Will Adams acquire a legit top 6 forward or 2/3 center before next season? Who do think is still available to acquire?

[DarthEbriate]

Good. Goooood...  Just reading through this thread and wondering where GM Sheevyn is going to get a top 6 apprentice.

On 7/1/2024 at 6:19 PM, Thorny said:

But the reference in regard to the post was clear. Pegula / Emperor 

GM Sheevyn is the Emperor, having staged his 10-year coup and vote of no confidence in the previous supreme chancellor/GM JBot.

Darth Pegulas (the Wise?) is always off-screen.

[triumph_communes]

Kadri has been out west long enough I forget my disdain for him. He’d fit perfect with Ruff

[JohnC]

24 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Hey Scotty, thanks for the generous offer to celebrate our nation’s birthday with you and yours, but we’re in Atlanta visiting family down here. I’ll face north, raise a glass and toast to your enjoyment of the day. Sounds like you’ll have a blast. Enjoy!

You need to be discrete about demonstrating your Yankee loyalties. There are still plenty of Confederate never-enders where you are who consider you to be the enemy. Watch your back! Blend in and practice saying ya'll.  😄

[Archie Lee]

9 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

From Expected Buffalo,

" From what I understand, the Winnipeg Jets wanted four pieces from the Sabres in exchange for Nik Ehlers without an extension in place. Three of those four would have been considered top-tier assets. It’s a hefty price that I can make an argument for not paying."

I agree that's an asinine price, especially without an extension. 

I would have to know what the pieces are to comment. Ehlers would be a nice add. I’ve heard him say nice things about the Sabres over the last couple of years. Maybe that’s just how he is when it comes to speaking about opponents. I’m not sure he moves the needle much though. Obviously he is a veteran player who has played in the top 6 for an NHL playoff team, but it would not shock me if Peterka, Quinn, Benson (in some combination, if not all 3), played at his level or better as early as this year. 

I would just as soon:

- Sign Roslovic to something that resembles the Clifton deal. He is a winger who can slide to centre if needed. Gives us middle six depth. Someone is getting injured sooner or later, so no need to agonize over where he fits from a line-make-up perspective. He would simply improve our depth and would make it 5 forwards added who played playoff games 2-3 months ago: and

- Trade for Rasmus Andersson. Not the perfect fit. He has a 6 team no trade so we might not be an option. He has two years left though not one. Joker, protected 1st in 2024, one of our right shot D prospects and one of our forward prospects for Andersson, Rooney and a 3rd.  Gives us a playoff calibre D (arguably our 3 worst D would have playoff experience) and more depth and grit up front  

Edited July 3 by Archie Lee

[K-9]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

You need to be discrete about demonstrating your Yankee loyalties. There are still plenty of Confederate never-enders where you are who consider you to be the enemy. Watch your back! Blend in and practice saying ya'll.  😄

Like the saying goes, there’s Atlanta and then there’s the rest of Georgia. 😄 But I’ve been coming here for decades and Atlanta, despite it’s huge corporate population, has always felt like a giant college town. Very rich in history and multi-cultural experiences. 

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Like the saying goes, there’s Atlanta and then there’s the rest of Georgia. 😄 But I’ve been coming here for decades and Atlanta, despite it’s huge corporate population, has always felt like a giant college town. Very rich in history and multi-cultural experiences. 

Maybe you can bump into @GASabresIUFAN. Whatever you do don't talk about the Sabres, and especially about the GM. He'll go ballistic on you! Based on his postings, he's at the boiling point and ready to explode. 🙂

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I would have to know what the pieces are to comment. Ehlers would be a nice add. I’ve heard him say nice things about the Sabres over the last couple of years. Maybe that’s just how he is when it comes to speaking about opponents. I’m not sure he moves the needle much though. Obviously he is a veteran player who has played in the top 6 for an NHL playoff team, but it would not shock me if Peterka, Quinn, Benson (in some combination, if not all 3), played at his level or better as early as this year. 

I would just as soon:

- Sign Roslovic to something that resembles the Clifton deal. He is a winger who can slide to centre if needed. Gives us middle six depth. Someone is getting injured sooner or later, so no need to agonize over where he fits from a line-make-up perspective. He would simply improve our depth and would make it 5 forwards added who played playoff games 2-3 months ago: and

- Trade for Rasmus Andersson. Not the perfect fit. He has a 6 team no trade so we might not be an option. He has two years left though not one. Joker, protected 1st in 2024, one of our right shot D prospects and one of our forward prospects for Andersson, Rooney and a 3rd.  Gives us a playoff calibre D (arguably our 3 worst D would have playoff experience) and more depth and grit up front  

No specific example was given however the general idea was

14, Savoie, Rosen and another mid to high prospect or pick for Ehlers and Iaffalo. 

