Assuming the Sabres keep the 11th overall pick, who do you want and who do think Adams takes?

[Flashsabre]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/topic/nhl-draft/final-mock-2024-nhl-draft-intrigue-after-1st-3-picks
 

The NHL.com draft guys have us taking Catton or Yaremchuk at 11. Please no to both.  Yaremchuk has Ristolainen written all over him and Catton is Nic Petan 2.0 (cheap shot? Maybe, but I don’t want another small forward).

This is the moment to get a big physical power forward this organization is desperate for.  

Do you consider Necas a power forward?

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Flashsabre said:

Do you consider Necas a power forward?

No

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Desperate? No. Won't be in Buffalo for 3 years or matter for 4.

You are confusing NHL roster with the lack of legit power forward prospects in the pipeline besides Wahlberg. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You are confusing NHL roster with the lack of legit power forward prospects in the pipeline besides Wahlberg. 

Hey, I want Brandsegg-Nygård or Eiserman if Iginla is gone. 

 

[JP51]

23 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What a strange comment. Outside of I suppose Östlund and maybe Rosen? they haven't drafted any small euro players. 

2023: 

Wahlberg, 6'3" and certainly uses his size

Strbak, 6'3" and loves using his size

2022

Jiri Kulich, 6'1" and uses size

Komarov, 6'3" and is a blend

2021

Poltapov, only 5'11" but not a figure skater

I really only come up with Östlund, Rosen, and Kisakov? 

I get your point they are all not small nor are they all figure skaters..., I do question if they are going to bring the grit that we need and is this a philosopy. Owen Power is big but he doesnt use his size. Benson is small but he will play with an edge.  With respect to propensity I cant agree. ... 2023 Wahlberg, Strbak, Panocha, 2022 Östlund, Kulik, Leinonen, Neuchev, Lindgren, Komarov, Karlsson, Ratkovic, Sjodin. 2021 Rosen, Poltapov, Kisakov, Sardarian, Novikov, Von Barnekow.  2020 with 5 picks

Peterka, Lyckasen, Konecny.

Edited Thursday at 03:17 PM by JP51

[dudacek]

19 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I get your point they are all not small nor are they all figure skaters..., I do question if they are going to bring the grit that we need and is this a philosopy. Owen Power is big but he doesnt use his size. Benson is small but he will play with an edge.  With respect to propensity I cant agree. ... 2023 Wahlberg, Strbak, Panocha, 2022 Östlund, Kulik, Leinonen, Neuchev, Lindgren, Komarov, Karlsson, Ratkovic, Sjodin. 2021 Rosen, Poltapov, Kisakov, Sardarian, Novikov, Von Barnekow.  2020 with 5 picks

Peterka, Lyckasen, Konecny.

Is the premise of this post that Europeans don't supply grit and we should be concerned about players' birth certificates?

[JP51]

On 6/26/2024 at 11:29 AM, mjd1001 said:

Except, with their first pick in the draft the Sabes selected:

-last year (2023), a Canadian

-2022, a Canadian

-2021, a Canadian

-2020, a Canadian

-2019, a Canadian

So in reference to a thread that is talkin about who they will pick with their first selection in the first round.....why exactly are saying you suspect Adams will pick ANOTHER one? 

If you want to pick on Adams there are ways to do it other than to say things that don't have any basis in fact.

I think my issue is both grit and style... I dont believe he has put the value he needs on players that are difficult to play against. Whether large or small... again Benson is small but I love his game, Power is big and he doesnt bring the size to the game. If we are looking at the drafts I get there were Canadians drafted but since 2020 he has taken 21/35 European players so 60%.  If we examine some of the Stanley cup winners recently and maybe the Bruins lets say... we get Florida 11/26 (42% )

Vegas 10/23 (43%..). Colorado  5/16  (31% )  Lets throw in the Bruins cause we love to hate them lol  6/22 (27%.).   I am suggesting that the European style of hockey is much different than the NHL and that we are over loading that style philosophically. This results in a team that is very easy to play against.  With regard to basis and fact, I would respectfully disagree that there is certainly fact here. 

Edited Thursday at 03:47 PM by JP51

[JP51]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Is the premise of this post that Europeans don't supply grit and we should be concerned about players' birth certificates?

I dont think Birth Certificates have anything to do with it. I think it is the style of hockey that is taught, rink size etc... my opinion is that the European style of hockey lends it self to players that excel in space not those that excel in operating and taking away space. But thats just my opinion.

