Thorny Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 2 hours ago, Sidc3000 said: I don’t understand why any Sabres fan would ever think that any Sabres GM would be able to make a deal at this point. They are the laughing stock of the league and no one worth a damn wants to come to Buffalo because of the utter dysfunction. The team has to become a consistent playoff team before they start gaining any respect around the league. Because 75% of the league isn’t on a NMC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 2 hours ago, LGR4GM said: This will sound insane and I'm not advocating for it but Helenius might be better than Krebs within a year or maybe two. From the looks of it he's better than Krebs right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 19 minutes ago, JohnC said: I can understand your frustration with the lack of activity by this GM, but it is misplaced, at least right now it is. As @shrader points out no team was able to trade their first-round pick for a contributing NHL player. Go back and review last year's draft? How many times were draft picks exchanged for NHL players during the draft? The draft picks are simply not valued as much as many here assume they are. Will deals be made after the draft? Yes. Teams are starting to make their buyouts so more players will be up for grabs. And more trades will be made that will have prospects involved for NHL players. We are entering the part of the offseason where trades are usually made and where more free agents will be on the market. I can understand your frustration with this front office because I also have it. But expecting our GM to make deals when few teams are making consequential deals at this time is unrealistic. After the draft, we should be able to get a better feel for what is going happen. As you can see my frustration is high and then I got spun up with unnecessary sarcasm. @shrader's post just rubbed me the wrong way. Listen, I don't care what other teams didn't do so as to justify Adams inabilities. You cannot look at one year and then declare, no one trades draft picks prior to the draft. Can he for once be better than below average and add a player to this team to improve it? That pick was a nice chip that could have helped bring in a good player, which in turn could get something good started this off season. Draft picks can get traded all the time, any time that trades are allowed. Then to suggest we wait until the deadline, well that is probably too late as we tend to be sellers. The move from 11 to 14 had me thinking he had a deal set up. That is my current disappointment. Let's add them to just this years list working backwards: The fake coaching search, that is another disappointment. The fact that he knew this team, and the coach, were not ready prior at the start of last season and did nothing - that is another disappointment. His past failed trades when he declares "other teams love my prospects" and "teams ask more from me than they eventually took" - that is another disappointment. I get it. There is a entire off season to make some moves. Lets see what he does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 8 minutes ago, Pimlach said: As you can see my frustration is high and then I got spun up with unnecessary sarcasm. @shrader's post just rubbed me the wrong way. Listen, I don't care what other teams didn't do so as to justify Adams inabilities. You cannot look at one year and then declare, no one trades draft picks prior to the draft. Can he for once be better than below average and add a player to this team to improve it? That pick was a nice chip that could have helped bring in a good player, which in turn could get something good started this off season. Draft picks can get traded all the time, any time that trades are allowed. Then to suggest we wait until the deadline, well that is probably too late as we tend to be sellers. The move from 11 to 14 had me thinking he had a deal set up. That is my current disappointment. Let's add them to just this years list working backwards: The fake coaching search, that is another disappointment. The fact that he knew this team, and the coach, were not ready prior at the start of last season and did nothing - that is another disappointment. His past failed trades when he declares "other teams love my prospects" and "teams ask more from me than they eventually took" - that is another disappointment. I get it. There is an entire off season to make some moves. Lets see what he does. It’s not like there haven’t been any trades. The sabres have been comfortable being an anomaly in the standings for 13 years, we can’t be the outlier on the trade front? Why not? And again, there WERE trades Ullmark moved for a first etc. You make a good point: if you look at the macro there have been many opportunities - but anyone can select a given 2 weeks period and compare against ONLY the move in that frame and moves look scarce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 1 minute ago, Thorny said: It’s not like there haven’t been any trades. The sabres have been comfortable being an anomaly in the standings for 13 years, we can’t be the outlier on the trade front? Why not? And again, there WERE trades Ullmark moved for a first etc. You make a good point: if you look at the macro there have been many opportunities - but anyone can select a given 2 weeks period and compare against ONLY the move in that frame and moves look scarce You understand my frustration. If we were the ONE Team that traded its first rounder on draft day I am ok with that. The notion that we have to look at what happened, after it happened, and then rationalize it for Adams is not something I am going to do or accept. The 14OA chip is gone. The player we took is promising as a two way center someday. Ok, that is about normal for this regime. The trade down to 14 had me thinking he had a something lined up. He got good value for the trade down too, I give him credit for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 3 minutes ago, Pimlach said: You understand my frustration. If we were the ONE Team that traded its first rounder on draft day I am ok with that. The notion that we have to look at what happened, after it happened, and then rationalize it for Adams is not something I am going to do or accept. The 14OA chip is gone. The player we took is promising as a two way center someday. Ok, that is about normal for this regime. The trade down to 14 had me thinking he had a something lined up. He got good value for the trade down too, I give him credit for that. He said HIMSELF he made the trade to pick up extra tradeable assets. If he doesn’t make a trade he’s made his own bed But the theory makes sense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 23 minutes ago, Thorny said: He said HIMSELF he made the trade to pick up extra tradeable assets. If he doesn’t make a trade he’s made his own bed But the theory makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 @Pimlach, there want an ounce of sarcasm in that post. I’m just simply stating facts. That’s player for first round picks do not happen at this time of the year. The recent history backs that up. You may find a rare one here or there, but teams move these picks at the deadline. There’s no excuses here, it’s just how things work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterExpat Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 Who in the pipeline does Helenius make expendable? Östlund or Rosen? Kulich is a different role and Savoie has a higher ceiling—at least on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 1 minute ago, RochesterExpat said: Who in the pipeline does Helenius make expendable? Östlund or Rosen? Kulich is a different role and Savoie has a higher ceiling—at least on paper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porous Five Hole Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 2 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: You quoted Ostland. He just got to North America during the AHL playoffs and was all tourney at the Worlds shortly before that. How about we wait and see on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 3 minutes ago, shrader said: @Pimlach, there want an ounce of sarcasm in that post. I’m just simply stating facts. That’s player for first round picks do not happen at this time of the year. The recent history backs that up. You may find a rare one here or there, but teams move these picks at the deadline. There’s no excuses here, it’s just how things work. Hmm. Not the way I interpreted what you wrote, or how you wrote it but ok. Lets move on and get back to hockey. Lets see what Kevyn can do next. