Sabres Draft #14: Konsta Helenius, 5'11" 189lb Center

[PerreaultForever]

12 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

 

My one question is, when does it become impossible to achieve the 1st?

For instance, Ehlers with extension was supposed to be a prospect and a 1st

Would you still do it for 3 top prospects without an extension. I worry that's what going on.

Well, look no further than Utah and L.A.   Some teams get things done, some don't. 

[#freejame]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well, look no further than Utah and L.A.   Some teams get things done, some don't. 

To be fair, if you’re Tampa are those really guys you want to keep in your division? 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, #freejame said:

To be fair, if you’re Tampa are those really guys you want to keep in your division? 

That's likely true, so you'd have to make a deal they couldn't refuse in terms of value but all we know for sure is he was on the block and he was traded and we got some jag from Washington instead. 

[LGR4GM]

Biggest draft steals of round 1

FCHockey KYLE PEREIRA

KONSTA HELENIUS, C, BUFFALO SABRES

"Shades of Zach Benson, the Buffalo Sabres yet again drafted a player that was highly thought of but fell too far on draft day. Like Benson, Konsta Helenius could challenge for a roster spot right out of camp next fall, and will be given every opportunity to earn it. Helenius was FCHockey’s fifth-ranked prospect, sliding nine spots down from that spot. What makes him such a great prospect is his incredible intelligence and mature game. He plays a pro-style game already, having success against men in Finland already. But, unlike most labeled as a pro-style prospect, he does not lack dynamism."

"I think his game without the puck has improved over the course of the season and he also does small but important things like screens, box outs, masks and loops for passes correctly and at the right times,” FCHockey scout Arttu Myllymaki said. “He is arguably one of the most talented players in the 2024 draft.”

there's other listed and it's a good read

 

[PerreaultForever]

Of course he will challenge for a roster spot. Adams will make sure there's no one there to block him. 

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

... there's a very real world where Helenius, beats Krebs in camp. It's a long shot but not impossible. 

Everyone starts with a clean slate with a new coach coming in.  He will say that jobs are open.  

[nfreeman]

13 hours ago, RochesterExpat said:

Who in the pipeline does Helenius make expendable? 
 

Östlund or Rosen? Kulich is a different role and Savoie has a higher ceiling—at least on paper.

I think they’re all available in a package for a good veteran forward coming back. 
 

13 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

You quoted Ostland.  He just got to North America during the AHL playoffs and was all tourney at the Worlds shortly before that.  How about we wait and see on him?

OTOH, we could say that about each of these kids.  They will probably only trade 1 of them this summer (if even that) and I’m looking forward to seeing each of them develop.   Each is promising in his own way.  

[That Aud Smell]

18 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

... there's a very real world where Helenius, beats Krebs in camp. It's a long shot but not impossible. 

I hit a sad emoji for the idea of Helenius making the team as a draft year rookie, but I won’t hit a sad emoji for Krebs being beaten out of one of the 4 centre positions (and a roster spot?). The guy is too far into his career to be JAG on a mediocre team. Maybe he takes a step forward this season? Or maybe he loses his spot to an 18 year old. That’d make him, what, this season’s Olofsson?

It’s a sad state of affairs that - between no trade and no movement obstacles and how UFAs view the Sabres - the franchise might be looking to solve its 3C problem with a 14th overall pick.

[fiftyone]

This may have already been discussed, so apologies if I missed it. But in KA's press conference, he was asked about the trade down. He said that when they were deciding whether to go from 11 to 14, there was one player where they'd be very upset if he ended up being there at 11 after they traded out. Any thoughts / ideas of who that may have been? 

[North Buffalo]

I dont get Krebs hate... kids skates hard, hits despite limited size... has speed... limited carrying the puck... wish he could throw 50 lbs on hisself... I am ok with a hockey trade but there are other guys im more meh on... 

[Buffalonill]

42 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

I dont get Krebs hate... kids skates hard, hits despite limited size... has speed... limited carrying the puck... wish he could throw 50 lbs on hisself... I am ok with a hockey trade but there are other guys im more meh on... 

