Are the 24/25 Sabres a better team today then before the draft? Is this a playoff caliber roster?

[dudacek]

I don’t know that Kevyn Adams is finished.

I think it’s clear he has been trying to add a top 6 forward and he retains the space and the ammunition to do so should circumstances change. But the McLeod trade leaves him with 13 NHL forwards, 8 NHL defensemen and 3 NHL goalies; the roster may not be set, but it is full.

So I think we’ve reached a point where it’s OK to discuss the big picture of what’s been done.

I think the average NHL watcher is looking at Buffalo’s off-season with a big WTF?

Common perception runs something like this: this was a bad team in need of some serious upgrades to help its young talent over the top. Instead, they let one of their best goal-scorers walk for nothing and failed to replace him. They wasted a 2nd-round draft pick on a career minor-leaguer, overpaid for a fading free agent winger, signed a whole bunch of scrubs, then traded a recent top 10 pick who lit up the WHL for a bottom-six centre.

I think plenty of NHL fans are shaking their heads and saying “Buffalo gonna Buffalo” and I’m honestly surprised I haven’t seen more of that on here.

Sabrespace has no faith in Kevyn Adams, but I think our group is so thirsty for change, and for grit and fire that most are willfully overlooking the lack of actual fresh talent that was brought in.

I also think Sabrespace is smart enough to know what last year’s team needed most and see that there was a concerted effort made to address that. This forum and Kevyn Adams both understand the team can use another talented forward. But while the forum frets about Kevyn being unable to get anything done, I think Adams himself believes it’s about the only thing he didn’t get done.

I think there was a pronounced arrogance to Kevyn Adams’ offseason. He’s made a lot of bets that run counter to conventional wisdom:

• There’s arrogance in saying Bo Byram is the missing piece on the blue line despite being another puck-moving lefty.
• There’s arrogance in trading Casey Mittelstadt without having a replacement in place
• There’s arrogance in saying Beck Malenstyn is worth a 2nd-round pick
• There’s arrogance in deciding the team is better off by simply cutting Jeff Skinner
• There’s arrogance in giving up on Matt Savoie so early
• There’s arrogance in concluding Ryan McLeod is worth paying that kind of price
• There’s arrogance in saying Thompson/Tuch/Cozens/Quinn/Peterka can be the offensive core of a contender.
• And there’s arrogance in saying a hand-picked collection of the "right kind of 4th-liners" under the right kind of coach is all this team needs to get into the playoffs.

That kind of arrogance sounds to me like the recipe for disaster. But if I squint, I can also see a recipe in there for success. That recipe is entirely dependent on Adams being right in his evaluations of the players he’s picked.

Looking up and down this roster, how many players are you confident in saying you know exactly what they are going to bring next season?

For me, it’s not many.

And that means , in response to the thread question, I don't have a ***** clue.

Edited July 6 by dudacek

[Crusader1969]

Am I the only one who thinks Benson will be a productive 2nd line Centre?

if they are going to add anything, I would want a legit top 4 RHD 

still have plenty of ammo and cap space to acquire one...assuming there is a team willing to trade one 

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think plenty of NHL fans are shaking their heads and saying “Buffalo gonna Buffalo” and I’m honestly surprised I haven’t seen more of that on here.

Beware the red X 

7 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Am I the only one who thinks Benson will be a productive 2nd line Centre?

if they are going to add anything, I would want a legit top 4 RHD 

still have plenty of ammo and cap space to acquire one...assuming there is a team willing to trade one 

Benson? 

Thought he played only wing 

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Am I the only one who thinks Benson will be a productive 2nd line Centre?

if they are going to add anything, I would want a legit top 4 RHD 

still have plenty of ammo and cap space to acquire one...assuming there is a team willing to trade one 

Yes, because Zach Benson is a winger. 

[Crusader1969]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes, because Zach Benson is a winger. 

