Are the 24/25 Sabres a better team today then before the draft? Is this a playoff caliber roster?

[Curt]

Not really better.  Kind of treading water.  Worse top 6, probably better bottom 6, probably better goaltending.  Maybe a little better overall due to internal development.

It’s not enough.  The roster needs at least one of a top 6 wing or middle 6 C.  Ideally both, but that seems unlikely at this point.

[Weave]

The question shouldn’t be “are they better than last year”.  It should be “are they better relative to the teams that they will be fighting for that 6-7-8 playoff spot”.

[Wyldnwoody44]

I expect a miss by 10 points. We may not be out by December but I would be pretty surprised to make the playoffs with this roster. There's still time to add but I don't think KA is an adequate GM. With someone more experienced at the helm, I do think this team could have some potential. 

The ability to be shrewd and calculated are needed when building a team, KA possesses none of these abilities. He's good at placating a rich, stingy owner. That's it, that's his claim to fame. 

Wake me up when we address players with actual skill for the top 6. 

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, Mr Peabody said:

Better 4th line but our issue last year was our center spine.  Which without Mitts is now worse. 

But Mitts wasn't here before the draft.

1 hour ago, RochesterExpat said:

I'm starting to question whether Adams wants to be here.

He only has to keep one person happy.

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is the team better? Is this a playoff caliber roster?

Playoffs-caliber? No. Not in this division. Because while the Sabres are better roster than they were on 6/27 (or even 4/15), so are a bunch of their primary competitors in the East.

Is the Sabres roster better than 4 days ago? Yes.

All the core pieces have another year of growth and development. The coach is better. Levi is better than Comrie.

As to the moves:

Would I rather have Lafferty/Krebs than Jost/Krebs? Yes. Yes, I would. (Yes, we all agree still a glaring hole at C.)

Malenstyn is an upgrade from Girgensons. Aube-Kubel is probably a downgrade from Okposo's all-around game/savvy, but his wheels probably make up for it, honestly. Especially over the course of 82 games.

Zucker is an improvement over VO/3rd-line-version of Skinner. (Remember, JJP already replaced Skinner in the top 6.)

And now, if a rookie wants to make the roster, then they're going to have to outplay a whole of proven vets with established roles. Not VO (whom HCDG had lost all faith in) or waivers-claim Jost.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

14 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

And now, if a rookie wants to make the roster, then they're going to have to outplay a whole of proven vets with established roles. Not VO (whom HCDG had lost all faith in) or waivers-claim Jost.

 

except Krebs of course! 🙂

My guess is that Savoie or Kulich maybe better than Krebs is right now.  

Edited July 1 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

57 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

 

And now, if a rookie wants to make the roster, then they're going to have to outplay a whole of proven vets with established roles. Not VO (whom HCDG had lost all faith in) or waivers-claim Jost.

 

This is kinda rose-tinted I think.

Aube-kubel has never played a full season in the NHL and spent time in the minors last year. Malenstyn is a career minor-leaguer who needs to prove he can repeat.

Even Lafferty has had healthy scratches.

Edited July 2 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, dudacek said:

This is kinda rose-tinted I think.

Aube-kubel has never played a full season in the NHL and spent time in the minors last year. Malenstyn is a career minor-leaguer who needs to prove he can compete.

Even Lafferty has had healthy scratches.

So you basically confirming @Thorny's post that keeping Skinner with 3 replacement level players would be better than the bottom of the barrel acquisitions by Adams again this season?

[CallawaySabres]

I know this is a serious question and yes, they are probably better. They will be more entertaining to watch but this is still a bottom feeder in the NHL when you look at the 16 playoff teams. They are still at LEAST a year (and probably more like 2) away from sniffing 8th place.

There is a dark cloud over this team and I barely feel any better about this coming year than I have over the last 10. It just sucks to be such a hockey crazy city and have nothing to look forward to year after year. At least they are not getting my money for the upcoming season. 

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So you basically confirming @Thorny's post that keeping Skinner with 3 replacement level players would be better than the bottom of the barrel acquisitions by Adams again this season?

