Free Agent Frenzy 2024

[thewookie1]

38 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'd give that to Quinn and Peterka right now, plus the tax difference.

I'd be a tad torn at 6x6mil but wouldn't get too angry; would be more concerned about Quinn's availability 

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Anton Lundell signs a 6 year 5 Million Dollar AAV extension with Florida 

Stupid Florida tax advantage. Although they are certainly now in a bit of a cap crunch.

Granted some useful idiot team will bail them out for no apparent reason

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, rickshaw said:

It sure is looking like player and or other teams don’t want to come to or deal with Buffalo in good faith.

KA should definitely try to make trades but getting fleeced isn’t the way to go about it. I wonder how much Jack’s crap affects what’s happening. 
 

It was better when there weren’t online clauses and it was the Wild West for trades. 

How they dealt with Jack definitely affects perception. Hopefully they accounted for the perception fallout league wide

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Anton Lundell signs a 6 year 5 Million Dollar AAV extension with Florida 

Damn, good one 

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, stinky finger said:

Is your faith in KA or that Pegs will procure a real GM?

Neither seems like a good bet.

I have 0 doubts Lindy Ruff will get this team in to the playoffs.

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, rickshaw said:

KA should definitely try to make trades but getting fleeced isn’t the way to go about it. I wonder how much Jack’s crap affects what’s happening. 

Eichel endlessly haunts us it seems.

Feels as if nothing we could of done with Eichel would of worked in our favor.

You give him his surgery, Buffalo holds all the risk and then he has to play for you again to prove he's healthy all the while dealing with a NTC coming up at year's end.

You could just trade him for peanuts and set back the team a decade but avoid the drama

We chose to play hard ball and get some good assets but at least some teams are salty about us not just taking an L.

 

It feels like sometimes we as a team are just supposed to take the flak and disappointment and be happy with it because we have a team.

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Eichel endlessly haunts us it seems.

Feels as if nothing we could of done with Eichel would of worked in our favor.

You give him his surgery, Buffalo holds all the risk and then he has to play for you again to prove he's healthy all the while dealing with a NTC coming up at year's end.

You could just trade him for peanuts and set back the team a decade but avoid the drama

We chose to play hard ball and get some good assets but at least some teams are salty about us not just taking an L.

 

It feels like sometimes we as a team are just supposed to take the flak and disappointment and be happy with it because we have a team.

You are using a hindsight argument. Fair or not, doesn’t make sense to say “nothing we could of done”. Had we let him get the surgery, we’d have no bad buzz, and he would have been fine 

Having to LTIR him was the worst case scenario even IN hindsight and returns so far suggest that’s a significantly lesser evil between that and the damage it seems to have done to our rep to proceed as we did 

The logic of Adams’ position that he made the decision with was sort of proved irrelevant: none of it mattered if the league was going to perceive we mistreated him and that’s absolutely what happened.

We tanked for the guy, failed to build around him, told him we wanted to do a long form rebuild when he was entering his prime, so he asked for a trade, and then denied that franchise player his preferred surgery, and that was the decision of a first time, harbourcenter promoted GM, who hasn’t made the playoffs and averages 76 points a season 

I mean, it’s not GREAT optics 

Edited Wednesday at 05:01 PM by Thorny

[North Buffalo]

Any interest

[thewookie1]

46 minutes ago, Thorny said:

You are using a hindsight argument. Fair or not, doesn’t make sense to say “nothing we could of done”. Had we let him get the surgery, we’d have no bad buzz, and he would have been fine 

Having to LTIR him was the worst case scenario even IN hindsight and returns so far suggest that’s a significantly lesser evil between that and the damage it seems to have done to our rep to proceed as we did 

The logic of Adams’ position that he made the decision with was sort of proved irrelevant: none of it mattered if the league was going to perceive we mistreated him and that’s absolutely what happened.

We tanked for the guy, failed to build around him, told him we wanted to do a long form rebuild when he was entering his prime, so he asked for a trade, and then denied that franchise player his preferred surgery, and that was the decision of a first time, harbourcenter promoted GM, who hasn’t made the playoffs and averages 76 points a season 

I mean, it’s not GREAT optics 

Well our team doctor didn't approve of it either, and he's a rather well known Sports doctor and famous for the whole Kevin Everett event in 2007. If he didn't feel comfortable with it and since this was the first of its kind in the NHL I can't exactly fault the concerns. Additionally, there were multiple teams that were on our side in the ordeal that wouldn't have let him get the surgery either. It wasn't exactly a routine surgery commonly done around the league. Just look at how Patrick Kane had to fight his surgery's results in order to get signed again due Backstrom, Kesler and Jankowski. Most NHL teams are naturally very cautious with any degree of risk.

No bad buzz, well three other scenarios could of played out:

1. Surgery is successful and he comes back as a lame duck and then is traded at slightly better value(he still would have lost value due to the injury + surgery long term unpredictability. (Could of happened had the doctor approved of it)

2. Surgery is successful but takes longer to recover from after a few opinions are garnered. Team doctors are incensed by the team siding with some random out of league guy over their expertise. Eichel returns late into December or January and the team gets lowballed by concerned teams knowing we have to trade him before the deadline to avoid his NTC.

