The Sabres Prospect Pool 2024 Edition

[LGR4GM]

Gather round Sabrespace while we go through the Sabres prospect pool since everyone thinks the pool is filled with 5'10" 165lb softees. 

Forwards: The Sabres are rumored to have all these small tiny little forwards, yet do they? Do they really? Let's take a look and go from there. 

Buffalo has a stigma of drafting small guys. Why? Well in 2022 the Sabres drafted Savoie (5'10" 179lbs), Noah Östlund (5'11" 163lbs) and Jiri Kulich who at the time was also 5'11" but is 6'1" currently. This belief was heavily reinforced when Zach Benson (5'10" 180lbs) fell into the Sabres lap the following draft. It has supposedly been reinforced again when 5'11" 190lb Helenius fell to Buffalo in 2024. So the question is, is this true? Do we only draft small guys? No. 

Buffalo's Forwards drafted since 2020 (I have excluded players I feel have no NHL shot)

2020 draft:

Jack Quinn, 6'1" 185lbs

JJ Peterka, 6' 190lbs

2021 draft: Covid is weird but here

Isak Rosen, 6' 174lbs

Prokhor Poltapov, 6' 176lbs

Alek Kisakov, 5'11" 183lbs

Olivier Nadeau, 6'2" 205lbs

2022 draft:

Matt Savoie, 5'10" 179lbs

Noah Östlund, 5'11" 163lbs

Juri Kulich, 6'1" 185lbs

Viktor Neuchev, 5'11" 172lbs

2023 draft: here I think Buffalo shifted

Zach Benson, 5'10" roughly 180ish lbs

Anton Wahlberg, 6'3" 194lbs

Ethan Miedema, 6'4" 203lbs

2024 draft:

Konsta Helenius, 5'11" 190lbs

Brodie Ziemer, 5'11" 196lbs

Vasili Zelenov, 6' 181lbs

I think what happened is that in the 2021 and 2022 draft, Buffalo ended up selecting players that were certainly lighter and in some cases shorter. The narrative really starts there. 2022 in particular with 3 first round picks all under 6ft at the time of the draft being a big part as to why. Since then though Buffalo has not really followed that path. Zach Benson had to be the 2023 pick, he's great. But after him they specifically targeted 2 guys that were big and skated well. In 2024 the narrative is total trash, predicated on the belief that Corey Pronman barfs out constantly, that 6' is some magical cutoff and below it you are small and above it you are big. Konsta Helenius is not small, Brodie Ziemer is not small. Both players are probably going to play at or close to 6' and both are built already like a brick shithouse. I would note that neither Jack Quinn or JJ Peterka are small as both are 6' or taller and I would love to see updated weights on both because I bet they are pushing the 190s pretty well at this point. 

When it comes to forwards, I think we do see 1 draft in particular where Buffalo selected smaller speedy guys and that stigma has stuck and stuck hard. It seems the scouting and analytics department is aware of that and has used picks in the last 2 drafts to address that deficiency. Since Zach Benson, not a single small forward of note has been taken. The prospect pool has about 6-7 players that are under 6' and light (under 180lbs). It has 6 or 7 depending on the count, players that are over 6', over 180lbs or both. Do I want Buffalo to continue to find bigger players with talent? Yes I do but talent is talent. Konsta Helenius is not somehow deficient because he is 5'11" 190lbs just like Nygard is not guaranteed to be better because he is 6'1" 205lbs. The world isn't that simple. 

Next up, defense.

[triumph_communes]

Only rounds 1 and 2 even matter, which definitely has us two years in a row going small. I think that’s more to chance and them respecting their draft boards though 

[LGR4GM]

The Sabres and their defensive pool... here if you think Buffalo is small, GTFO.

Defense: Even here, there is whispers and suggestions that Buffalo is small and needs to get bigger! They only go after small pivots with high end skating and don't understand they need big gritty guys. I mean... okay, let's test this theory. 

First off we have to start in 2021 because they basically didn't take any defense in 2020. 