Honestly - I know arguing is what we all do for fun but forest through the trees on this: I think we’d all agree that the fact it’s even a debate if we are improved *at all* is enough of a sticking point, considering the OUTRIGHT improvement we deemed necessary at the *very least* coming in 

we might be a bit better or maybe a bit worse, but this was supposed to be, from KA’s own admission, a big offseason 

doesn’t jive 

he’s failing or failed or there’s more still coming and it’ll lead to success. Who knows, but it’s worrisome 

[PotentPowerPlay21]

I think the fans should start asking, "Is this a legitimate Stanley Cup contender in Buffalo?" I don't think you get there shopping on the clearance rack or bargain bin.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think the optimist would say with better coaching (a given) coupled with good goaltending this team could be a playoff team.

Last season the Sabres decreased their goals allowed by 56 goals.  That is nearly a 20% drop year over year.  In the last 3 years the Sabres' differential went from -58 to -4 to +2. 

Unfortunately the sticking point last season was the drop in goals from 296 to 246.  Moving on from Mitts and Skinner with only Zucker as a replacement so far is definitely not an offensive improvement.  Asking for TNT, Tuch and Cozens to all rebound coupled with continued growth from JJP, Quinn and Benson is asking a lot without having a legit 3rd scoring line to pick up needed slack at times.  

Edited July 2 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

This isn't a playoff team and Kevyn Adams to this point in the offseason is negligent. 

[dudacek]

To the thread question, we’re definitely better than before the draft, but it’s hard to say we’re a playoff team as constituted.

I think we’re less talented than last year, but maybe better prepared for the rigours of an 82-game schedule and the grind of expectation?

Part of that is the coach, part of that is the roster changes aimed at giving the coach what he needs to implement his game plan, and part of it is what last season taught a very young team.

I think our defence corps is possibly the most talented this franchise has ever assembled. I know there are eyes rolling at that post, but a healthy Samuelsson, an older, stronger Power, and a highly motivated, comfortable Byram along with an elite Dahlin has a chance to be special.

UPL looked real good last year and Levi is a talent.

I think the back-end has questions to answer, but I believe it is playoff worthy.

The forwards have questions from top to bottom. I think Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Quinn and Peterka have a chance to be dangerous, but I’m not confident of that.

I think the rest has a chance to be fast and hard to play against, but I’m not confident of that either.

And I really want another centre.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This isn't a playoff team and Kevyn Adams to this point in the offseason is negligent. 

So you agree that Adams sucks! 🙂

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So you basically confirming @Thorny's post that keeping Skinner with 3 replacement level players would be better than the bottom of the barrel acquisitions by Adams again this season?

Not really.

I think regardless of the talent level up front we needed to change the makeup of the forward group.

We’ve done that, and seemingly with the right types of players. I’d rather this than status quo.

I just don’t know if they are right players, or what’s been done is enough.

Edited July 2 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, dudacek said:

I think regardless of the talent level up front we needed to change the makeup of the forward group.

This is fair and I agree to an extent.  We needed more guys who give a legit effort every night and guys like Lafferty and Zucker are those types of guys.

What remains inexcusable is not finding a quality center to add to this mix.   

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is fair and I agree to an extent.  We needed more guys who give a legit effort every night and guys like Lafferty and Zucker are those types of guys.

What remains inexcusable is not finding a quality center to add to this mix.   

Maybe they'll get Adam Henrique

[Night Train]

 Lindy and a new system is what they are banking on. No predictions. Adams job is on the line. 

 

[Archie Lee]

If this is our team, no further additions of consequence, then we will be projected as a bottom 10 finisher and it will be impossible for me to argue otherwise.  I'm fine with the changes made to line 4, but in my view we changed the make-up and style of the 4th line more than we did the likely game to game results (goals for and against). Add in that Krebs is now our 3C and that Benson is moving up in the line-up to replace Skinner, and it is hard to argue we made the bottom 6 better.  We added a physical element the team needs, to be sure, but if we have a better bottom-six today than we did going into last season, I would say it is marginally so.

I was very much near the lead in arguing for a Skinner buyout, but that was always on the assumption that we would spend most of the saved money on improving our depth. We didn't do that today. Barring substantial turnaround seasons from one of our top 3 forwards, we don't have a bonafide and indisputable 1st line player, we don't have a 3rd line player who can be expected to effectively move into the top 6 for a lengthy stretch, and we don't have a 4th line player who you would want playing higher in the line-up for an extended period.  We might have a prospect or two who is ready for promotion to the NHL, but that is not a certainty. We missed an opportunity today to push players down in the line-up (Greenway/Krebs) that would help prevent us from floundering when injuries hit and our depth is tested.  We are not good enough in our top 6 to have no upward mobility in the bottom half of our forward group.

