Will Adams acquire a legit top 6 forward or 2/3 center before next season? Who do think is still available to acquire?

[seer775]

Adams ***** up when he didn't sign any star FAs.

We needed a Top 4 Dman. Didn't get one.

We needed a Top 6F or a 3C, Didn't get one.

We're cooked boys and girls. See you next year this time.

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Why 3 years?

That's how long the kids (TT, Cozens, Dahlin, Quinn, JJP, UPL) will take being on the worst team in the league with no hope for victory before they realize they can easily win (and make more money) playing for someone else.

Just like everyone else that's been in the system for the last dozen years.

[Turbo44]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

https://www.nhltraderumor.com/sabres-jets-trade-rumor-tuch-ehlers-iafallo/

No clue who the author is, but a friend just sent me this.  Thought it could be fun to ponder. 

From a talent standpoint this would make sense. Never going to happen though, as

 1. Ehlers and iafallo both walk in a year

2. not getting rid of the one player that wants to play in Buffalo 

 

 

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Adams ***** up when he didn't sign any star FAs.

We needed a Top 4 Dman. Didn't get one.

We needed a Top 6F or a 3C, Didn't get one.

We're cooked boys and girls. See you next year this time.

That's how long the kids (TT, Cozens, Dahlin, Quinn, JJP, UPL) will take being on the worst team in the league with no hope for victory before they realize they can easily win (and make more money) playing for someone else.

Just like everyone else that's been in the system for the last dozen years.

I think the clock is ticking right now tbh. I’d wager I’m not the only fan signing up for some distance from this team if we miss and Adams is back again. There comes a point of unseriousness from a franchise where there’s no return 

Oh like Star Wars

[seer775]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think the clock is ticking right now tbh. I’d wager I’m not the only fan signing up for some distance from this team if we miss and Adams is back again. There comes a point of unseriousness from a franchise where there’s no return 

Oh like Star Wars

I saw an interview with Lindy where he said "my Job is to get the team believing in themselves again".

Zero results, zero optimism.

I think Lindy is in over his head. The issue is TERRENCE PEGULA.

How many former Sabres have won the cup since TP took ownership?

Eichel, ROR, Reinhart, KO, Montour, ERod, Kulikov, Bogo.

How many have come close?

E Kane, Kassian, Vesey, Ullmark, Lehner, Myers, to name a few.

Need I say more?

[Crusader1969]

21 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Listening to Baker and Fairburn's show and Baker thinks KA isn't done.  Thinks they should go get Zegras.  Fairburn thinks there is a deal to be made with Calgary who needs a youth injection.  Maybe Coleman, maybe Kadri. I'm wondering if Backlund is available.  His experience would be very valuable and he is still effective.  

Kadri would be very interesting 

Just now, Crusader1969 said:

Kadri would be very interesting 

Forget it.  Has a NTC.   League needs to get rid of those in the next Player agreement 

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Ya he has never traded for a top 6 forward aside from cashing in on Eichel I believe. He’s never bought a player, never completed a trade where we were getting the big name  

Until we see it, don’t expect it 

That’s a 5 offseason period 

Byram was a fairly big name.

 

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

22-23? 

Our second and 5th leading point scoring forwards aren’t here. That’s 141 points we need to replace on top of Thompson Tuch and Cozens reverting back to career years. 

Who’s replacing those points?

Peterka and Quinn had 70 points combined that year. Ok, so maybe we get lucky and Quinn stays healthy and puts up *70 points* on his own- a stellar year. Who’s gets the other 141? Peterka going for 70 as well? Ok, still need ANOTHER 70, and this is assuming Tage Tuch and Cozens ALL rebound 

The Sabres were 3rd in the NHL in scoring in 2022-23, with 3.57 goals per game.  They had one 90+ pt scorer, 1 80+ pt scorer and 2 70+ pt scorers, one of whom was a defenseman.

Guess who was 4th in scoring that season, with 3.52 goals per game -- and, interestingly enough, the same number of 90+, 80+ and 70+ pt scorers (one of whom was a defenseman)?

And guess who coached that 4th-highest-scoring team?

I'll bet you $25 to the charity of the winner's choice that the Sabres are top-10 in scoring next season.

 

[Ctaeth]

I think he will try to.  But we all know how that ends up 😆

edit:  to be clear, i mean that he ends up at the podium explaining to all of us how hard he tried

Edited Wednesday at 01:14 AM by Ctaeth

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, Mr. Allen said:

https://www.nhltraderumor.com/sabres-jets-trade-rumor-tuch-ehlers-iafallo/

No clue who the author is, but a friend just sent me this.  Thought it could be fun to ponder. 