Yes, sorry too much sun I suppose 

2nd line winger 

it might not be realistic for him to double his production BUT with PP time and playing on a line with Cozens and Quinn - it would be possible 

Edited July 6 by Crusader1969

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Yes, sorry too much sun I suppose 

2nd line winger 

it might not be realistic for him to double his production BUT with PP time and playing on a line with Cozens and Quinn - it would be possible 

What if I told that Zach Benson had almost exactly as many even strength points as Bedard? I think he was like 3 less. 

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes, because Zach Benson is a winger. 

It’s funny, I checked elite prospects after he said that, and of course Benson also has “C” listed haha. 

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Yes, sorry too much sun I suppose 

2nd line winger 

it might not be realistic for him to double his production BUT with PP time and playing on a line with Cozens and Quinn - it would be possible 

I have him on the second line currently. But I’m running a more balanced set up. I also have this weird idea about shifting Quinn to C (as I’ve heard he’s played there before) and running the best bottom 6 in hockey, if we add someone like Ehlers

Peterka - Thompson - Tuch

Benson - Cozens - Ehlers

Zucker - Quinn - Greenway/Krebs

Malenstyn - McLeod - Aube-Kubel

…all 4 lines could potentially eat. 4th would feast 

[PerreaultForever]

The Hockey Guy (who I assume many of you have seen on youtube) just did a pretty accurate and objective assessment of the Sabres roster after the Savoie trade. 

I agree with most of what he says and that is probably how it shakes out unless we swap some of that R/L D around and move Byram up. Also if Benson doesn't fall back he might be up on 2 and Zucker on 3. 

Thing I hadn't thought about and really struck me is he lays out the age of everybody and we only have 1 guy 30+ on that starting lineup. I don't actually think that's a good thing but we shall see if speed and youth can come together and not need calm stability and leadership. 

I wish we would have added a guy like Bertuzzi instead of Zucker. I don't see the tenacious 6 man unit that comes out in the last minute with the goalie pulled to bang away and maybe get you that all important loser point. Bertuzzi might have given us some of that over Zucker and he would also bump down to what we want on line 3 easily if a prospect shines. 

Anyway, the roster is now structured better than it was and maybe you now have the makings of slots for future upgrades playing similar styles as it goes on. Makes more sense this way, just don't think it's enough. I think the video sums everything up well, even if it is a little overly diplomatic as this guy tends to be, 

[JohnC]

50 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t know that Kevyn Adams is finished.

I think it’s clear he has been trying to add a top 6 forward and he retains the space and the ammunition to do so should circumstances change. But the McLeod trade leaves him with 13 NHL forwards, 8 NHL defensemen and 3 NHL goalies; the roster may not be set, but it is full.

So I think we’ve reached a point where it’s OK to discuss the big picture of what’s been done.

I think the average NHL watcher is looking at Buffalo’s off-season with a big WTF?

Common perception runs something like this: this was a bad team in need of some serious upgrades to help its young talent over the top. Instead, they let one of their best goal-scorers walk for nothing and failed to replace him. They wasted a 2nd-round draft pick on a career minor-leaguer, overpaid for a fading free agent winger, signed a whole bunch of scrubs, then traded a recent top 10 pick who lit up the WHL for a bottom-six centre.

I think plenty of NHL fans are shaking their heads and saying “Buffalo gonna Buffalo” and I’m honestly surprised I haven’t seen more of that on here.

Sabrespace has no faith in Kevyn Adams, but I think our group is so thirsty for change, and for grit and fire that most are willfully overlooking the lack of actual fresh talent that was brought in.

I also think Sabrespace is smart enough to know what last year’s team needed most and see that there was a concerted effort made to address that. This forum and Kevyn Adams both understand the team can use another talented forward. But while the forum frets about Kevyn being unable to get anything done, I think Adams himself believes it’s about the only thing he didn’t get done.