Adams is betting that Ruff is a better coach than Granato (over the last 3 season, the Sabres averaged 83 points per season, the Devils 85), that there are major bounce back seasons coming for several players (Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Dahlin, Samuelsson), that others are going to further emerge (Quinn, Benson, Krebs, Power, Bryson, Levi), and that there won't be significant regression in others (Peterka, Luukkonen).  There is not much tangible here.

I'm an optimist.  From here I hope for the best. I am open to the possibility and hopeful that most of the things that have to happen for this team to take a big step forward, will indeed happen. Nobody, outside of the most optimistic Sabre fan, could reasonably predict that today though. 

 

Edited July 2 by Archie Lee

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Maybe they'll get Adam Henrique

Does he skate well enough?  The other name I thought of is JG Pageau.  I think the NYI still need to trim payroll with some RFAs to re-sign and Mayfield coming off LTIR.

[Rasmus_]

They still need to clean up down the middle and add another right handed shot defensemen that isn't a 7th. 

[Thorner]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is fair and I agree to an extent.  We needed more guys who give a legit effort every night and guys like Lafferty and Zucker are those types of guys.

What remains inexcusable is not finding a quality center to add to this mix.   

The forwards needed help when we had Casey. They definitely needed help + once we moved him. I do think we are at the ~ the same place with the forwards re: amount of help needed as when the season ended 

Adding another good forward is sort of the bare mimimim. That replaces Casey 

Then you are relaying on internal improvement and the identity swap of line 4 (plus Byram). We’d really need a Casey replacement, and another forward, to improve on the F unit we entered into last season with 

Edited July 2 by Thorny

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

The real question is how much better we are with Dahlin, Power, Cozens, Quinn and Peterka being a year older.  Doesn't seem like that is being brought up much at all.

Good news is we replaced Skinner, Vic, Kyle and Zemgus with players who play a much harder game. 

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

If this is our team, no further additions of consequence, then we will be projected as a bottom 10 finisher and it will be impossible for me to argue otherwise.  I'm fine with the changes made to line 4, but in my view we changed the make-up and style of the 4th line more than we did the likely game to game results (goals for and against). Add in that Krebs is now our 3C and that Benson is moving up in the line-up to replace Skinner, and it is hard to argue we made the bottom 6 better.  We added a physical element the team needs, to be sure, but if we have a better bottom-six today than we did going into last season I would say it is marginally so.

I was very much near the lead in arguing for a Skinner buyout, but that was always on the assumption that we would spend most of the saved money on improving our depth. We didn't do that today. Barring a substantial turnaround seasons from one of our top 3 forwards, we don't have a bonafide and indisputable 1st line player, we don't have a 3rd line player who can be expected to effectively move into the top 6 for a lengthy stretch, and we don't have a 4th line player who you would want playing higher in the line-up for an extended period.  We might have a prospect or two who is ready for promotion to the NHL, but that is not a certainty.

Adams is betting that Ruff is a better coach than Granato (over the last 3 season, the Sabres averaged 83 points per season, the Devils 85), that there are major bounce back seasons coming for several players (Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Dahlin, Samuelsson), that others are going to further emerge (Quinn, Benson, Krebs, Power, Bryson, Levi), and that there won't be significant regression in others (Peterka, Luukkonen).  There is not much tangible here.

I'm an optimist.  From here I hope for the best. I am open to the possibility and hopeful that most of the things that have to happen for this team to take a bit step forward, will indeed happen. Nobody, outside of the most optimistic Sabre fan, could reasonably predict that today though. 

 

This is very well said. Your points about the 4th line sort of brought home to me it’s tough to put TOO much stock in the improvement we’ll get there, when we literally, of course, improved the line that plays the least on the team. We didn’t just “happen” to need the players easiest to get.  4th line improvement was sort of the expected focus after elsewhere was addressed. I mean ideally we’d be bumping down players TO the 4th line, not spending assets on filling it out from afar 

The additions there ARE good. But there range of affect on the outcome isn’t that substantial relative to other areas that needing addressing 

Even the bottom 6 itself.. its weakest spot is the most important role: 3C