Easy no, I’m not trading Tuch period

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

We don’t watch movies the same way 

It would have been better if Luke showed up and acted like an invincible overpowered MCU superhero? lol dude. Say you didn’t understand the movie without saying you didn’t understand the movie

The *entire point* was that Rey was right, Luke was wrong, and the galaxy DID need a legend. “What do you want me to do, stare down the entire first order with a lightsaber?!” But that’s exactly what Luke does. But not physically:

People wanted the Luke from the OT back: we got it. His force projection to Crait *literally only succeeded as a distraction* because of the sum total of the accomplishment, belief, heroics and INSPIRATION Luke had built up over the course of the saga. They literally fire a million high powered rounds of explosive force at his feet, Luke “walks out” from the smoke and brushes his shoulder off, and Kylo and the first order *still believed he was actually there*. Do you understand what kind of opinion they had to have of Luke to believe he could withstand that?? “MOREEEEEEEE!” - Kylo

The galaxy needed a Legend and got it 

it wasn’t just the Spark he provided for the resistance: the belief in his legend undid the first order 

people that whined and cried for the old Luke and it was staring them right in the face. Look at Kylo. Look at the fear.

Luke winks at C-3PO because he knows he’s already won 

- - -

and yes, worry for his sister made him snap in Jedi. That’s my point. His fear for EVERYONE made him snap, momentarily, in TLJ

The thing is, at the end of the day I didn’t want nor need some deep introspective piece of cinema. I and many others just wanted to go to a movie and see our old friend kick ass and leave feeling excited for more. Plus, this was supposed to be the Skywalker saga, the primary focal point should be a Skywalker not the daughter of a clone of the big bad. It turned Luke and Anakin’s stories into mere stepping stones on the greater path so some random Mary Sue could swoop in and save the day. Most of the TLJ sucked as a whole; get preached to about war profiteering in a casino with a random guy who double crosses them and literally serves no purpose. The tracking through hyperspace was lore breaking as was using the ship as a knife to slice through another fully shielded vessel. Not to mention the absurdity of the First Order taking over the galaxy sans their little trio of ships, within what was literally a week. 

Star Wars movies aren’t supposed to be overly deep cinema they are supposed to be fun, exciting and interesting with lore that intrigues you. They can have lessons and allusions but TLJ felt far too much like Rian Johnson wanted to make another one of his films, a psychological thriller or something you might see at Cannes.

[GoPuckYourself]

Someone get these nerds a star wars forum please ... 😄

 

[Flashsabre]

2 hours ago, Mr. Allen said:

https://www.nhltraderumor.com/sabres-jets-trade-rumor-tuch-ehlers-iafallo/

No clue who the author is, but a friend just sent me this.  Thought it could be fun to ponder. 

“According to rumors” LOL

[Flashsabre]

59 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Kadri would be very interesting 

Forget it.  Has a NTC.   League needs to get rid of those in the next Player agreement 

Kadri would most likely come. Calgary is rebuilding and Buffalo is close to home for him.

[Dr. Who]

22 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Someone get these nerds a star wars forum please ... 😄

 

Pretty sure one can legitimately blame KA for this as well.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Byram was a fairly big name.

 

The Sabres were 3rd in the NHL in scoring in 2022-23, with 3.57 goals per game.  They had one 90+ pt scorer, 1 80+ pt scorer and 2 70+ pt scorers, one of whom was a defenseman.

Guess who was 4th in scoring that season, with 3.52 goals per game -- and, interestingly enough, the same number of 90+, 80+ and 70+ pt scorers (one of whom was a defenseman)?

And guess who coached that 4th-highest-scoring team?

I'll bet you $25 to the charity of the winner's choice that the Sabres are top-10 in scoring next season.

 

I’m honestly not sure Byram represents an exception, but sorry, I started that paragraph off talking about how not once in 4 years has Adams bought a top 6 F and shifted the wording to “player” for some reason. That’s my mistake, I’m talking forwards the whole thing in intention

And im not sure it’s that far out of the realm of possibly we finish top 10 in scoring. Not sure if I’d bet on it, I’d say it’s more likely we do not, but it’s possible. That’s a lot different than 3rd potentially. 

Would you bet they finish top 3? The contention I took with your post was that they’d, without any other addition, equal the scoring of 22-23. 

Which is very unlikely as the roster stands 

Edited Wednesday at 02:04 AM by Thorny

[nfreeman]

59 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m honestly not sure Byram represents an exception, but sorry, I started that paragraph off talking about how not once in 4 years has Adams bought a top 6 F and shifted the wording to “player” for some reason. That’s my mistake, I’m talking forwards the whole thing in intention

And im not sure it’s that far out of the realm of possibly we finish top 10 in scoring. Not sure if I’d bet on it, I’d say it’s more likely we do not, but it’s possible. That’s a lot different than 3rd potentially. 