2021 draft:

Owen Power, 6'6" 218lbs

Nikita Novikov, 6'4" 198lbs

2022 draft:

Vsevolod Komarov, 6'3" 187lbs

2023 draft:

Maxim Strbak, 6'2" 190lbs

Gavin McCarthy, 6'2" 185lbs

2024 draft:

Adam Kleber, 6'6" 214lbs

Luke Osburn, 6'1" 172lbs

Simon-Pier Brunet, 6'2" 196lbs

Patrick Geary, 6'1" 185lbs

What is most interesting is how for 2 years the Sabres really didn't draft much in the way of defense. Since then, they have spent far more on defense in terms of quality picks. Their last 2 drafts they have used 2nd round picks (45 and 42) on defense and this past draft they went very hard on defense. Oddly enough they might have lucked out in 2021 because Nikita Novikov has all the makings of a solid #5 defender and he was 188 overall.  They might have done the same with their 2022 pick of Komarov who was 134 overall. Both of these guys will be in Rochester this season and I am excited. I think it also shows that you can find good defenders later in the draft as they tend to slide a bit compared to forwards. 

All in all, there is no size issue here. The smallest guy is not yet 18yr old Luke Osburn (won't be 18 until Sept) so plenty of time for him to get bigger. Outside of that we have a ton of 6'2" and up types in the pool and most of them are at or above 200lbs. Our defensive drafting has not been small. We actively seemed to have joined the trend of not drafting sub 6ft defenders that has swept the league. 

Overall, our D pool seems to be looking solid. I think at least Novikov and Strbak see NHL games in the next few years with Komarov and Kleber likely too as well. Note that Strbak, Kleber, and Komarov are all RHD so that is helpful as Joker and Clifton rotate away from the team in a few years. Should be fun. I think I like the defensive prospects depth we have and actually like how we use 2nd and 3rds here as I think you are finding value that way. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:25 PM by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Only rounds 1 and 2 even matter, which definitely has us two years in a row going small. I think that’s more to chance and them respecting their draft boards though 

2022 and 2023 we went small with Savoie and Benson, that said Benson plays far above his size. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

33 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

(I have excluded players I feel have no NHL shot)

You need to keep editing.  Zelenoov, Poltapov, and Nadeau are never playing in the NHL.  Kisakov and Miedema are unlikely as well. 

https://www.amerks.com/team

The Amerks list the following players

Rosen - 5-11 168

Östlund - 5-11 163

Rousek - 5-11 191

Kulich - 5-11 170

Kisakov - 5-10 160

Neuchev - 5-11 171

Nadaeu - 6-2 198

Wahlberg - 6-3 194

Edited Tuesday at 02:43 PM by GASabresIUFAN

[LTS]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

2022 and 2023 we went small with Savoie and Benson, that said Benson plays far above his size. 

Benson..

[Mango]

At the risk of being pedantic I don’t consider JJP, Quinn, or Power prospects. They have multiple NHL seasons and either have major extensions or are waiting on a major extension.

 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You need to keep editing.  Zelenoov, Poltapov, and Nadeau are never playing in the NHL.  Kisakov and Miedema are unlikely as well. 

https://www.amerks.com/team

The Amerks list the following players

Rosen - 5-10 188

Östlund - 5-11 163

Rousek - 5-11 191

Kulich - 5-11 170

Kisakov - 5-10 160

Neuchev - 5-11 171

Nadaeu - 6-2 198

Wahlberg - 6-3 194

I decline. Kulich's weight here is incorrect, so I view all the rest as suspect as well. I know that EP pulled his height and weight from his WJC measures which I feel good about. Idk what you are looking at but here is the Rochester roster which shows Rosen as as 6' 173.  https://theahl.com/stats/roster/323/81

I pull all height and weights from EP, Benson being the exception. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I decline. Kulich's weight here is incorrect, so I view all the rest as suspect as well. I know that EP pulled his height and weight from his WJC measures which I feel good about. Idk what you are looking at but here is the Rochester roster which shows Rosen as as 6' 173.  https://theahl.com/stats/roster/323/81

The list I typed is exactly what the Amerks own webpage shows.  I even provided the link.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

The list I typed is exactly what the Amerks own webpage shows.  I even provided the link.

And I quoted a link directly from AHL.com and I checked EP. 

[Flashsabre]

Rosen is not 5’10

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

And I quoted a link directly from AHL.com and I checked EP. 

That's fine, but that's not what the team shows.  

[RochesterExpat]

13 minutes ago, Mango said:

At the risk of being pedantic I don’t consider JJP, Quinn, or Power prospects. They have multiple NHL seasons and either have major extensions or are waiting on a major extension.

 

I don't think they're prospects, but if we're talking about "drafting small players" they should be included even if they've graduated to the NHL.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

I don't think they're prospects, but if we're talking about "drafting small players" they should be included even if they've graduated to the NHL.

