NHL trade & FA rumors (Sabres & Non-Sabres)

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Hold on hold on, what's this I hear about us having a system last year? This is the first I'm hearing of it. 

Even no real system is a system when you played elsewhere first.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

Your attempts to try to characterize Byram as some kind of Marc-Andre Gragnani are getting tedious.

He played nearly 22 minutes a night in the same lineup as Dahlin and Power and averaged 20 as a baby on a Stanely Cup contender featuring Cale Makar and Sam Girard. He led all Avalanche defencemen in even-strength ice time in the Stanley Cup finals. How, in any way shape or form, is a player capable of that redundant?

The implication he’s a one trick PP specialist is ridiculous. He’s never got significant PP time in his career. What he’s been used for is significant ES time. He was 34th in the entire NHL last year in ES points by a defenceman, and 8th in ES goals. He was also 81st in hits and 111 in blocked shots - solid second-pair numbers in each category.

The implication he’s a train wreck defensively is a function of 15-game run at the end of this season as he adjusted to a different system, city and teammates while going through some form of family issue. For his career, his 5-on-5 Corsi is 51.1%.

Maybe the trade works out, maybe it doesn’t. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that Byram was the 1st defenceman taken in his draft class and excelled in the Stanley Cup finals. One-way players don’t do either. Or that he’s proven to be a good all-around NHL defenceman since then, despite injury setbacks. He’s an elite skater, with great hands and he competes. He is more talented than Mittelstadt and has accomplished more than Casey did at age 22.

Time will tell if that translates as a Sabre, or if it was worth the price paid, but let’s not diminish who he is already, never mind what he may become, or pretend there’s no possible way a player like him could help this team.

His D play and XGF and possession numbers have been slipping for the last 3 years.  It’s the reason he was traded.  His XGF for a Cup contender for the last 2 years were 47.27 and 47.94.  His Corsi the last 2 years with Col were 49.7 and 49.7.  Col was also cutting his PT the last 3 years from 21:53 down to 19:51.   The Sabres had him with 58% o zone starts to limit his defensive short comings.  

[Flashsabre]

 

[CallawaySabres]

If these rumors of Detroit getting players like Stamkos and Guentzel are true, we can just line up behind yet another real NHL team making moves and not praying that their own draft picks will save the team. And if they don't pay UPL, and just rely on Levi, they will reach a whole other level of stupid. 

[JohnC]

39 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

His D play and XGF and possession numbers have been slipping for the last 3 years.  It’s the reason he was traded.  His XGF for a Cup contender for the last 2 years were 47.27 and 47.94.  His Corsi the last 2 years with Col were 49.7 and 49.7.  Col was also cutting his PT the last 3 years from 21:53 down to 19:51.   The Sabres had him with 58% o zone starts to limit his defensive short comings.  

You are drowning yourself in numbers at the expense of not seeing the obvious: Both teams dealt an asset to address a particular need. Colorado needed a legitimate 2C; and Buffalo added a young first or second pairing defenseman to the group. This was a good hockey trade for each franchise. 

The deal that the GM made to acquire Byram will look better if he is able to acquire a 2/3 C this offseason. Your attitude toward the GM has become so prejudiced that you are either incapable or unwilling to objectively evaluate his transactions. It may surprise you that not all his dealings are wrong. That is not to say everything he has done is right. Let's just be a little fairer when evaluating his moves. 

[stinky finger]

14 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Thanks wookie, a freshly made bourbon and coke through the nostrils always clears my sinus 🤣 

Be kind to the bourbon. Forget the coke. 

[stinky finger]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Your attempts to try to characterize Byram as some kind of Marc-Andre Gragnani are getting tedious.

He played nearly 22 minutes a night in the same lineup as Dahlin and Power and averaged 20 as a baby on a Stanley Cup contender featuring Cale Makar and Sam Girard. He led all Avalanche defencemen in even-strength ice time in the Stanley Cup finals. How, in any way shape or form, is a player capable of that redundant?

