GoPuckYourself Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Oh look a GM who is actively trying to make his team better. It must be nice to have a competent GM, it's been so long I couldn't tell you what that looks like.
LGR4GM Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Oh look a GM who is actively trying to make his team better. You wanted another lhd? Why?
GASabresIUFAN Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 38 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: You wanted another lhd? Why? It wasn't the specific players but the aggressive move to improve his team that caught my attention. 2 1 1
Doohicksie Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: It wasn't the specific players but the aggressive move to improve his team that caught my attention. Is it a move to genuinely improve his team, or is it more an effort to put a divisional rival over a barrel? 1
GASabresIUFAN Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 1 minute ago, Doohickie said: Is it a move to genuinely improve his team, or is it more an effort to put a divisional rival over a barrel? I think it's to improve his team with the added bonus of putting Edm between a rock and a hard place. My guess is Stl tried to trade for one or both players and Edm refused to discuss a trade or the price was crazy high. Stl's top 4 D are 31 to 33, plus they have Suter at 39. They could really use a youth injection on defense. Stl's pipeline is decent, but much like ours, if heavily weighted toward forwards. Their best D prospect, Theo Lindstein, is only 18 and years from the NHL. 1
dudacek Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 (edited) I liked what Armstrong said about offer sheets: “There’s a perception that offer sheets are taboo by managers. Offer sheets that don’t work are taboo by managers. That’s the assessment we all make. I think teams are more than willing to at least explore that now. The cap has gone up, but a lot of that money has already been spent by the teams. If you have an RFA that is in an uncomfortable spot, it’s at least my job responsibility to assess: Is that an option that we should explore?” Basically, it's the counter-poaching GMs have to worry about: will your offer sheet make you vulnerable to losing one of your own players to a subsequent offer sheet, and is it worth the risk? A GM like Adams should be hesitant with Peterka, Quinn, Byram and Levi all pending RFAs. Armstrong has no one like that on his roster, he saw the Oilers squeezing themselves up against their cap with Skinner and Arvidsson, and he pounced. Edited August 14 by dudacek
LGR4GM Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 (edited) 2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: It wasn't the specific players but the aggressive move to improve his team that caught my attention. Never confuse aggression with being correct. Perfect example, it was aggressive to trade Mitts for Byram, but I'm unsure it was correct. 1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I think it's to improve his team with the added bonus of putting Edm between a rock and a hard place. My guess is Stl tried to trade for one or both players and Edm refused to discuss a trade or the price was crazy high. Stl's top 4 D are 31 to 33, plus they have Suter at 39. They could really use a youth injection on defense. Stl's pipeline is decent, but much like ours, if heavily weighted toward forwards. Their best D prospect, Theo Lindstein, is only 18 and years from the NHL. Yes, it may improve his team. How would it improve Buffalo? Rfa's have to sign the offer sheet, these 2 clearly are getting overpaid with the future of them being better in mind. I've seen a ton of complaints here about Adams paying players before they prove themselves. 1 hour ago, dudacek said: I liked what Armstrong said about offer sheets: “There’s a perception that offer sheets are taboo by managers. Offer sheets that don’t work are taboo by managers. That’s the assessment we all make. I think teams are more than willing to at least explore that now. The cap has gone up, but a lot of that money has already been spent by the teams. If you have an RFA that is in an uncomfortable spot, it’s at least my job responsibility to assess: Is that an option that we should explore?” Basically, it's the counter-poaching GMs have to worry about: will your offer sheet make you vulnerable to losing one of your own players to a subsequent offer sheet, and is it worth the risk? A GM like Adams should be hesitant with Peterka, Quinn, Byram and Levi all pending RFAs. Armstrong has no one like that on his roster, he saw the Oilers squeezing themselves up against their cap with Skinner and Arvidsson, and he pounced. None of those players will make it to rfa and I see no reason any of them would want to sign an offer sheet elsewhere. Edited August 14 by LGR4GM 1
GASabresIUFAN Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Never confuse aggression with being correct. But it doesn’t mean it’s wrong either and in this situation I think Armstrong is correct. Adams could learn something from Armstrong. There is a time for patience and a time for aggression. The Sabre need their GM to be more aggressive and that is the lesson here. Fixing the 4th line is not aggression, it was again Adams doing the bare minimum to simply field a roster. As Yerdon said on Duffer’s podcast, these were the moves of a GM trying to get a playoff caliber team deeper into the playoffs not the moves of a GM trying to turn a moribund franchise into a legit playoff team. The Sabres haven’t not yet replaced the lost production of Mitts and Skinner. It’s past time to fix this issue. It’s time for an aggressive move. 2
dudacek Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: But it doesn’t mean it’s wrong either and in this situation I think Armstrong is correct. Adams could learn something from Armstrong. There is a time for patience and a time for aggression. The Sabre need their GM to be more aggressive and that is the lesson here. Fixing the 4th line is not aggression, it was again Adams doing the bare minimum to simply field a roster. As Yerdon said on Duffer’s podcast, these were the moves of a GM trying to get a playoff caliber team deeper into the playoffs not the moves of a GM trying to turn a moribund franchise into a legit playoff team. The Sabres haven’t not yet replaced the lost production of Mitts and Skinner. It’s past time to fix this issue. It’s time for an aggressive move. I read Adams moves as him making the statement "Tage, Tuch, Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Dahlin, Power, Byram is the core of a contender, you'll see." And I read your post as you saying "in no ***** way is that correct" Fair? 1
Flashsabre Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Oh look a GM who is actively trying to make his team better. Is he?