Without an extension it becomes a bridge too far.

Edited July 3 by thewookie1

[MISabresFan]

No on the top 6 forward from Adams.

[Rasmus_]

4 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Kadri has been out west long enough I forget my disdain for him. He’d fit perfect with Ruff

Sure if he costs future considerations, and or Calgary eats a decent percentage of his salary.  My problem with Kadri is that the older he gets the more he's likely to fall off a cliff.   I personally don't want to be on the hook for his $7M cap hit in two years from now.  If he had a two or three year deal left, perhaps.  Otherwise, pass.  Unless again, it's a zero net cost and or they cover salary.  The guy has negative value being over 30, what is he 33 next year?

Edited July 3 by Rasmus_

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

No specific example was given however the general idea was

14, Savoie, Rosen and another mid to high prospect or pick for Ehlers and Iaffalo. 

Without an extension it becomes a bridge too far.

Having just made a point that we may need to overpay and make an offer another GM can't refuse, I now state that I don't think I make that trade even with an Ehlers extension. Ehlers is a good player who I would take on the Sabres to be sure, but I think he is too much of what we already have in Quinn and Peterka to warrant paying that high of a price.  Iafallo is good also, but at his salary and production I think he was worth next to nothing in the trade market pre-draft and free-agency. Had we made that trade we likely don't sign Zucker, who we got for nothing and is at least as good as Iafallo.  

I think it was one piece to many.  Take one of the 1st, Savoie or Rosen out and assume the 4th piece was a mid-round pick for Iafallo and it would have been reasonable.

 

[Pimlach]

14 hours ago, oddoublee said:

Am I one of the few who likes Benson but just isn't ready to label him top 6? Bright future...but in reality, shouldn't he be in the ahl next year? Thinking long term of course..

So you play Benson for two season in the NHL, full time, top 9, and then send him to the AHL?  For what?  

Thats is a fireable offense IMO.  But it highlights how our fan base is conditioned to accept the poor job Adams did last year, our “go for it” year, as normal.   It’s not.  

Don’t let Adams poor work as a GM become your new normal. 

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, oddoublee said:

All I'm saying is, if the rules allowed, the ahl would have been better for him last year. On a playoff caliber team, he would not have been playing in the NHL last year.

I like him...just staying the obvious...the sabres lack quality depth. That's the only reason he played.

The reasons Benson played is because they didn’t bring in an NHL player to backfill Quinn, and both VO and Jost were terrible players.  
 

Benson earned his spot in part because Adams sat on his hands afraid to make moves, he rolled it back.  But he was quick to throw Granato under the bus about the state of the team in preseason, something he too was complicit in.  

[oddoublee]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

The reasons Benson played is because they didn’t bring in an NHL player to backfill Quinn, and both VO and Jost were terrible players.  
 

Benson earned his spot in part because Adams sat on his hands afraid to make moves, he rolled it back.  But he was quick to throw Granato under the bus about the state of the team in preseason, something he too was complicit in.  

Yeah, I think we are in agreement. I would never send him down now. Just making an observation along the lines of the AHL would have been preferable 'last year's if it were an option. He's a future top 6...just not next year is my guess...top 9 on other teams even would be tough for him.

[Thorner]

27 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Having just made a point that we may need to overpay and make an offer another GM can't refuse, I now state that I don't think I make that trade even with an Ehlers extension. Ehlers is a good player who I would take on the Sabres to be sure, but I think he is too much of what we already have in Quinn and Peterka to warrant paying that high of a price.  Iafallo is good also, but at his salary and production I think he was worth next to nothing in the trade market pre-draft and free-agency. Had we made that trade we likely don't sign Zucker, who we got for nothing and is at least as good as Iafallo.  

I think it was one piece to many.  Take one of the 1st, Savoie or Rosen out and assume the 4th piece was a mid-round pick for Iafallo and it would have been reasonable.

 

I think your last sentence is where the argument loses me. The sticking point is Isak Rosen? Presumably you think the addition bumps up our playoff chances in a meaningful way, and Rosen is a potential tipping point? 

We can draft a new Rosen next year, honestly 

It’s a non-issue

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The reasons Benson played is because they didn’t bring in an NHL player to backfill Quinn, and both VO and Jost were terrible players.  
 