The implication he’s a one trick PP specialist is ridiculous. He’s never got significant PP time in his career. What he’s been used for is significant ES time. He was 34th in the entire NHL last year in ES points by a defenceman, and 8th in ES goals. He was also 81st in hits and 111 in blocked shots - solid second-pair numbers in each category.

The implication he’s a train wreck defensively is a function of a 15-game run at the end of this season as he adjusted to a different system, city and teammates while going through some form of family issue. For his career, his 5-on-5 Corsi is 51.1%.

Maybe the trade works out, maybe it doesn’t. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that Byram was the 1st defenceman taken in his draft class and excelled in the Stanley Cup finals. One-way players don’t do either. Or that he’s proven to be a good all-around NHL defenceman since then, despite injury setbacks. He’s an elite skater, with great hands and he competes. He is more talented than Mittelstadt and has accomplished more than Casey did at age 22.

Time will tell if that translates as a Sabre, or if it was worth the price paid, but let’s not diminish who he is already, never mind what he may become, or pretend there’s no possible way a player like him could help this team.

This^^^

The outcry around here for trading CM puzzles me. Regardless of what one thinks of Byram. I liked the trade then and I do now. A full off-season and better coaching will prove this trade worthy. 

 

[Scottysabres]

Skinner buyout a done deal barring an unforeseen trade, Dom on Twitter confirming.

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Your attempts to try to characterize Byram as some kind of Marc-Andre Gragnani are getting tedious.

He played nearly 22 minutes a night in the same lineup as Dahlin and Power and averaged 20 as a baby on a Stanley Cup contender featuring Cale Makar and Sam Girard. He led all Avalanche defencemen in even-strength ice time in the Stanley Cup finals. How, in any way shape or form, is a player capable of that redundant?

The implication he’s a one trick PP specialist is ridiculous. He’s never got significant PP time in his career. What he’s been used for is significant ES time. He was 34th in the entire NHL last year in ES points by a defenceman, and 8th in ES goals. He was also 81st in hits and 111 in blocked shots - solid second-pair numbers in each category.

The implication he’s a train wreck defensively is a function of a 15-game run at the end of this season as he adjusted to a different system, city and teammates while going through some form of family issue. For his career, his 5-on-5 Corsi is 51.1%.

Maybe the trade works out, maybe it doesn’t. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that Byram was the 1st defenceman taken in his draft class and excelled in the Stanley Cup finals. One-way players don’t do either. Or that he’s proven to be a good all-around NHL defenceman since then, despite injury setbacks. He’s an elite skater, with great hands and he competes. He is more talented than Mittelstadt and has accomplished more than Casey did at age 22.

Time will tell if that translates as a Sabre, or if it was worth the price paid, but let’s not diminish who he is already, never mind what he may become, or pretend there’s no possible way a player like him could help this team.

Pretty sure he was a train wreck defensively all year to be fair. People keep touting the “Granato got his hands on him” thing but it’s erroneous: he was bad in Colorado this year 

Edited June 26 by Thorny

[ExWNYer]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

Skinner buyout a done deal barring an unforeseen trade, Dom on Twitter confirming.

Are they waiting to do something...anything...until after this is done? They can pull the trigger on Skinner at noon today. It's not actually "48 hours" after the end of the Stanley Cup Final.

[Thorny]

33 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are drowning yourself in numbers at the expense of not seeing the obvious: Both teams dealt an asset to address a particular need. Colorado needed a legitimate 2C; and Buffalo added a young first or second pairing defenseman to the group. This was a good hockey trade for each franchise. 

The deal that the GM made to acquire Byram will look better if he is able to acquire a 2/3 C this offseason. Your attitude toward the GM has become so prejudiced that you are either incapable or unwilling to objectively evaluate his transactions. It may surprise you that not all his dealings are wrong. That is not to say everything he has done is right. Let's just be a little fairer when evaluating his moves. 

