Assuming the Sabres keep the 11th overall pick, who do you want and who do think Adams takes?

[JP51]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

Assuming the likelihood there was not a suitable trade available, what player would you have preferred him to take?

Love this I think you nailed it with suitable trade... I think he tried I really do... I think the Brand has been devalued to Coyote staus and players with NMC won't come here. This is sad...  to answer the question I would have done 1 of 3 things in order 

1. Try hard to move up for Tij Iginla

2. Not trade back take Sam Dickinson at 11

3. If 1 and 2 aren't possible I take Cole Eiserman at 16.

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Love this I think you nailed it with suitable trade... I think he tried I really do... I think the Brand has been devalued to Coyote staus and players with NMC won't come here. This is sad...  to answer the question I would have done 1 of 3 things in order 

1. Try hard to move up for Tij Iginla

2. Not trade back take Sam Dickinson at 11

3. If 1 and 2 aren't possible I take Cole Eiserman at 16.

Iginla is 1" taller and 2lbs heavier than Helenius. This is why I keep pushing back on your small euro comments. 

[JP51]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Iginla is 1" taller and 2lbs heavier than Helenius. This is why I keep pushing back on your small euro comments. 

Listen I get it... the European thing has less to do about size and more to do about style. My belief is that 5 years from no no one will compare Iginlas style of play and ability to take away space to Helenius. If I am building a pond hockey team let's say with no boards and unlimited space I am valuing speed stickhandling and puck movement overall in the style I am looking for. If I am succeeding in European hockey where the rink is 15 feet wider I worry less about operation in small space and taking away space and naturally the skilled skaters will be more successful. When I look at a more confined NHL surface space eating and operating in confined space exponentially becomes more valuable.  This does not mean Europeans can't do it nor does it mean that every player on your team has to Excell at it. My belief though is that you need a solid mix of both. We do not .. we have an abundance of skilled skaters etc... we need people to play in confined space. The over drafting of Europeans has been a theme here for years and we see the results. Maybe Helenius is the second coming of Wendel Clark... I don't know. But philosophically I can't agree with what Adams is doing because let's face it they are 18 yr old kids and no one knows how they will end up. But philosophically I believe his focus needs to be on players that operate in a smaller space and are skilled at taking away space. I respect your disagreement with that... but it's simply the way I see it. You see it differently and that's ok time will tell. 

[LGR4GM]

I think Helenius is better at taking away space than Iginla. 

[JP51]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Helenius is better at taking away space than Iginla. 

Fair enough 

[Mr. Allen]

I’m a little pissed.  This organization definitely could’ve used Dickinson much more than Helenius.   
Dickinson would enter as the number 1 defensive prospect.  Easily.  Where Helenius is not even a top 3 Center prospect.  I know different styles of play, but he’s behind Savoi, Kukick and Östlund.  Maybe he’s a better fit for a bottom 6 Center than the other guys, but he’s still behind. 

[LGR4GM]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

I’m a little pissed.  This organization definitely could’ve used Dickinson much more than Helenius.   
Dickinson would enter as the number 1 defensive prospect.  Easily.  Where Helenius is not even a top 3 Center prospect.  I know different styles of play, but he’s behind Savoi, Kukick and Östlund.  Maybe he’s a better fit for a bottom 6 Center than the other guys, but he’s still behind. 

I disagree. This org has a ton of lhd and didn't need another. Helenius is probably the best 2way center of the 4 players here and I think Kulich and Savoie and up at wing.

[FrenchConnection44]

On 6/24/2024 at 5:40 PM, dudacek said:

I have absolutely no idea what kind of big picture the Sabres data crunchers have painted of Cole Eiserman.

But I find him the most fascinating player likely to be available when they pick.

I don’t think casual draftniks understand how prolific this kid is. And I very much want Sam Ventura to supply the proper context.

Eiserman is the all-time leading goal scorer for the USNTDP. He scored 127 goals in two years in the same circumstances that saw Auston Matthews score 79 and Patrick Kane 84. I’ve seen people dismiss him as Oliver Wahlstrom. Wahlstrom had 72 goals - that’s not even 2/3rds Eiserman’s totals.