I included all players that Kevyn Adams has overseen drafting for so 2020-2024. I excluded players that had no chance in hell of NHL games and left anyone on the fringes. 

[GoPuckYourself]

I think Noah Östlund is going to be special, I'd like to see him with a full season in the AHL under his belt this year. Kulich in Rosen did not look liked they belonged on an NHL roster yet granted it was only short stints and i wasn't really impressed with Rousek when he was up here either. Anton Wahlberg is another guy I'm looking forward to seeing all season long in the AHL, 4 points in 9 games is solid considering plus 1 point in 5 playoff games.

The defense is what I'm most excited about at least the future at RHD in particular with Strbak, Kleber both big boys who aren't afraid of physicality but can skate also not just brute slugs out there. I really like Nikita Novikov, Ryan Johnson at LHD both looking like they may take the leap and possibly make Samuelsson expendable if he keeps getting injured like he does.

[No Goal]

Where is Nathan Gerbe when we need him ?

[matter2003]

This "small team" narrative just won't die even tho it hasn't been true in several years now. It's just a lazy thing to say by people who don't spend much time actually fact checking old media narratives

[FrenchConnection44]

Even Peterka and Quinn - though not under 6 feet - are not big nor physical players. (Not arguing any of these players are not talented. Because that’s not really the point).
 

There just is not that player on the roster, particularly at the forward position, who plays a physical two-way game and has the size and strength to do so with great effectiveness and I believe that is a necessary ingredient to win the Cup. The Marchand’s of the world come around once every generation and even he can get roughed up due to his size. 
 

Perhaps it will come with one of these. But we don’t have one, let alone two at the forward position, as yet. 

[B-U-F-F-A-L-O]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Gather round Sabrespace while we go through the Sabres prospect pool since everyone thinks the pool is filled with 5'10" 165lb softees. 

Forwards: The Sabres are rumored to have all these small tiny little forwards, yet do they? Do they really? Let's take a look and go from there. 

Buffalo has a stigma of drafting small guys. Why? Well in 2022 the Sabres drafted Savoie (5'10" 179lbs), Noah Östlund (5'11" 163lbs) and Jiri Kulich who at the time was also 5'11" but is 6'1" currently. This belief was heavily reinforced when Zach Benson (5'10" 180lbs) fell into the Sabres lap the following draft. It has supposedly been reinforced again when 5'11" 190lb Helenius fell to Buffalo in 2024. So the question is, is this true? Do we only draft small guys? No. 

Buffalo's Forwards drafted since 2020 (I have excluded players I feel have no NHL shot)

2020 draft:

Jack Quinn, 6'1" 185lbs

JJ Peterka, 6' 190lbs

2021 draft: Covid is weird but here

Isak Rosen, 6' 174lbs

Prokhor Poltapov, 6' 176lbs

Alek Kisakov, 5'11" 183lbs

Olivier Nadeau, 6'2" 205lbs

2022 draft:

Matt Savoie, 5'10" 179lbs

Noah Östlund, 5'11" 163lbs

Juri Kulich, 6'1" 185lbs

Viktor Neuchev, 5'11" 172lbs

2023 draft: here I think Buffalo shifted

Zach Benson, 5'10" roughly 180ish lbs

Anton Wahlberg, 6'3" 194lbs

Ethan Miedema, 6'4" 203lbs

2024 draft:

Konsta Helenius, 5'11" 190lbs

Brodie Ziemer, 5'11" 196lbs

Vasili Zelenov, 6' 181lbs

I think what happened is that in the 2021 and 2022 draft, Buffalo ended up selecting players that were certainly lighter and in some cases shorter. The narrative really starts there. 2022 in particular with 3 first round picks all under 6ft at the time of the draft being a big part as to why. Since then though Buffalo has not really followed that path. Zach Benson had to be the 2023 pick, he's great. But after him they specifically targeted 2 guys that were big and skated well. In 2024 the narrative is total trash, predicated on the belief that Corey Pronman barfs out constantly, that 6' is some magical cutoff and below it you are small and above it you are big. Konsta Helenius is not small, Brodie Ziemer is not small. Both players are probably going to play at or close to 6' and both are built already like a brick shithouse. I would note that neither Jack Quinn or JJ Peterka are small as both are 6' or taller and I would love to see updated weights on both because I bet they are pushing the 190s pretty well at this point. 