3. Surgery is successful but isn't NHL viable forcing him to LTIRetire, Sabres are quite literally screwed as their entire tank was for nothing and we are left to scramble. Additionally the team doctors are proven right and create a stir in the sports medicine field and teams league wide look into the viability of player's choosing their treatments.

1 minute ago, North Buffalo said:

Any interest

Tarasenko is the only Top 6 guy left.

Van Riemsdyk would signal Zucker was meant for the Top 6

Pavelski has all but retired at this point

[Wyldnwoody44]

Number 13 on that list... We should kick the tires eh.... Stanley cup winning pedigree. 

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well our team doctor didn't approve of it either, and he's a rather well known Sports doctor and famous for the whole Kevin Everett event in 2007. If he didn't feel comfortable with it and since this was the first of its kind in the NHL I can't exactly fault the concerns. Additionally, there were multiple teams that were on our side in the ordeal that wouldn't have let him get the surgery either. It wasn't exactly a routine surgery commonly done around the league. Just look at how Patrick Kane had to fight his surgery's results in order to get signed again due Backstrom, Kesler and Jankowski. Most NHL teams are naturally very cautious with any degree of risk.

No bad buzz, well three other scenarios could of played out:

1. Surgery is successful and he comes back as a lame duck and then is traded at slightly better value(he still would have lost value due to the injury + surgery long term unpredictability. (Could of happened had the doctor approved of it)

2. Surgery is successful but takes longer to recover from after a few opinions are garnered. Team doctors are incensed by the team siding with some random out of league guy over their expertise. Eichel returns late into December or January and the team gets lowballed by concerned teams knowing we have to trade him before the deadline to avoid his NTC.

3. Surgery is successful but isn't NHL viable forcing him to LTIRetire, Sabres are quite literally screwed as their entire tank was for nothing and we are left to scramble. Additionally the team doctors are proven right and create a stir in the sports medicine field and teams league wide look into the viability of player's choosing their treatments.

Tarasenko is the only Top 6 guy left.

Van Riemsdyk would signal Zucker was meant for the Top 6

Pavelski has all but retired at this point

All of those options are significantly better than what we got if the “players won’t come here” narrative is as true as people say. That’s my point. Options 1 and 2 are absolutely fine and again, the (small!) risk of him being LTIR’d forever and Pegula’s yacht being affected and us losing Tuch was easily easily worth the risk considering the *much more likely* perception hit we demonstrably took 

This fallout was always likely and predictable. It wasn’t really like the surgery would break him. And again, that’s STILL a way easier result to deal with that being blackballed 

the Eichel situation wasn’t favourable for us. We don’t need to litigate it again. We did not manage it well: that much history has already recorded 

Edited Wednesday at 06:34 PM by Thorny

[Archie Lee]

10 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Any interest

By my assessment we have space for two NHL level veterans still.  Could be two forwards or one forward and one D. Atkinson has signed with Tampa and I'll rule out Pavelski as retired even if not yet official. Of the other 13 on the list I would have zero interest in Hoffman, Zadina (maybe on a two-way), Okposo, and Wheeler.  The rest I would be ok with, specific to a role.  Schultz or Shattenkirk with Bryson on the 4th pair?  Take a low-risk chance on Pacioretty on the wing with Thompson/Tuch or Cozens/Zucker?  Sure.  As for Roslovic and Tarasenko, I don't know why we wouldn't pursue those two unless:  1.) We are still thinking we will get a bigger fish; or  2.) We have actually reached our internal cap projection (once we get our RFAs signed).

Edited Wednesday at 06:35 PM by Archie Lee

[shrader]

4 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Number 13 on that list... We should kick the tires eh.... Stanley cup winning pedigree. 

On a side note, they did add a cup winner in Aube-Kubel. I guess he and Byram are going to have to carry that torch. 

[thewookie1]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

All of those options are significantly better than what we got if the “players won’t come here” narrative is as true as people say. That’s my point. Options 1 and 2 are absolutely fine and again, the (small!) risk of him being LTIR’d forever and Pegula’s yacht being affected and us losing Tuch was easily easily worth the risk considering the *much more likely* perception hit we demonstrably took 

This fallout was always likely and predictable. It wasn’t really like the surgery would break him. And again, that’s STILL a way easier result to deal with that being blackballed 

the Eichel situation wasn’t favourable for us. We don’t need to litigate it again. We did not manage it well: that much history has already recorded 

Well how exactly does one fix it? Chicago was guilty of far far worse and yet look at them.

