starter and even that would be tempered by his size, who in our pipeline is considered to have top line potential?  I don't think anyone save maybe Helenius.  Nothing wrong with having a pile of middle six forward prospects, but if you are trying to entice someone to acquire a few prospects, having a standout or two would help. Truthfully, I see Kulich, Wahlberg, Rosen and Poltapov as max 3rd line players.  Savoie, Neuchev and Östlund, I can see getting 2nd line duty.

What about the D.  Where do we see the potential of Johnson, Novikov, Komarov and Strbak? 

[Flashsabre]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One issue I think other teams have with our prospect pool isn't the breath of it, but the projection of the ceiling for the players in it.  We have a ton of players you can projected playing in the NHL.  

Forwards - Savoie, Rosen, Kulich, Östlund, Wahlberg, Neuchev, Poltapov, Zeimer, Helenius and possibly others.

Defense - Johnson, Novikov, Komarov, Strbak and maybe others like Kleber and McCarthy

Goalies - Levi plus possibly Ratzlaff and Leenders

Outside of Levi, who is viewed as a potential high-end NHL starter and even that would be tempered by his size, who in our pipeline is considered to have top line potential?  I don't think anyone save maybe Helenius.  Nothing wrong with having a pile of middle six forward prospects, but if you are trying to entice someone to acquire a few prospects, having a standout or two would help. Truthfully, I see Kulich, Wahlberg, Rosen and Poltapov as max 3rd line players.  Savoie, Neuchev and Östlund, I can see getting 2nd line duty.

What about the D.  Where do we see the potential of Johnson, Novikov, Komarov and Strbak? 

Who has said other teams have issue with our prospect pool?

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One issue I think other teams have with our prospect pool isn't the breath of it, but the projection of the ceiling for the players in it.  We have a ton of players you can projected playing in the NHL.  

Forwards - Savoie, Rosen, Kulich, Östlund, Wahlberg, Neuchev, Poltapov, Zeimer, Helenius and possibly others.

Defense - Johnson, Novikov, Komarov, Strbak and maybe others like Kleber and McCarthy

Goalies - Levi plus possibly Ratzlaff and Leenders

Outside of Levi, who is viewed as a potential high-end NHL starter and even that would be tempered by his size, who in our pipeline is considered to have top line potential?  I don't think anyone save maybe Helenius.  Nothing wrong with having a pile of middle six forward prospects, but if you are trying to entice someone to acquire a few prospects, having a standout or two would help. Truthfully, I see Kulich, Wahlberg, Rosen and Poltapov as max 3rd line players.  Savoie, Neuchev and Östlund, I can see getting 2nd line duty.

What about the D.  Where do we see the potential of Johnson, Novikov, Komarov and Strbak? 

Maybe we should tank in order to get a top line prospect?

[GASabresIUFAN]

15 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Maybe we should tank in order to get a top line prospect?

That may be Adams plan this year.  

[kas23]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One issue I think other teams have with our prospect pool isn't the breath of it, but the projection of the ceiling for the players in it.  We have a ton of players you can projected playing in the NHL.  

Forwards - Savoie, Rosen, Kulich, Östlund, Wahlberg, Neuchev, Poltapov, Zeimer, Helenius and possibly others.

Defense - Johnson, Novikov, Komarov, Strbak and maybe others like Kleber and McCarthy

Goalies - Levi plus possibly Ratzlaff and Leenders

Outside of Levi, who is viewed as a potential high-end NHL starter and even that would be tempered by his size, who in our pipeline is considered to have top line potential?  I don't think anyone save maybe Helenius.  Nothing wrong with having a pile of middle six forward prospects, but if you are trying to entice someone to acquire a few prospects, having a standout or two would help. Truthfully, I see Kulich, Wahlberg, Rosen and Poltapov as max 3rd line players.  Savoie, Neuchev and Östlund, I can see getting 2nd line duty.

What about the D.  Where do we see the potential of Johnson, Novikov, Komarov and Strbak? 

I don’t think teams go digging around other team’s prospect pools looking to trade for the next McDavid or Bedard. If there was one in any teams pool, they would already be in the NHL. I really don’t think lack of very high ceiling is the issue. What’s much more likely is that Adams view each one at potential elite stars and packaging 2 of them in a single trade is a no go. Besides, look at all the teams saying ex-Sabres. Not everyone needs to be a star, but only to play a significant role. 

[LGR4GM]

34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That may be Adams plan this year.  

Oh yea? When's he trading Tage, Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Dahlin, Power, and Samuelsson so he can tank?

[GASabresIUFAN]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Oh yea? When's he trading Tage, Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Dahlin, Power, and Samuelsson so he can tank?

Lighten up Francis!

 

[JohnC]

49 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Lighten up Francis!

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=lighten+up+francsi&oq=lighten+up+francsi&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l9.4399j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d439af8c,vid:2H-Cs-fi5tA,st:0