Benson earned his spot in part because Adams sat on his hands afraid to make moves, he rolled it back.  But he was quick to throw Granato under the bus about the state of the team in preseason, something he too was complicit in.  

And we are rolling it back more less as of right now, too 

Yes, I understand we tweaked on the fringes, all teams do 

And I’m not including coach. I’m talking roster. I know Lindy might be the “big addition”

Edited July 3 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Conor Geekie, JJ Moser and a 2025 2nd got Utah Mikhael Sergachev.

Matt Savoie, Ryan Johnson and a 2025 2nd should get the Sabres a similar level forward.

Ehlers qualifies, but not without an extension. 

He’s a pending UFA. Sergachev has 6 prime years left.

If Chevy is demanding more than the Sergachev price for an unsigned Ehlers, Adams is right to say no.

There’s a difference between an overpay and getting bent over.

Edited July 3 by dudacek

[Archie Lee]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think your last sentence is where the argument loses me. The sticking point is Isak Rosen? Presumably you think the addition bumps up our playoff chances in a meaningful way, and Rosen is a potential tipping point? 

We can draft a new Rosen next year, honestly 

It’s a non-issue

And we are rolling it back more less as of right now, too 

Yes, I understand we tweaked on the fringes, all teams do 

You make a valid point.  Maybe a better way to put it from my perspective would be that if we are going to overpay, I would rather we trade a 1st, Savoie, Kulich and the 4th piece for a better player than Ehlers or for a player who brings an element that we don't already have.  I like Ehlers, I just don't think he moves the needle on the coming season much more than adding Tarasenko would.

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

You make a valid point.  Maybe a better way to put it from my perspective would be that if we are going to overpay, I would rather we trade a 1st, Savoie, Kulich and the 4th piece for a better player than Ehlers or for a player who brings an element that we don't already have.  I like Ehlers, I just don't think he moves the needle on the coming season much more than adding Tarasenko would.

I’m probably a little biased in Ehlers favour. I’ve seen him play a lot live and he’s pretty darn dangerous. He’s fast, would probably be our fastest player. He was a diver, and I hated that about him, but I think that’s a Maurice taught trait 

Same draft as Reinhart, I still think he has as much growth potential as Reinhart had and showed 

I will not be the guy complaining about an overpay if we trade for him 

Edited July 3 by Thorny

[dudacek]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m probably a little biased in Ehlers favour. I’ve seen him play a lot live and he’s pretty darn dangerous. He’s fast, would probably be our fastest player. He was a diver, and I hated that about him, but I think that’s a Maurice taught trait 

Same draft as Reinhart, I still think he has as much growth potential as Reinhart had and showed 

I will not be the guy complaining about an overpay if we trade for him 

If Ehlers is going to UFA regardless, Chevy is better off trading him this summer than having to make that call at the deadline while in the playoff race.

If I’m Adams, I’m betting on that and not caving July 3 with a huge overpay.

In that context, I’m thinking of what Adams said (paraphrase) about “If we’re not making a fair offer then why hasn’t the player been moved?”

Sounds to me like he believes that right now his offer (on at least one trade) is the best offer. If it’s also a fair offer, and the player needs to be moved, he’s right to hold for now.

It will be a long time before the season starts.

Edited July 3 by dudacek

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If Ehlers is going to UFA regardless, Chevy is better off trading him this summer than having to make that call at the deadline while in the playoff race.

If I’m Adams, I’m betting on that and not caving July 3 with a huge overpay.

In that context, I’m thinking of what Adams said (paraphrase) about “If we’re not making a fair offer than why hasn’t the player been moved?”

Sounds to me like he believes that right now his offer (on at least one trade) is the best offer. If it’s also a fair offer, and the player needs to be moved, he’s right to hold for now.

It will be a long time before the season starts.

Can’t say I agree. It’s more less the Ullmark situation then and wantonly casts away the variable of time and how things change. It’s playing much too fast and loose when the overpay is the significant lesser of two evils. The point isn’t to have an offer “as good as anyone else”. Or a fair offer. The point is to *get the player*.

does what you are saying not sound to you like exactly what Adams would say? Actually asking. It’s the type of thinking that allows you to come away with “I played my cards properly relative to the market” rather than “I played my cards properly in terms of securing a player” 

This is just more of the same. You aren’t REALLY prioritizing the asset.. the playoffs. You are still trying to see if you can have your cake and eat it too 

You are prioritizing getting him at the price you deem fair. How often had this worked for Adams? 