Edited Thursday at 03:48 PM by JP51

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I think my issue is both grit and style... I dont believe he has put the value he needs on players that are difficult to play against. Whether large or small... again Benson is small but I love his game, Power is big and he doesnt bring the size to the game. If we are looking at the drafts I get there were Canadians drafted but since 2020 he has taken 21/35 European players so 60%.  If we examine some of the Stanley cup winners recently and maybe the Bruins lets say... we get Florida 11/26 (42% )

Vegas 10/23 (43%..). Colorado  5/16  (31% )  Lets throw in the Bruins cause we love to hate them lol  6/22 (27%.).   I am suggesting that the European style of hockey is much different than the NHL and that over loading that style philosophically as we clearly have results in a team that is very easy to play against.  With regard to basis and fact, I would respectfully disagree that there is certainly fact here. 

Sorry, who's Florida's best center? Just remind me because I forgot. 

Also comparing nhl players to drafted players is like comparing fish in a lake to the fish in the ocean. 

[JP51]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Sorry, who's Florida's best center? Just remind me because I forgot. 

Not sure what that has to do with this... and I suspect that you didnt forget... just a guess... 

[JP51]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sorry, who's Florida's best center? Just remind me because I forgot. 

Also comparing nhl players to drafted players is like comparing fish in a lake to the fish in the ocean. 

Didnt see the edit sorry... I would say that comparing NHL players to drafted players is like comparing the fish you caught vs those you casted for... but in the end we are talking about the draft and who we think will be drafted. I am relying on Adams draft history over the past 4 years and it seems to me he overloads European players in his picks. This results in a team that is not very difficult to play against... and to that point, it is not just the European players he picks... they are from all over... I would like him to begin to appropriately recognize that we are soft... in fact if you listen to the players review of their own team they say that in so many words... I am hopeful he will address this. Time will tell.  The funny thing is if you ask me what I really think he will do with this pick I would be shocked if he didnt trade it... 

Edited Thursday at 04:00 PM by JP51

[mjd1001]

Its tough to say they aren't using their top pick to draft enough toughness or grit/sandpaper style of play.

-Last year Adams drafted Benson. He's small, but most people think he is exactly the type of player most want (tough, gritty, tenacious, etc).  I don't know how you measure that other than the 'eye test' (the eye test most people think he passes very well in terms of hard play), but he has more penalty minutes than anyone else in the draft, even if his 'hit' totals are a bit low....and other than him only 3 players drafted last year even have scored in the NHL, and those are the top 3 picks (Benson was 13th). Again, its very early to evaluate that draft class, but the few results say the Sabres got the BEST blend of talent and hard play of anyone available to them.

-2 years ago they Drafted Savoie.  Is he tough/gritty? I don't know, but probably not.  However, of anyone drafted in the first round AFTER Savoie (basically who was available to play), the only guys taken in the first round that have played 20 NHL games are....two Russians that are under 200 lbs.

-3 years ago, Adams drafted Power. We KNOW Power doesn't hit, but he was the consensus #1 pick, the ONLY other guy that anyone thought to even consider with that pick was Beniers...a guy with virtually no physical game (2.83 hits per game which would rank toward the bottom of the list on the Sabres), and many on the Seattle forum are already complaining he has zero physical game...game in and game out.

So, could Adams go out of his WAY to draft tougher/harder hitting players? I guess, but in the position they have been drafting, there wasn't any obvious alternative pick they could have made.   If you want bigger/stronger/tougher/harder to play against guys, you are doing that later in the draft or by trade/free agency.

 

[LGR4GM]

30 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Didnt see the edit sorry... I would say that comparing NHL players to drafted players is like comparing the fish you caught vs those you casted for... but in the end we are talking about the draft and who we think will be drafted. I am relying on Adams draft history over the past 4 years and it seems to me he overloads European players in his picks. This results in a team that is not very difficult to play against... and to that point, it is not just the European players he picks... they are from all over... I would like him to begin to appropriately recognize that we are soft... in fact if you listen to the players review of their own team they say that in so many words... I am hopeful he will address this. Time will tell.  The funny thing is if you ask me what I really think he will do with this pick I would be shocked if he didnt trade it... 