I think there was a pronounced arrogance to Kevyn Adams’ offseason. He’s made a lot of bets that run counter to conventional wisdom:

• There’s arrogance in saying Bo Byram is the missing piece on the blue line despite being another puck-moving lefty.
• There’s arrogance in trading Casey Mittelstadt without having a replacement in place
• There’s arrogance in saying Beck Malenstyn is worth a 2nd-round pick
• There’s arrogance in deciding the team is better off by simply cutting Jeff Skinner
• There’s arrogance in giving up on Matt Savoie so early
• There’s arrogance in concluding Ryan McLeod is worth paying that kind of price
• There’s arrogance in saying Thompson/Tuch/Cozens/Quinn/Peterka can be the offensive core of a contender.
• And there’s arrogance in saying a hand-picked collection of the "right kind of 4th-liners" under the right kind of coach is all this team needs to get into the playoffs.

That kind of arrogance sounds to me like the recipe for disaster. But if I squint, I can also see a recipe in there for success. That recipe is entirely dependent on Adams being right in his evaluations of the players he’s picked.

Looking up and down this roster, how many players are you confident in saying you know exactly what they are going to bring next season?

For me, it’s not many.

And that means , in response to the thread question, I don't have a ***** clue.

It's surprising that you didn't mention the goaltending. If UPL and whoever gives us solid to good backstopping, then the prognosis looks much better. If it slides, then we are in trouble. 

In general, the added pieces basically reconstituted the lower lines. I'm not going to scoff at that alteration because it directly related to our soft brand of hockey. It's obvious that the GM believes that he had enough in-house talent to staff the top two lines. I wish he would have added another top six forward. We shall see. I'm  more optimistic about our competitiveness after the flourish of activity was completed. Is it enough to get us in the playoffs? I'm not sure. 

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It's surprising that you didn't mention the goaltending. If UPL and whoever gives us solid to good backstopping, then the prognosis looks much better. If it slides, then we are in trouble. 

In general, the added pieces basically reconstituted the lower lines. I'm not going to scoff at that alteration because it directly related to our soft brand of hockey. It's obvious that the GM believes that he had enough in-house talent to staff the top two lines. I wish he would have added another top six forward. We shall see. I'm  more optimistic about our competitiveness after the flourish of activity was completed. Is it enough to get us in the playoffs? I'm not sure. 

It might not be that he’s sure they have enough in the top 6, but rather the acknowledgment we need supplementation elsewhere, regardless. 

Adding a top 6 would put is on a real good spot to break drought but what we’ve done at least keep it within realistic shouting distance

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It might not be that he’s sure they have enough in the top 6, but rather the acknowledgment we need supplementation elsewhere, regardless. 

Adding a top 6 would put is on a real good spot to break drought but what we’ve done at least keep it within realistic shouting distance

You and I are in accord on the importance of adding a top 6 forward. It just seems to me that if the GM did so, it would positively impact two lines, the line the player is added to and the line in which a player gets dropped. My sense (opinion) is that the GM is adamant in not blocking a few of our better prospects in Rochester, most notably Kulich. TBD. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You and I are in accord on the importance of adding a top 6 forward. It just seems to me that if the GM did so, it would positively impact two lines, the line the player is added to and the line in which a player gets dropped. My sense (opinion) is that the GM is adamant in not blocking a few of our better prospects in Rochester, most notably Kulich. TBD. 

Kulich is already blocked. He's not better than Benson, jjp, Quinn or Tuch. He's not getting a center spot with Tage and Cozens around

[SabreFinn]

33 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Kulich is already blocked. He's not better than Benson, jjp, Quinn or Tuch. He's not getting a center spot with Tage and Cozens around

This is an interesting point. What happens if Kulich is better than a 5milj Zucker?? My feeling is he has to be close to that after this offseason.