When it comes to forwards, I think we do see 1 draft in particular where Buffalo selected smaller speedy guys and that stigma has stuck and stuck hard. It seems the scouting and analytics department is aware of that and has used picks in the last 2 drafts to address that deficiency. Since Zach Benson, not a single small forward of note has been taken. The prospect pool has about 6-7 players that are under 6' and light (under 180lbs). It has 6 or 7 depending on the count, players that are over 6', over 180lbs or both. Do I want Buffalo to continue to find bigger players with talent? Yes I do but talent is talent. Konsta Helenius is not somehow deficient because he is 5'11" 190lbs just like Nygard is not guaranteed to be better because he is 6'1" 205lbs. The world isn't that simple. 

Next up, defense.

No. The narrative started with the Peyton Krebs acquisition. Don’t forget him. He was supposed to be a huge piece of the Jack Eichel trade. So there is six first rounders in a row we acquired using tremendous resources and all six are similar players that aren’t going to the net and shoving the puck in there.

Plus! The Sabres drafted zero tough to play against forwards in any spot of the last five drafts. They are all skill players. None drafted to be hard to play against. That’s about 90 players drafted over that span. You can say Walberg last year but we’ll see if he has any grit to his game. This year we finally drafted one player that is known to go into the corners to get the damn puck.

And the kicker is of: Krebs - Rosen - Savoie - Östlund - Kulich and Benson that it is very possible that no combination of any of those players could create an effective line in the NHL…. This could very well be wrong but we’ll see…. Rochester was such a disappointment last season losing to weak Syracuse team aside from them being men. I think they might need players to go do the dirty work for them but we have no one like that…. Walberg and Zeimer over the last five drafts, Two freakin’ players out of 90… and zero #1 picks.

i liked the Helenius pick but it looks like Buffalo was idiotic once again trading down too early….and I’ll be watching what pick #15 does in his career too…

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, B-U-F-F-A-L-O said:

No. The narrative started with the Peyton Krebs acquisition. Don’t forget him. He was supposed to be a huge piece of the Jack Eichel trade. So there is six first rounders in a row we acquired using tremendous resources and all six are similar players that aren’t going to the net and shoving the puck in there.

Plus! The Sabres drafted zero tough to play against forwards in any spot of the last five drafts. They are all skill players. None drafted to be hard to play against. That’s about 90 players drafted over that span. You can say Walberg last year but we’ll see if he has any grit to his game. This year we finally drafted one player that is known to go into the corners to get the damn puck.

And the kicker is of: Krebs - Rosen - Savoie - Östlund - Kulich and Benson that it is very possible that no combination of any of those players could create an effective line in the NHL…. This could very well be wrong but we’ll see…. Rochester was such a disappointment last season losing to weak Syracuse team aside from them being men. I think they might need players to go do the dirty work for them but we have no one like that…. Walberg and Zeimer over the last five drafts, Two freakin’ players out of 90… and zero #1 picks.

i liked the Helenius pick but it looks like Buffalo was idiotic once again trading down too early….and I’ll be watching what pick #15 does in his career too…

Man, you don't know puck if you think the 6 first rounders Buffalo has drafted are all similar players. 

Fun fact, Zach Benson is one of the best checkers and inside drivers of play in the history of the WHL. He is closer to Bedard than he is the 3rd person. 

Helenius is 4th in points for Liiga players who are in their draft year and he didn't do it being a perimeter player. 

FTR. Savoie didn't play in the AHL playoffs last year. Wahlberg and Östlund did but had barely 11 games of AHL game experience between them. Krebs also wasn't in the AHL playoffs. Zach Benson, not in the AHL playoffs. So you are mad that Rosen and Kulich were not better in the AHL playoffs. 

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, B-U-F-F-A-L-O said:

Plus! The Sabres drafted zero tough to play against forwards in any spot of the last five drafts. They are all skill players. None drafted to be hard to play against. That’s about 90 players drafted over that span. You can say Walberg last year but we’ll see if he has any grit to his game. This year we finally drafted one player that is known to go into the corners to get the damn puck.

Now that I dealt with that let us talk about this. 

This is complete and utter bullhockey. It is patently false. Let's start with Zach Benson, he is only going to get harder and harder to play against. He won more puck battles than he lost last year. He is a pain in the ass already to play against. Dogged, smart with his body, keeps his feet moving, smart beyond his years. He is mini-marchand right now and I am most excited for him moving forward. 