Edited July 3 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

All these Winnipeg rumors have them moving Tuch. I can't believe this and if they do this idk, I might truly be done. 

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Can’t say I agree. It’s more less the Ullmark situation then and wantonly casts away the variable of time and how things change. It’s playing much too fast and loose when the overpay is the significant lesser of two evils. The point isn’t to have an offer “as good as anyone else”. Or a fair offer. The point is to *get the player*.

does what you are saying not sound to you like exactly what Adams would say? Actually asking. It’s the type of thinking that allows you to come away with “I played my cards properly relative to the market” rather than “I played my cards properly in terms of securing a player” 

This is just more of the same. You aren’t REALLY prioritizing the asset.. the playoffs. You are still trying to see if you can have your cake and eat it too 

You are prioritizing getting him at the price you deem fair. How often had this worked for Adams? 

You sound like you’re selling me a limited-time offer on a time share.

My goal is not making the playoffs at all costs and if it was, I don’t believe Ehlers is my only path to get there.

Do you believe we should be acquiring Ehlers at all costs, or that Adams should pay whatever is asked without negotiation?

Desperation is a bad look and a bad strategy.

 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, oddoublee said:

Yeah, I think we are in agreement. I would never send him down now. Just making an observation along the lines of the AHL would have been preferable 'last year's if it were an option. He's a future top 6...just not next year is my guess...top 9 on other teams even would be tough for him.

Absolutely, as good as he played in those first 9 games, I  think most teams would have sent him back to juniors.  Not being AHL eligible made is risky to keep him.   As it turns out the kid held his own.  Now they have to help him and keep the goons away.  

[dudacek]

18 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

All these Winnipeg rumors have them moving Tuch. I can't believe this and if they do this idk, I might truly be done. 

I hope to god you aren’t repeating 3rd or 4th hand that AI-generated pap that was quoted elsewhere on the site?

Or, I guess more accurately I hope you are. 😁

[Thorner]

29 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You sound like you’re selling me a limited-time offer on a time share.

My goal is not making the playoffs at all costs and if it was, I don’t believe Ehlers is my only path to get there.

Do you believe we should be acquiring Ehlers at all costs, or that Adams should pay whatever is asked without negotiation?

Desperation is a bad look and a bad strategy.

 

Frankly I don’t think anything you said here addresses anything I said 

- - - 

Desperation isn’t a “look” or a “strategy”. It’s our current actual state 

We *are* desperate. 

We *have* great need.

It’s operating and pretending as if we DON’T that presents the contradiction 

I am saying they should pay the price required to get Ehlers right now. Saying “at all costs” is just reductio ad absurdum. There’s a line we can hit here where they move the player to us and it’s not going to be 11 first round pick level assets 

If not him, pick someone else akin. Better be damn confident that other guy shakes lose, though. The result can’t just be “no one”

”who even was there” isn’t a viable defence 

- - - 

And record, sure, I’d sell this team’s prospect soul to make the playoffs. Yes, at all costs. I understand I care about making the playoffs more than you. I understand I care more about it than Kevyn Adams. That’s been indisputably obvious for a long time. I’ve always been very clear on this stance: my goal is the playoffs. I don’t give two sh*ts about “building a cup contender”. I’ve never bought that narrative, I never will, and it’s snake oil by definition 

Edited July 3 by Thorny

[dudacek]

52 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Frankly I don’t think anything you said here addresses anything I said

- - - 

Desperation isn’t a “look” or a “strategy”. It’s our current actual state

We *are* desperate. 

We *have* great need.

It’s operating and pretending as if we DON’T that presents the contradiction 

I am saying they should pay the price required to get Ehlers right now. Saying “at all costs” is just reductio ad absurdum. There’s a line we can hit here where they move the player to us and it’s not going to be 11 first round pick level assets

If not him, pick someone else akin. Better be damn confident that other guy shakes lose, though. The result can’t just be “no one”

”who even was there” isn’t a viable defence 

Don't mistake my argument as saying Adams has to "win" or even "break even" value-wise on every deal.

My argument in the post you quoted was twofold:

• That I perceive Chevy's situation and "market value" adding up to "we haven't seen his final offer"
• Adams needs to do his due diligence in maximizing any potential deal he is negotiating.

Its impossible to have a good discussion about whether or not Adams should just pay the current price when we don't know what the price is.

Edited July 3 by dudacek