kas23 Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 20 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: This is great to hear. I'm not a St. Louis fan or anything but this was a perfectly designed predatory offer sheet scenario and shows a GM willing to play hardball cut throat and not be part of some silent boys club agreement scene. Obviously he's made an enemy in Edmonton but really helped his team and I hope this signals the start of other GMs getting this aggressive. The homework they did with those exact contract numbers to keep the compensation where it was was also genius. GM of the year so far. As an aside on Laine, it would have been insane if this team traded for Laine after buying out Skinner. I’m not sure he made an enemy. It’s a weird situation. Armstrong also sent EDM a 3rd in 2028 and whoever Paul Fischer is for basically nothing. I’m not sure why a more comprehensive trade wasn’t just consummated. From outside appearances, EDM must’ve known this was coming. Maybe EDM thought Armstrong was bluffing?
LTS Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 22 hours ago, shrader said: Why would the league reject it? Well.. I didn't have a reason as I mentioned. Just a hypothesis. Fischer isn't much of a prospect from what I see (5th rd). The draft pick compensation is more direct and probably adequate although the 2028 pick is just laughable. Seriously.. perhaps the NHL should put a time frame around what picks can be traded.
Taro T Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 14 minutes ago, LTS said: Well.. I didn't have a reason as I mentioned. Just a hypothesis. Fischer isn't much of a prospect from what I see (5th rd). The draft pick compensation is more direct and probably adequate although the 2028 pick is just laughable. Seriously.. perhaps the NHL should put a time frame around what picks can be traded. Why? If the 2 GM's want to trade a pick 4 years from now or even 10 years from now, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? Going by the old rule of thumb that a draft pick loses 1 round of value for each year further in the future it'll be made. Makes this essentially a 6th in next year's draft which has almost no realisitic value. Whereas, Edmonton at least knocks a couple of potential offer sheets out of the Blues '27 quiver with this trade.
French Collection Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Taro T said: Whereas, Edmonton at least knocks a couple of potential offer sheets out of the Blues '27 quiver with this trade. If, and a big if at that, teams start using offer sheets as a means of improvement, they need to keep their own draft picks handy. That would be challenging itself due to how many are thrown around every year, especially at the deadline.
Taro T Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 9 minutes ago, French Collection said: If, and a big if at that, teams start using offer sheets as a means of improvement, they need to keep their own draft picks handy. That would be challenging itself due to how many are thrown around every year, especially at the deadline. Yep. And Edmonton got Armstrong to take a few levels of FA compensation off the table in '27 by taking his 3rd round pick in '28.
LTS Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 2 hours ago, Taro T said: Why? If the 2 GM's want to trade a pick 4 years from now or even 10 years from now, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? Going by the old rule of thumb that a draft pick loses 1 round of value for each year further in the future it'll be made. Makes this essentially a 6th in next year's draft which has almost no realisitic value. Whereas, Edmonton at least knocks a couple of potential offer sheets out of the Blues '27 quiver with this trade. It lessens the tangibility for the average fan. You look at it the way you do but for the vast majority of fans they won't even remember when that draft pick was traded. So I think the immediate impact is lessened for the average fan. I personally don't get excited over teams trading picks 4 years out. Not that this trade did much for me anyway. but.. 🙂 1
Thorner Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 Remember when Botterill traded a 6th for a 6th the following draft haha
PerreaultForever Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 3 hours ago, kas23 said: I’m not sure he made an enemy. It’s a weird situation. Armstrong also sent EDM a 3rd in 2028 and whoever Paul Fischer is for basically nothing. I’m not sure why a more comprehensive trade wasn’t just consummated. From outside appearances, EDM must’ve known this was coming. Maybe EDM thought Armstrong was bluffing? No, it was all a complicated ploy to get rid of Ceci 🙂 Whatever the details I loved it. Squeeze a cap ceiling team any chance you get. I wish we saw offer sheets every year. 2
#freejame Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 30 minutes ago, Thorny said: Remember when Botterill traded a 6th for a 6th the following draft haha A lower sixth with Toronto at that! 1
Taro T Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 5 minutes ago, #freejame said: A lower sixth with Toronto at that! In fairness to Botterill, a trade with almost ANY team at that time would be for a lower pick when they're both in the same round. (What were the odds that the team they'd traded with would finish dead last in 2019? Pretty slim at best.) But, yeah, it was a head scratcher why he wanted a worse pick a year later if it wasn't simply for the fact there was literally not 1 single player left on their board at that point that he felt was worthy of getting drafted. But then they used their 7th round pick; so they did believe there were players (or more accurately A player worth drafting). So, was the guy that thought Worge-Kreu was worthy of drafting, off taking a dump or grabbing a hot dog when it was the Sabres turn in the 6th? Or was he given a solid MID-6th round grade but was viewed as a reach at the top of the 6th?
shrader Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 7 minutes ago, Taro T said: In fairness to Botterill, a trade with almost ANY team at that time would be for a lower pick when they're both in the same round. (What were the odds that the team they'd traded with would finish dead last in 2019? Pretty slim at best.) But, yeah, it was a head scratcher why he wanted a worse pick a year later if it wasn't simply for the fact there was literally not 1 single player left on their board at that point that he felt was worthy of getting drafted. But then they used their 7th round pick; so they did believe there were players (or more accurately A player worth drafting). So, was the guy that thought Worge-Kreu was worthy of drafting, off taking a dump or grabbing a hot dog when it was the Sabres turn in the 6th? Or was he given a solid MID-6th round grade but was viewed as a reach at the top of the 6th? No one wants the 7th round pick and you might as well use it instead of just passing (if you can even do that). And this “lower pick” thing come up all the time. Not all drafts are created equal… particularly when you’re already 6 rounds deep in one of them. 1
Taro T Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 6 minutes ago, shrader said: No one wants the 7th round pick and you might as well use it instead of just passing (if you can even do that). And this “lower pick” thing come up all the time. Not all drafts are created equal… particularly when you’re already 6 rounds deep in one of them. That's actually plausible. But that has to be a kick in the nuts to be the guy taken simply because the team couldn't GIVE the pick away and (presumably) according to the CBA had to use the pick or face fines/sanctions. Hey, an NHL team wants ME!!!!!! No, no, they really don't.