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I have him on the second line currently. But I’m running a more balanced set up. I also have this weird idea about shifting Quinn to C (as I’ve heard he’s played there before) and running the best bottom 6 in hockey, if we add someone like Ehlers

Peterka - Thompson - Tuch

Benson - Cozens - Ehlers

Zucker - Quinn - Greenway/Krebs

Malenstyn - McLeod - Aube-Kubel

…all 4 lines could potentially eat. 4th would feast 

Why the fascination with Ehlers? I know it's not just you.   I think he's a fine player but the be-all-end-all

 

 

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Kulich is already blocked. He's not better than Benson, jjp, Quinn or Tuch. He's not getting a center spot with Tage and Cozens around

I wonder if they move him to the wing this year in Rochester? 
 

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Why the fascination with Ehlers? I know it's not just you.   I think he's a fine player but the be-all-end-all

 

 

Well I said “or someone like” so the be all end all thing is sort of erroneous.

He’s really good, he’s really fast, he fits a need, and I have a certain level of bias from probably seeing more of him than most due to proximity 

Edited July 6 by Thorny

[Crusader1969]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Well I said “or someone like” so the be all end all thing is sort of erroneous.

He’s really good, he’s really fast, he fits a need, and I have a certain level of bias from probably seeing more of him than most due to proximity 

hockey news has a interesting article about him today, you might want to check it out   Jets have an interesting decision to make soon 

The price to get him would be really steep.   
id like to see how Benson does with Quinn and Cozens before I start thinking about trading Kulich and Östlund.  
 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Kulich is already blocked. He's not better than Benson, jjp, Quinn or Tuch. He's not getting a center spot with Tage and Cozens around

What happens if there is an injury to Tage or Cozens? What center moves up from the AHL? And what happens if any wingers from the top two lines get hurt? Right now, he would be one of the first players on the Amerks to move up. And that's how the GM wants it. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

• There’s arrogance in....

That kind of arrogance sounds to me like the recipe for disaster.

GM Sheevyn's overconfidence is his weakness.

 

However, the roster finally has a decent construction, barring injuries. And as importantly, it has a theme: it is predicated on speed. Ruff likes speed.

[Doohickie]

22 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Ruff likes speed.

[Weave]

20 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

This is an interesting point. What happens if Kulich is better than a 5milj Zucker?? My feeling is he has to be close to that after this offseason.

What do you mean what happens? You flip Zucker at the deadline to somebody who wants a winger for the playoffs even if you have to retain salary to do it. You get another asset back for him and even if you are still in the hunt you go with Kulich. Hardly a problem or an issue. 

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

What happens if there is an injury to Tage or Cozens? What center moves up from the AHL? And what happens if any wingers from the top two lines get hurt? Right now, he would be one of the first players on the Amerks to move up. And that's how the GM wants it. 

Krebs is currently your first injury sub. But after that yes. 

[Doohickie]

7 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Why the fascination with Ehlers? I know it's not just you.   I think he's a fine player but the be-all-end-all

Reports/rumors make him one of the best players available via trade right now, and Buffalo has been cited as an interesting trading partner.  I don't see Kevyn giving more for Ehlers than he got for Eichel and the rumor is they want 4 first round equivs.  Kevyn won't go that high.

[Doohickie]

So yeah.... what numbers do you think the new guys will wear?

• Zucker was 16, retired by Sabres (Pat LaFontaine).  Zucker has only ever worn 16
• McLeod was 71, last Sabre to wear 71 was Olofsson.  McLeod has also worn 70
• Malenstyn was 47, last Sabre to wear 47 was Malcolm Subban.  Malenstyn has only ever worn 47
• Lafferty was 18, retired by Sabres (Danny Gare).  Lafferty has also worn 37, 24, 28
• Aube-Kubel was 96, last Sabre to wear 96 was Anders Bjork Bjork Bjork.  Aube-Kubel has also worn 62, 16

Zucker and Lafferty will wear have to pick new numbers  Do you think any of the guys who can keep their numbers will change to something else?

My guesses are:

• Zucker:  61
• McLeod:  71
• Malenstyn:  17 (I have a feeling 47 was assigned to him but who knows?)
• Lafferty:  28
• Aube-Kubel:  96

Edited July 7 by Doohickie