Would you bet they finish top 3? The contention I took with your post was that they’d, without any other addition, equal the scoring of 22-23. 

Which is very unlikely as the roster stands 

I wouldn't bet that they'll be top 3, as it's highly unlikely for anyone to finish top 3 -- in the last 3 seasons, there have been 8 different teams that have finished in the top 3 in scoring.  But a jump from #23 to top 10 is a meaningful jump, and I'm prepared to bet on that.

More importantly, my point is that Lindy will restore the potency of their offense -- which was terrible last year -- and will greatly improve their general focus and intensity and their performance at home.

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I wouldn't bet that they'll be top 3, as it's highly unlikely for anyone to finish top 3 -- in the last 3 seasons, there have been 8 different teams that have finished in the top 3 in scoring.  But a jump from #23 to top 10 is a meaningful jump, and I'm prepared to bet on that.

More importantly, my point is that Lindy will restore the potency of their offense -- which was terrible last year -- and will greatly improve their general focus and intensity and their performance at home.

I think it’s going to improve, too. Truth be told I don’t really have any interest at this point of the year when I’m trying to be as optimistic as I can, betting against my team making good but not incredible improvement. 

The original claim you made was more specific, “back to 22-23 rates”, if your point as you say is you expect significant improvement: I’m actually trying to convince myself of that, too. I dont think it’s coming without at least a 3C, we are way way too short on centres, but WITH that, as mentioned: I’m expecting a lot out of Quinn and JJ  

Unfortunately, we can also expect injuries. Need another top 7 forward 

Edited Wednesday at 03:13 AM by Thorny

[Archie Lee]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes. Kevyn Adams has never once traded picks and prospects for a top 6 player. He's a failure at it. 

I’m not defending the sum of what Adams has done to this point, but I do find the “Adams has never traded picks and prospects for a top 6 forward” argument to be a bit of a red herring. Most of us accept Thompson, Tuch, Cozens and Peterka as top 6 forwards. We also are willing to pencil one of Quinn/Benson into a top 6 role and for many of us that seems Interchangeable. Adams did draft Peterka, Quinn, Benson.  

I wonder if Adams could land a top 6, under 30, winger (Ehlers, Konecny, Necas, all needing extensions of course),  if he was willing to part with Benson or Quinn?  Would fans want this?  Depth-wise we could trade Benson or Quinn and still have Zucker and Greenway as 3rd line wingers and we also have prospects who might be ready before the year is out if not from the start.  If the answer to the question is “no way would I trade Benson or Quinn for one of those players”, then maybe we don’t really need to add a top 6 winger. 

Also, at this point I’m unconvinced Adams even has the option/authority to add such a player. Until we spend over $81 million, I am of the opinion that we have an internal cap and that Adams is mandated to not take on long-term deals in free agency. I don’t think there is a blanket view around the league that the Sabres aren’t worth the time to deal with, but there could be a kernel of truth in that maybe teams have come to realize we aren’t really serious about trading for the big fish. 

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Edited Wednesday at 03:23 AM by Archie Lee

[Thorny]

24 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I’m not defending the sum of what Adams has done to this point, but I do find the “Adams has never traded picks and prospects for a top 6 forward” argument to be a bit of a red herring. Most of us accept Thompson, Tuch, Cozens and Peterka as top 6 forwards. We also are willing to pencil one of Quinn/Benson into a top 6 role and for many of us that seems Interchangeable. Adams did draft Peterka, Quinn, Benson.  

I wonder if Adams could land a top 6, under 30, winger (Ehlers, Konecny, Necas, all needing extensions of course),  if he was willing to part with Benson or Quinn?  Would fans want this?  Depth-wise we could trade Benson or Quinn and still have Zucker and Greenway as 3rd line wingers and we also have prospects who might be ready before the year is out if not from the start.  If the answer to the question is “no way would I trade Benson or Quinn for one of those players”, then maybe we don’t really need to add a top 6 winger. 

Also, at this point I’m unconvinced Adams even has the option/authority to add such a player. Until we spend over $81 million, I am of the opinion that we have an internal cap and that Adams is mandated to not take on long-term deals in free agency. I don’t think there is a blanket view around the league that the Sabres aren’t worth the time to deal with, but there could be a kernel of truth in that maybe teams have come to realize we aren’t really serious about trading for the big fish. 