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 2 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said: You quoted Ostland. He just got to North America during the AHL playoffs and was all tourney at the Worlds shortly before that. How about we wait and see on him? You can't keep everyone he has the value to get a bigger piece they sure As hell not trading Helenius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porous Five Hole Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 Just now, Buffalonill said: You can't keep everyone he has the value to get a bigger piece they sure As hell not trading Helenius Agree with you on you cannot keep everyone. But Buffalo better not be promoting any of these guys to a top six role next year. Let them fight it out in ROC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 This is a fine pick. This is a versatile, well rounded C who has the offensive skills to be a future top-6 forward and the defensive skills to be part of a shutdown line. Obviously not going to help the team immediately, but it’s really good value at 14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 4 minutes ago, Curt said: This is a fine pick. This is a versatile, well rounded C who has the offensive skills to be a future top-6 forward and the defensive skills to be part of a shutdown line. Obviously not going to help the team immediately, but it’s really good value at 14. He could. *ducks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: He could. *ducks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterExpat Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: He could. *ducks For everyone just casually following, this isn’t an opinion exclusive to @LGR4GM but has been publicly stated by several scouts and media talking heads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 ... there's a very real world where Helenius, beats Krebs in camp. It's a long shot but not impossible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 3 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said: For everyone just casually following, this isn’t an opinion exclusive to @LGR4GM but has been publicly stated by several scouts and media talking heads. I could see a scenario where Helenius is one of the 4 best centres in a camp (not just the Sabres's camp) and makes the NHL. If he was one of the 4 best centres for the Bruins or the Lightning or the Stars, he would be surrounded by veterans who could help him ride the waves of a long NHL season, while he helps the team reach the playoffs and gains valuable experience. Here he would be surrounded by players only a few years older who are trying to find their way on their own or with the help of other youngish players who came up in the same poorly thought-out environment. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 3 hours ago, Pimlach said: As you can see my frustration is high and then I got spun up with unnecessary sarcasm. @shrader's post just rubbed me the wrong way. Listen, I don't care what other teams didn't do so as to justify Adams inabilities. You cannot look at one year and then declare, no one trades draft picks prior to the draft. Can he for once be better than below average and add a player to this team to improve it? That pick was a nice chip that could have helped bring in a good player, which in turn could get something good started this off season. Draft picks can get traded all the time, any time that trades are allowed. Then to suggest we wait until the deadline, well that is probably too late as we tend to be sellers. The move from 11 to 14 had me thinking he had a deal set up. That is my current disappointment. Let's add them to just this years list working backwards: The fake coaching search, that is another disappointment. The fact that he knew this team, and the coach, were not ready prior at the start of last season and did nothing - that is another disappointment. His past failed trades when he declares "other teams love my prospects" and "teams ask more from me than they eventually took" - that is another disappointment. I get it. There is a entire off season to make some moves. Lets see what he does. Your last sentence is the point I was highlighting. Let's wait and see what develops. If the GM's collective responses are inadequate, then a torrent of criticism is merited. I agree that the coaching search was blatantly bogus. And I said so when Ruff was hired. This organization is not even good at faking things. Ultimately, it was an acceptable hire. However, the charade was embarrassing and insulting. The big issue for me is the 2/3 C position. That's where my attention is focused on. If that issue isn't properly addressed, the offseason becomes a big fail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 3 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said: Why when someone makes a point on here do they immediately go on the defensive? You asked who was traded for a 1st round pick for a player correct? I find it hard to believe he couldn't find any suitors, my guess like all of yours is that he didn't want to give up a precious prospect as well in any deal but thats my 2 pennies. You may not be aware of it but the offseason is not over with yet. The GM claims that he offered up his first pick. According to him, he had no takers or whatever offers he had were unacceptable to him. Were prospects included in any proposals? I don't know. However, I'm not criticizing the GM just yet for not making a deal that he considers unfair. If you want to, then that's your prerogative. Ottawa made a deal with Boston that included their first pick for Ullmark. It was a fair deal that made good sense for both organizations. So far, our GM has not been able to make an impactful deal just yet. Again, the offseason is not over yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 35 minutes ago, JohnC said: You may not be aware of it but the offseason is not over with yet. The GM claims that he offered up his first pick. According to him, he had no takers or whatever offers he had were unacceptable to him. Were prospects included in any proposals? I don't know. However, I'm not criticizing the GM just yet for not making a deal that he considers unfair. If you want to, then that's your prerogative. Ottawa made a deal with Boston that included their first pick for Ullmark. It was a fair deal that made good sense for both organizations. So far, our GM has not been able to make an impactful deal just yet. Again, the offseason is not over yet. We say this every offseason and we end up disappointed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 2 hours ago, JohnC said: You may not be aware of it but the offseason is not over with yet. GM Sheevyn says: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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