List of players that Kevyn Adams has drafted that play a regular NHL shift as of today:

Jack Quinn, JJ Peterka (Euro), Owen Power, Zach Benson. That's it, that is the list. You are taking a perception about drafting and applying it to a team that has currently 3 European players (Rasmus Dahlin (who is not soft at all), JJ Peterka (I wouldn't call him soft, he's average), and UPL (Goalie). So your claim that drafting european players is why the Sabres are soft rings exceedingly hollow when outside of JJ Peterka, Adams hasn't added a single European player to the NHL roster through drafting. 

Let's take this a step further, you quoted the percentage of players from Europe that Adams drafted at 21 of 35 or 60%. Let's look deeper into that number, shall we? Kevyn Adams has never used his 1st, 1st round pick on a European player. Quinn, Power, Savoie, Benson. He has used 3 first round picks on European players with Rosen, Kulich, Östlund, being the 3. Östlund and Rosen are certainly to this point more small and finesse. 42% of 1st round picks on Euro players. Now he has made 6 2nd round picks on Euro players for a 100% total of those picks. They are Peterka (good pick), Kisakov and Poltapov (meh), Leinonen (lol), and Wahlberg and Strbak. The only 2 that qualify is smaller or perhaps soft is Kisakov and maybe Poltapov (idk I never see him anymore). Wahlberg is 6'3" and Strbak is 6'3" and I would not call either soft. Leinonen is a goalie we can literally ignore cuz he's not relevant ever. 4 picks in the 3rd for Adams with a 2/2 spilt. 7 picks in the 4th and 5th round with only 2 European players. Rounds 6 and 7 are literally not worth looking at because like 1 maybe 2 of all those guys will ever play NHL games, you could draft them from Zimbabwe or Chicago, doesn't matter. 

All in all I count  3 smaller and softer Euro players from rounds 1-3. Since these are the most important rounds, I don't really care. I have to toss out the entire 2021 draft as Adams has said they went heavy in certain Euro leagues because they actually had data and played the season. Really, what I am getting at is there is no proof at all that Adams is somehow prioritizing small European born players at the expense of bigger, grittier, NA guys. In fact if we look at the 2023 draft, there is a sharp and marked push to draft bigger types of players. After Zach Benson, Adams didn't draft a player under 6'3" until we get to the goalie Ratzlaff in the 5th round. Wahlberg, Strbak, McCarthy, Miedema are all bigger and have some element of grit to their style. I am pretty down on Adams at the moment, but he already recognized that the team needed to add more size with grit to the pool and last draft is almost exclusively that. One last thought, Komarov and Novikov are both European players, I would not call either of them Soft and they are from rounds 5 and 6 respectively with NHL chances. 

[LGR4GM]

58 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Not sure what that has to do with this... and I suspect that you didnt forget... just a guess... 

Alek Barkov, Finnish hockey player who has 2 Selke trophys. Draft good players, worry about where they are from later. One of the smart things Adams has done has been to get European players to Rochester ASAP. Novikov, Wahlberg, Kulich are all there and Östlund and Komarov are all heading there (Komarov is a CHL product though) so it isn't like they won't get up to NA speed or style. 

[JP51]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Alek Barkov, Finnish hockey player who has 2 Selke trophys. Draft good players, worry about where they are from later. One of the smart things Adams has done has been to get European players to Rochester ASAP. Novikov, Wahlberg, Kulich are all there and Östlund and Komarov are all heading there (Komarov is a CHL product though) so it isn't like they won't get up to NA speed or style. 

Well we can agree on that... I dont see rushed developmet at all.. I think it will serve us well... I also dont disagree with draft good players (Although an argument can be made for Reinhart as the best C LOL) and dont get me wrong, I have no problem whatsoever with skilled hockey players that can play in space... But I believe a mix is required and right now we are over loaded with the former. My hope is that there is recognition of this and yes some frustration over the past decade and a half that we did not pay enough attention to this... that being said, thanks for responding, I am new here and I appreciate the solid discussion.

 

[JP51]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

List of players that Kevyn Adams has drafted that play a regular NHL shift as of today:

Jack Quinn, JJ Peterka (Euro), Owen Power, Zach Benson. That's it, that is the list. You are taking a perception about drafting and applying it to a team that has currently 3 European players (Rasmus Dahlin (who is not soft at all), JJ Peterka (I wouldn't call him soft, he's average), and UPL (Goalie). So your claim that drafting european players is why the Sabres are soft rings exceedingly hollow when outside of JJ Peterka, Adams hasn't added a single European player to the NHL roster through drafting. 