Helenius is not fun to play against at all. He is very much in the mold of Benson with less of the stick work that Benson has and I would say less manipulation than Benson. Helenius is very much a checking center who uses his smarts and body to get the puck and transition to offense. He is not simply a skill player and will be hard to play against. 

Brodie Ziemer is a pain in the ass to play against. He was primarily used to protect Hagens and get the puck to Eiserman along with Teddy Stiga. They were the hard checking forwards of the USDP. Brodie is very much in the mold of Benson or a Tuch where he uses his body and checks and is always motoring. 

That's 3 players in 2 drafts where they used a majority of their high end picks on defense that are hard to play against. Poltapov is that as well but idk if he will ever come to NA. I think Kulich has been learning how to apply that part of his game more but I will leave him out for now. Sabres have recognized the finesse v hard to play against deficiency in their pool and actually get credit for working on addressing it. Do they need to do more? yes. I will also add Jack Quinn in here even though everyone seems to view him as soft. He isn't, he uses his body quite often to leverage position and shield the puck. On the backcheck he uses the same skills to separate players from the back and move back up ice. If he adds the muscle and is healthy all year, he is going to be a pain to play against because he has all the skills with the puck and willingness to engage physically to protect or retrieve it. 

Buffalo doesn't just draft skilled forwards. They definitely have an abundance of them but they seemed to understand that which is good. If we switch to defense... holy hell do they love big physical defenders. Novikov, Komarov, Kleber, Strbak all make their livings being physical in their own ends. 

 

[Flashsabre]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Now that I dealt with that let us talk about this. 

This is complete and utter bullhockey. It is patently false. Let's start with Zach Benson, he is only going to get harder and harder to play against. He won more puck battles than he lost last year. He is a pain in the ass already to play against. Dogged, smart with his body, keeps his feet moving, smart beyond his years. He is mini-marchand right now and I am most excited for him moving forward. 

Helenius is not fun to play against at all. He is very much in the mold of Benson with less of the stick work that Benson has and I would say less manipulation than Benson. Helenius is very much a checking center who uses his smarts and body to get the puck and transition to offense. He is not simply a skill player and will be hard to play against. 

Brodie Ziemer is a pain in the ass to play against. He was primarily used to protect Hagens and get the puck to Eiserman along with Teddy Stiga. They were the hard checking forwards of the USDP. Brodie is very much in the mold of Benson or a Tuch where he uses his body and checks and is always motoring. 

That's 3 players in 2 drafts where they used a majority of their high end picks on defense that are hard to play against. Poltapov is that as well but idk if he will ever come to NA. I think Kulich has been learning how to apply that part of his game more but I will leave him out for now. Sabres have recognized the finesse v hard to play against deficiency in their pool and actually get credit for working on addressing it. Do they need to do more? yes. I will also add Jack Quinn in here even though everyone seems to view him as soft. He isn't, he uses his body quite often to leverage position and shield the puck. On the backcheck he uses the same skills to separate players from the back and move back up ice. If he adds the muscle and is healthy all year, he is going to be a pain to play against because he has all the skills with the puck and willingness to engage physically to protect or retrieve it. 

Buffalo doesn't just draft skilled forwards. They definitely have an abundance of them but they seemed to understand that which is good. If we switch to defense... holy hell do they love big physical defenders. Novikov, Komarov, Kleber, Strbak all make their livings being physical in their own ends. 

 

But players are only hard to play against if they are 6’4, 225 lbs 😛

[In The Buff]

I think another factor that feeds into this perception of drafting small players is their play on the ice itself. The team has played small & when you see us getting pushed around on the ice, in a way it reinforces that idea.

As an aside, i dont think this would even be a concern-able topic if we were winning games. When you've missed the playoffs for as long as us, one starts to look for anomalies to help explain the irrational. We're the youngest team in the league... smallest etc.

[GASabresIUFAN]

How would you divide the prospects by quality and likelihood to play in the NHL?

 

[LGR4GM]

35 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

I think another factor that feeds into this perception of drafting small players is their play on the ice itself. The team has played small & when you see us getting pushed around on the ice, in a way it reinforces that idea.

As an aside, i dont think this would even be a concern-able topic if we were winning games. When you've missed the playoffs for as long as us, one starts to look for anomalies to help explain the irrational. We're the youngest team in the league... smallest etc.

Yup, exactly this.