GoPuckYourself Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 2 hours ago, dudacek said: I liked what Armstrong said about offer sheets: “There’s a perception that offer sheets are taboo by managers. Offer sheets that don’t work are taboo by managers. That’s the assessment we all make. I think teams are more than willing to at least explore that now. The cap has gone up, but a lot of that money has already been spent by the teams. If you have an RFA that is in an uncomfortable spot, it’s at least my job responsibility to assess: Is that an option that we should explore?” Basically, it's the counter-poaching GMs have to worry about: will your offer sheet make you vulnerable to losing one of your own players to a subsequent offer sheet, and is it worth the risk? A GM like Adams should be hesitant with Peterka, Quinn, Byram and Levi all pending RFAs. Armstrong has no one like that on his roster, he saw the Oilers squeezing themselves up against their cap with Skinner and Arvidsson, and he pounced. I'm sure Adams will be signing them all to 8 year 7.5M deals shortly.
Taro T Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 29 minutes ago, dudacek said: I read Adams moves as him making the statement "Tage, Tuch, Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Dahlin, Power, Byram is the core of a contender, you'll see." And I read your post as you saying "in no ***** way is that correct" Fair? It's possible Adams is wrong about that being the core of a contender and personally hope (obviously) that he's right and expect he's more right than wrong. But it is 100% fair to say that Adams sees that as the core of a contender which is why all the moves he made this off-season were made to support that core. Heck, even bringing in 1 more top 6W (which he's been rumored often enough as trying to do that it likely is a legit still remaining TO DO item) would be supporting that core rather than supplanting it.
shrader Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 And if Edmonton matches those offers, this move by Armstrong is essentially the equivalent of a rejected trade offer. But hey, that’s also an example of a GM trying to make his team better. Oh, but you’ve also made an enemy.
GASabresIUFAN Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 1 hour ago, Flashsabre said: Is he? 3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I think it's to improve his team with the added bonus of putting Edm between a rock and a hard place. My guess is Stl tried to trade for one or both players and Edm refused to discuss a trade or the price was crazy high. Stl's top 4 D are 31 to 33, plus they have Suter at 39. They could really use a youth injection on defense. Stl's pipeline is decent, but much like ours, if heavily weighted toward forwards. Their best D prospect, Theo Lindstein, is only 18 and years from the NHL. Asked and answered.
JoeSchmoe Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 Cap stressed teams beware! These STL style offer sheets on lower tier players are going to become much more prevalent. They're giving up relatively little for known quantities. I'm guessing this was discussed elsewhere, but based on the compensation rules, if the Sabres would have tendered a $1.5M AAV offer to Malenstyn, we could have had him without having to give up the 2nd. Based on the Caps cap position, they might have pulled it off.
GASabresIUFAN Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 1 hour ago, dudacek said: I read Adams moves as him making the statement "Tage, Tuch, Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Dahlin, Power, Byram is the core of a contender, you'll see." And I read your post as you saying "in no ***** way is that correct" Fair? Fair? No, Even Adams agrees his core isn’t good enough. Why else makes overtures to acquire Necas among others? I do agree Adams believes that is his core less Byram plus UPL or Levi. Chicago, with Kane, Toews and Sharp, needed to be supplemented with Soupy and Hossa to get over the top initially. Adams fully understands what’s wrong with his roster, he just can’t close the deal he needs to get the job done. I don’t know if it’s risk aversion, the internal cap, FOMO on some of the prospects, incompetence, poor salesmanship or in part all of the above or something else, but it’s past time to get such a deal done.
dudacek Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 (edited) 43 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Fair? No, Even Adams agrees his core isn’t good enough. Why else makes overtures to acquire Necas among others? I do agree Adams believes that is his core less Byram plus UPL or Levi. Chicago, with Kane, Toews and Sharp, needed to be supplemented with Soupy and Hossa to get over the top initially. Adams fully understands what’s wrong with his roster, he just can’t close the deal he needs to get the job done. I don’t know if it’s risk aversion, the internal cap, FOMO on some of the prospects, incompetence, poor salesmanship or in part all of the above or something else, but it’s past time to get such a deal done. So when Adams says this team has enough offence he’s blowing smoke, and deep down inside he doesn’t think they can contend without a Necas-level player? There’s a difference between improving the roster and adding to your core. And just so we’re on the same page when we’re talking “core”, how would you fill in the blank in this sentence with a number: “if he was traded to Buffalo, Martin Necas would be the Sabres —— most important forward.” Edited August 14 by dudacek
dudacek Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I do agree Adams believes that is his core less Byram plus UPL or Levi. . You think Adams views Byram as basically a stopgap? Like basically he took him because he was determined to move on from Mittelstadt and Byram was the best piece offered? But in terms of any long-term planning, Adams thinks he’s at-best a Gostisbehere or a DeAngelo or a Tyson Barrie - a flawed second-tier offensive defenceman you use until someone better comes along?