Let's take this a step further, you quoted the percentage of players from Europe that Adams drafted at 21 of 35 or 60%. Let's look deeper into that number, shall we? Kevyn Adams has never used his 1st, 1st round pick on a European player. Quinn, Power, Savoie, Benson. He has used 3 first round picks on European players with Rosen, Kulich, Östlund, being the 3. Östlund and Rosen are certainly to this point more small and finesse. 42% of 1st round picks on Euro players. Now he has made 6 2nd round picks on Euro players for a 100% total of those picks. They are Peterka (good pick), Kisakov and Poltapov (meh), Leinonen (lol), and Wahlberg and Strbak. The only 2 that qualify is smaller or perhaps soft is Kisakov and maybe Poltapov (idk I never see him anymore). Wahlberg is 6'3" and Strbak is 6'3" and I would not call either soft. Leinonen is a goalie we can literally ignore cuz he's not relevant ever. 4 picks in the 3rd for Adams with a 2/2 spilt. 7 picks in the 4th and 5th round with only 2 European players. Rounds 6 and 7 are literally not worth looking at because like 1 maybe 2 of all those guys will ever play NHL games, you could draft them from Zimbabwe or Chicago, doesn't matter. 

All in all I count  3 smaller and softer Euro players from rounds 1-3. Since these are the most important rounds, I don't really care. I have to toss out the entire 2021 draft as Adams has said they went heavy in certain Euro leagues because they actually had data and played the season. Really, what I am getting at is there is no proof at all that Adams is somehow prioritizing small European born players at the expense of bigger, grittier, NA guys. In fact if we look at the 2023 draft, there is a sharp and marked push to draft bigger types of players. After Zach Benson, Adams didn't draft a player under 6'3" until we get to the goalie Ratzlaff in the 5th round. Wahlberg, Strbak, McCarthy, Miedema are all bigger and have some element of grit to their style. I am pretty down on Adams at the moment, but he already recognized that the team needed to add more size with grit to the pool and last draft is almost exclusively that. One last thought, Komarov and Novikov are both European players, I would not call either of them Soft and they are from rounds 5 and 6 respectively with NHL chances. 

When I speak of size, I really mean how they play... I understand that was clearly not clear. But again... Love Benson could he turn into a Marchand... who knows.. our team is littered with Big players who are not overly physical and quite honestly a bit nasty (Power, Tuch, Thompson... etc..) . I am not seeing this our of the players we have in the pipeline that are high on the prospect list. I would like to see more.  For once I want us to have identified a quality player in the pipeline who has that degree of nasty... I believe we need them to allow others to not only play their game, but feel free to play tougher without fear and up the level of team toughness.  I have seen this dance for a long time and I believe our philosophy and valuing of players needs to be adjusted. 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I get this wild feeling we are picking in the 1st tomorrow......

[LGR4GM]

I mean, I don't disagree except I think some of the prospects do have grit. Still Buffalo needs to value "hard to play against" more than they do. It is why I keep bringing up Nygard, he is a pain in the ass to play against. 

[Weave]

Nevermind.

[SABRES 0311]

So do we close this thread now?

[GASabresIUFAN]

There are 16 guys in this thread.  There will be at least 2 available at 14.

[JP51]

On 6/27/2024 at 1:12 PM, JP51 said:

When I speak of size, I really mean how they play... I understand that was clearly not clear. But again... Love Benson could he turn into a Marchand... who knows.. our team is littered with Big players who are not overly physical and quite honestly a bit nasty (Power, Tuch, Thompson... etc..) . I am not seeing this our of the players we have in the pipeline that are high on the prospect list. I would like to see more.  For once I want us to have identified a quality player in the pipeline who has that degree of nasty... I believe we need them to allow others to not only play their game, but feel free to play tougher without fear and up the level of team toughness.  I have seen this dance for a long time and I believe our philosophy and valuing of players needs to be adjusted. 

Aaaaaaaaand Adams takes another small European figure skater... 

[JP51]

He takes another European figure skater that plays small

[matter2003]

On 6/26/2024 at 6:09 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

You are confusing NHL roster with the lack of legit power forward prospects in the pipeline besides Wahlberg. 

And I hear he is about to join forces with the other Wahlberg's to open burger franchises.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, JP51 said:

Aaaaaaaaand Adams takes another small European figure skater... 

Assuming the likelihood there was not a suitable trade available, what player would you have preferred him to take?