Taro T Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: It was a funny trade my apologies It was the incident/item that was the most representative of the Sabres of that era. It summed them up perfectly. 2
Porous Five Hole Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Thorny said: It was a funny trade my apologies It was hilarious. 4D chess, amirite? 34 minutes ago, Taro T said: In fairness to Botterill, a trade with almost ANY team at that time would be for a lower pick when they're both in the same round. (What were the odds that the team they'd traded with would finish dead last in 2019? Pretty slim at best.) But, yeah, it was a head scratcher why he wanted a worse pick a year later if it wasn't simply for the fact there was literally not 1 single player left on their board at that point that he felt was worthy of getting drafted. But then they used their 7th round pick; so they did believe there were players (or more accurately A player worth drafting). So, was the guy that thought Worge-Kreu was worthy of drafting, off taking a dump or grabbing a hot dog when it was the Sabres turn in the 6th? Or was he given a solid MID-6th round grade but was viewed as a reach at the top of the 6th? I looked it up for fun. The player’s name is Pontus Holmberg and he’s got 91 NHL games to his credit so far (not including appearing in all seven playoff games in 2024). Frickin Botts 🤦♂️ Edited August 21 by Porous Five Hole 1 2
DarthEbriate Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 The outcome (thus far) of that 6th for a guaranteed-lower-6th swap is this: 2018 TOR drafted 156thOA: Pontus Holmberg. NHL 91 GP 12-18-30 +11, 75 hits and 36 PIM in 4th line minutes. This offseason, he is currently listed as Toronto's 3LW. 2019 BUF -- JBott deals that 177thOA plus a 7th to get back into the 5th round to take F Filip Cederqvist, who GMKA traded this season to Montreal for... future considerations. 2 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said: It was hilarious. 4D chess, amirite? I looked it up for fun. The player’s name is Pontus Holmberg and he’s got 91 NHL games to his credit so far (not including appearing in all seven playoff games in 2024). Frickin Botts 🤦♂️ D'oh! Beat me buy a minute! 1 1
Thorner Posted August 21 Report Posted August 21 Just now, DarthEbriate said: The outcome (thus far) of that 6th for a guaranteed-lower-6th swap is this: 2018 TOR drafted 156thOA: Pontus Holmberg. NHL 91 GP 12-18-30 +11, 75 hits and 36 PIM in 4th line minutes. This offseason, he is currently listed as Toronto's 3LW. 2019 BUF -- JBott deals that 177thOA plus a 7th to get back into the 5th round to take F Filip Cederqvist, who GMKA traded this season to Montreal for... future considerations. Following this trade tree to its conclusion is our unspoken mandate 1
shrader Posted August 22 Report Posted August 22 5 hours ago, Taro T said: That's actually plausible. But that has to be a kick in the nuts to be the guy taken simply because the team couldn't GIVE the pick away and (presumably) according to the CBA had to use the pick or face fines/sanctions. Hey, an NHL team wants ME!!!!!! No, no, they really don't. I feel like the 6th round pick probably sees the writing on the wall. He’s thrilled to be drafted and knows it’s an uphill battle.
sabremike Posted August 22 Report Posted August 22 Botts really deserves to be in the conversation with the likes Ed Johnston and Mad Mike in worst GM debates. The idea of somehow being worse than that absurd raging sociopath GMTM is just mindblowing. 1
Taro T Posted August 22 Report Posted August 22 10 hours ago, shrader said: I feel like the 6th round pick probably sees the writing on the wall. He’s thrilled to be drafted and knows it’s an uphill battle. Wasn't talking about the 6th rounder that actually made the show that the Loafs took. Was referring to the 7th rounder that ended up washing out that the Sabres took after they literally couldn't give the pick away.
Flashsabre Posted August 22 Report Posted August 22 https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/columbus-blue-jackets/latest-news/were-players-who-spoke-out-against-patrik-laine-and-elvis-merzļikins-traded-to-protect-them Interesting read. Sounds like Laine has a lot of baggage with him.
shrader Posted August 22 Report Posted August 22 55 minutes ago, Taro T said: Wasn't talking about the 6th rounder that actually made the show that the Loafs took. Was referring to the 7th rounder that ended up washing out that the Sabres took after they literally couldn't give the pick away. I must have fat fingered it because I would have swore I typed 7th.
ponokasabre Posted August 22 Report Posted August 22 Wow Shocked its not here yet but EF is reporting McGroaty has been traded from Winnipeg to Pittsburgh Hockeybuzz is saying its Braedon Yager going back to Winnipeg, but EF has not confirmed return yet
Flashsabre Posted August 22 Report Posted August 22 21 minutes ago, ponokasabre said: Wow Shocked its not here yet but EF is reporting McGroaty has been traded from Winnipeg to Pittsburgh Hockeybuzz is saying its Braedon Yager going back to Winnipeg, but EF has not confirmed return yet Yep Yager for McGroaty.
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