It's just like dan paille people hated on him then Boston used him correctly and became a beast

 

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, fiftyone said:

This may have already been discussed, so apologies if I missed it. But in KA's press conference, he was asked about the trade down. He said that when they were deciding whether to go from 11 to 14, there was one player where they'd be very upset if he ended up being there at 11 after they traded out. Any thoughts / ideas of who that may have been? 

Iginla 

[RochesterExpat]

4 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

I dont get Krebs hate... kids skates hard, hits despite limited size... has speed... limited carrying the puck... wish he could throw 50 lbs on hisself... I am ok with a hockey trade but there are other guys im more meh on... 

Because he was part of the Eichel trade and accepting the fact he's not a Top 6 player is a tough pill to swallow. I think Krebs has a place in the NHL. It's just not the place most of us were hoping for when he came to Buffalo.

[SDS]

37 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

Because he was part of the Eichel trade and accepting the fact he's not a Top 6 player is a tough pill to swallow. I think Krebs has a place in the NHL. It's just not the place most of us were hoping for when he came to Buffalo.

As far as I can tell this is only based on hopium. He doesn’t excel at anything, regardless of how hard he tries or who he plays with.

[Weave]

11 minutes ago, SDS said:

As far as I can tell this is only based on hopium. He doesn’t excel at anything, regardless of how hard he tries or who he plays with.

Krebs is likely going to have to devote himself to becoming a shutdown forward to maintain an NHL career.  Otherwise, he is Europe bound at the end of this contract.

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

I dont get Krebs hate... kids skates hard, hits despite limited size... has speed... limited carrying the puck... wish he could throw 50 lbs on hisself... I am ok with a hockey trade but there are other guys im more meh on... 

Don't hate him. Recognize his passing and shot are mediocre at the nhl level. He's replaceable and not a 3c

[dudacek]

On 6/29/2024 at 8:54 AM, RochesterExpat said:

Who in the pipeline does Helenius make expendable? 
 

Östlund or Rosen? Kulich is a different role and Savoie has a higher ceiling—at least on paper.

 

I do not think Savoie has a higher ceiling. Matt is faster and smaller and equally competitive.

I think each projects as a middle-sixer and I might gave the edge to Helenius as more natural centre.

Also, unrelated, but the thought of a 5'11" 190-pound kid who just turned 18 as 'small" to me is bizarre. He looks considerably thicker than Savoie and Östlund did 2 years ago.

Forton said he projects to play at 6'0" 200. The list of very good NHL players around that size is long.

 

5 hours ago, fiftyone said:

This may have already been discussed, so apologies if I missed it. But in KA's press conference, he was asked about the trade down. He said that when they were deciding whether to go from 11 to 14, there was one player where they'd be very upset if he ended up being there at 11 after they traded out. Any thoughts / ideas of who that may have been? 

 

4 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Iginla 

Decent choice. I was wondering if it was Sennecke.

Edited Sunday at 07:50 PM by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

Pavel Datsyuk was 5'11" and 190lbs. Something to think about. 

[Buffalonill]

30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Pavel Datsyuk was 5'11" and 190lbs. Something to think about. 

He was a generational talent there will never be one like him .

 

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

It's just like dan paille people hated on him then Boston used him correctly and became a beast

 

How should they use Krebs?   He doesn’t win draws.  His shot is poor and he hasn’t shown any ability to finish. He can pass but yet does not create offense.  

He was poor as a 3C last season. He is a bit below average as a 4C.  

He has a little grit but he is not physically strong.  He has some ability to be defensively responsible but is he really a shut down guy? 
 

This season is important for him.  He should be the spare forward but I doubt Adams will bring in two centers, even though he should. 

[dudacek]

6 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

He was a generational talent there will never be one like him .

 

Steve Yzerman 5'11" 185

Joe Sakic 5'!1" 185

Pat Lafontaine 5'10" 180

Dale Hawerchuk 5'11" 185

Wayne Gretzky 6'0" 185

 

Mike Peca 5'11 181

Danny Briere 5'10 181

Chris Drury 5'10" 195

Derek Roy 5'8 187

Steve Ott 6'0" 189

 

Nikita Kucherov 5'11" 182

Kiril Kaprizov 5'!0 202

Sebastian Aho 6'0" 176

Travis Konecny 5'!0 192

Connor Bedard 5'10 185

 

Seriously dude, the amount of guys Helenius' size to have successful NHL careers is so ridiculously long, it's unbelievable people would even bring it up. Throughout positions, eras, franchises and roles.