I haven’t been willing to pencil in any of benson Quinn or Peterka to the top 6 until this year, *it’s year 5*. 3 of the first 4 years of the Adams drought, 75% of it, Quinn and JJ were either not in the nhl at all, or rookies. And good teams have “top 6” quality players sometimes on the third line. I’ve even seen the Sabres do it. 

it’s not a red herring, it’s a fact

Edited Wednesday at 03:45 AM by Thorny

[oddoublee]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I haven’t been willing to pencil in any of benson Quinn or Peterka to the top 6 until this year, *it’s year 5*. 3 of the first 4 years of the Adams drought, 75% of it, Quinn and JJ were either not in the nhl at all, or rookies. And good teams have “top 6” quality players sometimes on the third line. I’ve even seen the Sabres do it. 

it’s not a red herring, it’s a fact

Am I one of the few who likes Benson but just isn't ready to label him top 6? Bright future...but in reality, shouldn't he be in the ahl next year? Thinking long term of course..

[Rasmus_]

I don't trust Adams to make a move. He will claim the asking prices were too high and that albeit the extra early cap relief is meant for future re-signings they believe in what they have.  Aka his continual song and dance on believing in the process.  I approve of the culture shift and the drafting and development model.   But you need to make the playoffs this year or forfeit the right to make decisions.  This is your second head coaching hire.  You're entrenched on the hot seat.  Make it work or leave.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, oddoublee said:

Am I one of the few who likes Benson but just isn't ready to label him top 6? Bright future...but in reality, shouldn't he be in the ahl next year? Thinking long term of course..

Why would you send your 6th-highest scoring forward to the minors, especially when that forward was also one of your more responsible forwards defensively.

Im not sure where Zach Benson’s offensive ceiling is, but he’s already proven he’s an effective NHL 3rd-line player. How does demoting help team or player?

[Thorny]

14 minutes ago, oddoublee said:

Am I one of the few who likes Benson but just isn't ready to label him top 6? Bright future...but in reality, shouldn't he be in the ahl next year? Thinking long term of course..

Nah he’s an NHLer and pretty good one. I could see a good team penciling him for 3rd line next year instead of top 6, definitely 

[Archie Lee]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I haven’t been willing to pencil in any of benson Quinn or Peterka to the top 6 until this year, *it’s year 5*. 3 of the first 4 years of the Adams drought, 75% of it, Quinn and JJ were either not in the nhl at all, or rookies. And good teams have “top 6” quality players sometimes on the third line. I’ve even seen the Sabres do it. 

it’s not a red herring, it’s a fact

It is a fact, but what is the point?  What does it matter if you get your top 6 forwards from the draft or free agency or waivers or in a trade for picks and prospects or in a trade for an actual NHL player?  Look around the league.  There are good teams who don’t have a player in their top 6 who was acquired in a trade “for picks and prospects”. How did this become a talking point?  It’s not a thing. GM’s aren’t judged by how many top 6 forwards they pick up in trades for picks and prospects. Again, not defending Adams. I just don’t care how he improves the team. If we can get better by trading an actual young NHL player like Quinn or Benson, instead of picks and prospects, then do it. 
 

[thewookie1]

From Expected Buffalo,

" From what I understand, the Winnipeg Jets wanted four pieces from the Sabres in exchange for Nik Ehlers without an extension in place. Three of those four would have been considered top-tier assets. It’s a hefty price that I can make an argument for not paying."

I agree that's an asinine price, especially without an extension. 

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

It is a fact, but what is the point?  What does it matter if you get your top 6 forwards from the draft or free agency or waivers or in a trade for picks and prospects or in a trade for an actual NHL player?  Look around the league.  There are good teams who don’t have a player in their top 6 who was acquired in a trade “for picks and prospects”. How did this become a talking point?  It’s not a thing. GM’s aren’t judged by how many top 6 forwards they pick up in trades for picks and prospects. Again, not defending Adams. I just don’t care how he improves the team. If we can get better by trading an actual young NHL player like Quinn or Benson, instead of picks and prospects, then do it. 
 

I agree, but we aren’t talking about how we got em, we are talking about a lack of. I take your point that at times the top 6 has appeared to be filled adequately and even times it was filled adequately, but there’s also assuredly times there’s been a critical vacancy and we, again, are talking extremes with the sabres because the answer to how many is: Adams has gone O-fer.

We don’t even know if it’s solved, yet. it’s sort of just a “I’m a good Sabres fan” rule that we pencil in Quinn and Benson for true top 6 seasons, of production and availability

3 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

From Expected Buffalo,

" From what I understand, the Winnipeg Jets wanted four pieces from the Sabres in exchange for Nik Ehlers without an extension in place. Three of those four would have been considered top-tier assets. It’s a hefty price that I can make an argument for not paying."

I agree that's an asinine price, especially without an extension. 

I can make a much better argument for paying it

playoffs.

- - - 

would you do it for 2 significant assets? Savoie and next years 1st? 

Edited Wednesday at 04:33 AM by Thorny