[Thorny]

Don’t really see Zucker in the top 6. Even the franchise said it I believe when we got him, I think they mentioned bottom 6 specifically. I’d bet Benson gets first shot, but who knows

Peterka - Thompson - Tuch

Benson - Cozens - Quinn

Zucker - X - Greenway

Malenstyn - Lafferty - Aube-Kubel

 

…lines 1 and 4 look pretty set to me. Middle 6 is where we need work. And from the outside, too. That missing X, at least, to allow for a “get the puck to the net” 3rd line that’s difficult to play against

If Benson sophomore slumps maybe we get 

Zucker - Cozens - Quinn

Benson - X - Greenway

..in the middle 6. Rendering the “X” addition even more important 

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Any interest

I'd give Pavelski as much money as I could for 1 year. He's a pros pro. 

6 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well how exactly does one fix it? Chicago was guilty of far far worse and yet look at them.

Win. 

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well how exactly does one fix it? Chicago was guilty of far far worse and yet look at them.

F*ck Chicago. Evergreen.

Just have to make the playoffs.

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd give Pavelski as much money as I could for 1 year. He's a pros pro. 

Win. 

If he was willing to come here, I'd be all for it.

How do you win if players won't come to you?

Edited Wednesday at 06:47 PM by thewookie1

[LGR4GM]

Just now, thewookie1 said:

How do you win if players won't come to you?

You'll hate this, but you draft well. Have a good locker room culture. 

[Archie Lee]

3 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well how exactly does one fix it? Chicago was guilty of far far worse and yet look at them.

The Blackhawks gave term to Bertuzzi (4 x $5.5) and Teravainan (3 x $5.4).  I doubt we offered a 3-4 year term to anyone in free agency and I'm unconvinced that "Buffalo" would have been a factor had we been willing to offer similar or slightly better term or AAV to certain well-targeted players.

[thewookie1]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

You'll hate this, but you draft well. Have a good locker room culture. 

We seemingly have done well in both. Although the locker room needs a bit more win-minded culture versus happy-go-lucky.

[SabreFinn]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Anton Lundell signs a 6 year 5 Million Dollar AAV extension with Florida 

That was a good deal for Florida. Damn.

[Pimlach]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

All of those options are significantly better than what we got if the “players won’t come here” narrative is as true as people say. That’s my point. Options 1 and 2 are absolutely fine and again, the (small!) risk of him being LTIR’d forever and Pegula’s yacht being affected and us losing Tuch was easily easily worth the risk considering the *much more likely* perception hit we demonstrably took 

This fallout was always likely and predictable. It wasn’t really like the surgery would break him. And again, that’s STILL a way easier result to deal with that being blackballed 

the Eichel situation wasn’t favourable for us. We don’t need to litigate it again. We did not manage it well: that much history has already recorded 

Please remember that good players with tread on their tires did not want to come here before the Eichel trade.  
 

@thewookie1, let Eichel go.  He is gone.  Our problems today reside at the feet of Terry and Kevyn.  Their action or inaction speaks louder than anything they could say.   

[WhenWillItEnd66]

11 minutes ago, SabreFinn said:

That was a good deal for Florida. Damn.

When you are a good team,  players will come for cheaper to be part of something good

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Please remember that good players with tread on their tires did not want to come here before the Eichel trade.  
 

@thewookie1, let Eichel go.  He is gone.  Our problems today reside at the feet of Terry and Kevyn.  Their action or inaction speaks louder than anything they could say.   

There seems to be a noted, more extreme shift in narrative in the last few years of Adams tenure, though, no? So either it’s gotten worse, or they are relying on it as a purported excuse more 

[LTS]

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-hughes-denied-signing-impact-players-2024/

Interesting and reads a lot like Buffalo

Quote

“I’m not worried about attracting people here, quite frankly I think if we were prepared to meet the term of the deals, we would have a player here. My experience representing players is at the end of the day, hockey players are happy when hockey is going well.”

On how hard it is to attract players... to Montreal.  So perhaps it's not a Buffalo thing?

Quote

If we were prepared to match the length of contracts that some of these players were getting, we would have had players here but at the end of the day, we’re sitting here trying to project into the future right and as we’ve said all along, we won’t do something that will provide a short-term gain at the expense of our long-term plan. If we commit too long into the future to a player and we end up blocking young players from moving their way up, then I think we’re doing a disservice to what we’re trying to accomplish.”

Quote

We went into it knowing the odds were long, hoping that we could prevail, and convince people that this was an exciting place to play with I guess inferior financial terms. I’m not worried about that, when we get to the point that we feel it’s time to really do something in free agency and we’re ready to compete in terms of the contract.”

At least they can put "exciting place to play" in their offer.  Not sure that Buffalo can pull of the same story, certainly the arena ain't much to look at.

[Thorny]

Speaking of Ehlers, I wonder if the reason the Jets and Sabres seem, at least anecdotally to me, to link up for trades so often is because we are both dealing from a position of similar weakness re: attractive destination. After all, Winnipeg is always listed as even more undesired than Buffalo according to the league’s players. We are sort of kin in that sense 

While having these conversations, we should consider picking their management’s brains re: how they managed to field a playoff team 7 times since they returned in 2011, with hardly anyone but their homegrowns willing to sign, and even then sometimes not (Dustin Byfuglien, etc etc)  

Chevy has been pretty creative overall 

Edited Wednesday at 07:17 PM by Thorny