Taro T Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Fair? No, Even Adams agrees his core isn’t good enough. Why else makes overtures to acquire Necas among others? I do agree Adams believes that is his core less Byram plus UPL or Levi. Chicago, with Kane, Toews and Sharp, needed to be supplemented with Soupy and Hossa to get over the top initially. Adams fully understands what’s wrong with his roster, he just can’t close the deal he needs to get the job done. I don’t know if it’s risk aversion, the internal cap, FOMO on some of the prospects, incompetence, poor salesmanship or in part all of the above or something else, but it’s past time to get such a deal done. 26 minutes ago, dudacek said: You think Adams views Byram as basically a stopgap? Like basically he took him because he was determined to move on from Mittelstadt and Byram was the best piece offered? But in terms of any long-term planning, Adams thinks he’s at-best a Gostisbehere or a DeAngelo or a Tyson Barrie - a flawed second-tier offensive defenceman you use until someone better comes along? Adams literally said he'd brought Byram in to partner with Dahlin. Whether that works out to be the way it plays out remains to be seen, but Byram was brought in to be a core piece.
PerreaultForever Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 7 minutes ago, Taro T said: Adams literally said he'd brought Byram in to partner with Dahlin. Whether that works out to be the way it plays out remains to be seen, but Byram was brought in to be a core piece. Ruff is most definitely not going to put players where Adams thinks they should go. I'd say all preconceptions are off and who plays where, with who, and how much, will depend on who adapts to Lindy's style and system the quickest and works the hardest to earn and keep his spot. My guess will be anybody who does not fit in to that or adapt well will be top of the trade list. At least that's what I hope, but I do not see Lindy as a yes man to Adams.
GASabresIUFAN Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, dudacek said: So when Adams says this team has enough offence he’s blowing smoke, and deep down inside he doesn’t think they can contend without a Necas-level player? Yes. 1 hour ago, dudacek said: You think Adams views Byram as basically a stopgap? Like basically he took him because he was determined to move on from Mittelstadt and Byram was the best piece offered? Yes he was determined to move on from Mitts and Byram was the best piece offered. Yes, I think he is a Tyson Barrie type player and no I don’t think he is a good partner for Dahlin regardless of what Adams said at a press conference. Byram came with a 1 yr contract and then an RFA. This gave KA a player with potential and some control. However, the money doesn’t work long-term. Quinn, JJP, McLeod and Levi will need new contracts and then Benson and Tuch after them. There won’t be enough cap room after that to pay Byram big $ as well. I predicted before last season that KA would trade Mitts because he didn’t want to commit big $ to him long-term. I make the same prediction about Byram now. He’ll be traded next off-season or if the Sabres are again falling short of the playoffs, he might be traded at the deadline. Edited August 14 by GASabresIUFAN 1 1
dudacek Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Yes. Yes. No wonder you are so down on the guy.
dudacek Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 16 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: Ruff is most definitely not going to put players where Adams thinks they should go. I'd say all preconceptions are off and who plays where, with who, and how much, will depend on who adapts to Lindy's style and system the quickest and works the hardest to earn and keep his spot. My guess will be anybody who does not fit in to that or adapt well will be top of the trade list. At least that's what I hope, but I do not see Lindy as a yes man to Adams. Can’t recall Lindy ever playing power games with his GM. From would I’ve observed from both men, I’d be shocked if their relationship is anything other than collaborative. I’d also be shocked if the bold isn’t the case. Tying this in to my conversation with @GASabresIUFAN, Byram strikes me as very much a Lindy guy: plays fast, attacks the game at both ends, competes hard, pushes back: he’s a Western Leaguer to the core. Real curious about what kind of summer he’s had. He’s better talent than the player he was traded for. If he finds his game the way Casey did at his age, he’s going to be a real asset.
GASabresIUFAN Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 13 minutes ago, dudacek said: No wonder you are so down on the guy. Byram or Adams? By the way, I don’t question Byram O skills, or his ability to be aggressive. We saw those two things early after the trade. What I do question is his commitment and ability to actually play defense.
dudacek Posted August 14 Report Posted August 14 5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Byram or Adams? By the way, I don’t question Byram O skills, or his ability to be aggressive. We saw those two things early after the trade. What I do question is his commitment and ability to actually play defense. Adams Never disagreed that Byram wasn’t bad at defence over his last 10 or so games in Buffalo. Prior to this year, he’s never given me any reason to question his ability to play defence. And he’s never given me any reason to question his commitment. The kid is a stud talent and a competitor. I’m going to bet ability + commitment + coaching produces a player who makes you happy to be wrong.
Recommended Posts