It’s a different sort of ‘yeah, but’ but I see some Zach Benson parallels here despite the fact they are completely different players.

With Benson, 12 teams saw the kid’s terrific all-around game and said “yeah, but” he’s small and not fast.

With Eiserman, teams see his unprecedented gift for scoring goals and also say “yeah but” that’s all he cares about.

Could this be another case of scouts missing the forest for the trees?

I don’t have an informed opinion on how good Eiserman will be.

But I remember when the Sabres made “a complete game” their priority and picked Ric Seiling right before the Islanders took Mike Bossy.

I don’t want that to happen again.

 

Seems like they did exactly what you didn’t want to happen. Passed on Eiserman and went with a “complete game” player. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Although it could be argued they passed on the guy with the most complete game who went one pick later, Brandsegg-Nygard  

 

 

[LGR4GM]

Eiserman is going to be good and several teams who passed on him will look foolish. 

[Mr. Allen]

33 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I disagree. This org has a ton of lhd and didn't need another. Helenius is probably the best 2way center of the 4 players here and I think Kulich and Savoie and up at wing.

I know he brings something different and I like that.  But we could really use more/better defensive prospects. 

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Eiserman is going to be good and several teams who passed on him will look foolish. 

It’s like that little guy Montreal took a couple years ago. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Mr. Allen said:

I know he brings something different and I like that.  But we could really use more/better defensive prospects. 

We have 4 with nhl potential. Novikov, Komarov, Strbak, and maybe McCarthy. I'd expect to add at least 1 more today. 

[Mr. Allen]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We have 4 with nhl potential. Novikov, Komarov, Strbak, and maybe McCarthy. I'd expect to add at least 1 more today. 

None of those guys have potential like Dickinson and Buiuv. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Mr. Allen said:

None of those guys have potential like Dickinson and Buiuv. 

Owen Power is 21. Rasmus Dahlin is 24. Bowen Byram is 22. They all have what those 2 do. 

[Mr. Allen]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Owen Power is 21. Rasmus Dahlin is 24. Bowen Byram is 22. They all have what those 2 do. 

Those guys aren’t prospects. 

[Trettioåtta]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

Those guys aren’t prospects. 

Samuelsson can also get added to the list. Jokiharu too possibly, That is 4/5 D men all under 25. We don't need to keep adding young D-men. We have young D-men who play in the NHL. None of those forwards who are comprable to Helenius play in the NHL. Until they do, they do not make picks like Helenius superfluous.

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

Those guys aren’t prospects. 

Draft Dickinson, where's he playing in 2 years? Not line 1 or pp1. Not line 2 or pp2. I suppose maybe line 2. We have all the young lhd. Wasn't a need. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Mr. Allen said:

I’m a little pissed.  This organization definitely could’ve used Dickinson much more than Helenius.   
Dickinson would enter as the number 1 defensive prospect.  Easily.  Where Helenius is not even a top 3 Center prospect.  I know different styles of play, but he’s behind Savoi, Kukick and Östlund.  Maybe he’s a better fit for a bottom 6 Center than the other guys, but he’s still behind. 

I’d say he’s of the same tier.

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Seems like they did exactly what you didn’t want to happen. Passed on Eiserman and went with a “complete game” player. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Although it could be argued they passed on the guy with the most complete game who went one pick later, Brandsegg-Nygard  

 

 

They did. In a few years, we will find out if they were right.

(To be clear, I don’t know enough about Eiserman to have an opinion on the player, only the scenario.)

24 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

Those guys aren’t prospects. 

They aren’t, but if you project the NHL roster over the next handful of years, the Sabres had 3 D under 25 signed to long-term deals, with recent 1st rounders Johnson and Byram there as well: 3/5 of 7 NHL spots

Do the same exercise up front and you have Thompson and Cozens long term with Quinn, Krebs, Peterka, Benson and 4 recent 1st rounders: 2/10 of 14.

The facts are that it doesn’t matter what position the Sabres chose because they have more prospects than spots, period.