In a lot of ways, the 5'10 195-pounders with the big thighs and butts have an advantage, using a low centre of gravity and burst to get underneath and around defenders.

Edited Monday at 03:25 AM by dudacek

[dudacek]

38 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

How should they use Krebs?   He doesn’t win draws.  His shot is poor and he hasn’t shown any ability to finish. He can pass but yet does not create offense.  

He was poor as a 3C last season. He is a bit below average as a 4C.  

He has a little grit but he is not physically strong.  He has some ability to be defensively responsible but is he really a shut down guy? 
 

This season is important for him.  He should be the spare forward but I doubt Adams will bring in two centers, even though he should. 

His defensive numbers were actual quite good last year, and 20-ish points is fine for a 4C.

He drastically reduced his giveaways, and his shot-blocking and hitting numbers were fine.

In terms of 5-on-5 play there is no need to upgrade him in that 4C role.

This is a kid who has really been asked to transform his game over the past 2 years, from a high-risk offensive distributor to a conscientious, hard-to-play-against checker. It's been a big ask, and he's really worked hard to make the adjustment.

I see his question as two-fold:

• How much specialization do they need on their 4th line, because he doesn't bring the high-end PK, faceoff, or physicality elements that coaches often look for from those players.
• Can he tap back into his innate playmaking skills at all without losing his defensive gains? Because that would make him a perfect 3C.

I think he ultimately will settle into a long-term career and be pretty good in a 3C role. I just don't know if he can get there this year, or if the Sabres can afford to wait.

 

Edited Sunday at 09:29 PM by dudacek

[Thorny]

17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Of course he will challenge for a roster spot. Adams will make sure there's no one there to block him. 

He will not challenge for a roster spot 

[Pimlach]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

His defensive numbers were actual quite good last year, and 20-ish points is fine for a 4C.

He drastically reduced his giveaways and his shot-blocking and hitting numbers were fine.

In terms of 5-on-5 play there is no need to upgrade him in that 4C role.

This is a kid who has really been asked to transform his game over the past 2 years, from a high-risk offensive distributor to a conscientious, hard-to-play-against checker. It's been a big ask, and he's really worked hard to make the adjustment.

I see his question as two-fold:

• How much specialization do they need on their 4th line, because he doesn't bring the high-end PK, faceoff, or physicality elements that coaches often look for from those players.
• Can he tap back into his innate playmaking skills at all without losing his defensive gains? Because that would make him a perfect 3C.

I think he ultimately will settle into a long-term career and be pretty good in a 3C role. I just don't know if he can get there this year, or if the Sabres can afford to wait.

 

Average 4c numbers but does not bring in high end faceoff, pk, or physical play.  That takes him to a bit below average but yes, he has room to improve and he does what is asked.   

[Buffalonill]

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Steve Yzerman 5'11" 185

Joe Sakic 5'!1" 185

Pat Lafontaine 5'10" 180

Dale Hawerchuk 5'11" 185

Wayne Gretzky 6'0" 185

 

Mike Peca 5'11 181

Danny Briere 5'10 181

Chris Drury 5'10" 195

Derek Roy 5'8 187

Steve Ott 6'0" 189

 

Nikita Kucherov 5'11" 182

Kiril Kaprizov 5'!0 202

Sebastian Aho 6'0" 176

Travis Konecny 5'!0 192

Connor Bedard 5'10 185

 

Seriously dude, the amount of guys Helenius' size to have successful NHL careers is so ridiculously long, it's unbelievable people would even bring it up. Throughout positions, eras, franchises and roles.

In a lot of ways, the 5'10 195-pounders with the big thighs and butts have an advantage, losing a low centre of gravity and burst to get underneath and around defenders.

I never said he wouldn't make it ? 

I was just stating Datsyuk is generational