No, not yet. Mittelstadt has been good for Colorado and Byram not so for buffalo. He still has to prove it. It’s not just automatically a good trade because the theory is sound 

Byram was *bad* last year. His metrics were the worst on the team and bad in Colorado. That’s not drowning in numbers in fact that suggestion is seriously laughable. You don’t just ignore the stats because you don’t like them and call people who put stock in them “drowning” 

the *idea* of the swap makes sense and there’s lots of runway for it to pan out: we will see this season. But we can’t call it a good trade yet if results are at all a consideration 

Edited June 26 by Thorny

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, ExWNYer said:

Are they waiting to do something...anything...until after this is done? They can pull the trigger on Skinner at noon today. It's not actually "48 hours" after the end of the Stanley Cup Final.

LG posted the actual tweet from Dom in the Skinner thread. Not sure what the plan is, nothing was mentioned outside of Skinner buyout.

[oddoublee]

8 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

LG posted the actual tweet from Dom in the Skinner thread. Not sure what the plan is, nothing was mentioned outside of Skinner buyout.

I suspect they are doing this because they plan to (attempt to) spend cash in FA this year to overhaul the bottom 6 of this unit. Economically, it makes sense to hold him a year and bury him in lesser minutes and utilize as needed when your team is down late in the game....unless of course you plan to use that money immediately in the 2024-25 season. 

[JohnC]

Just now, Thorny said:

No, not yet. Mittelstadt has been good for Colorado and Byram not so for buffalo. He still has to prove it. It’s not just automatically a good trade because the theory is sound 

Of course, Byram has more to prove. His play in his first few games in Bufalo were quite good. Then he struggled. That shouldn't be a surprise because he was playing a new system with unfamiliar players. Let's not forget that it took Mitts a few years before he player at a higher level. And let's not forget that Byram as a rookie was given a very responsible role on a cup winning team. 

It's not a question of who got the better deal/player. The issue is does making this deal fill a particular need for the respective teams. Again, this was a good hockey trade for each team. (My opinion.) This trade will look even better for Buffalo if the GM can bring in a 2/3 C to replace the traded player. 

[shrader]

23 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Skinner buyout a done deal barring an unforeseen trade, Dom on Twitter confirming.

Hasek?

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

Hasek?

Could be, never met the beat reporter, so......it's possible? 😉

[mjd1001]

23 minutes ago, oddoublee said:

I suspect they are doing this because they plan to (attempt to) spend cash in FA this year to overhaul the bottom 6 of this unit. Economically, it makes sense to hold him a year and bury him in lesser minutes and utilize as needed when your team is down late in the game....unless of course you plan to use that money immediately in the 2024-25 season. 

First of all, I think  Skinner has more value as a goal scorer and I don't think is negatives are  THAT bad so I would want to keep him, at least for another year...But...

He was not and never was going to be useful on a 4th line. So, he is/would be one of your top 6 wingers.  Tuch, Greenway, Benson, Peterka, and Quinn are going to be in 5 or those 6 spots. 

That leave Skinner competing with a trade/free agent aquisition, and ALL of the young guys trying to make this roster. 

When you consider his total 100 foot game, maybe the Sabres don't hate Skinner and want him gone yesterday...maybe its as simple as paying a guy who is now at an age he might be declining that much...when realistically you think you might get MORE from that trade/free agent guy and/or the young guys.

[mjd1001]

Also, I legit wonder if there is something really unexpected going to happen.  

The Sabres trade a younger asset (one most on this board REALLY like) because they just think the ceiling is a bit lower than we all do, or they know the young guy is good but they see a different direction they want to go. I'm talking a trade involving a Benson, Cozens, Bryam, Power, Quinn.....

I don't WANT to trade any of them, but maybe, just maybe (especially with Ruff's input), they just see something and they feel those guys have a ceiling 10% lower than we all think they do, and they move them out for a MAJOR asset in return they think will fit better?

Again, I'm not predicting that will happen, but this offseason it wouldn't shock me.

[kas23]

31 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Could be, never met the beat reporter, so......it's possible? 😉

Fwiw, Hasek beat a reporter. 

[thewookie1]

8 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Also, I legit wonder if there is something really unexpected going to happen.  

The Sabres trade a younger asset (one most on this board REALLY like) because they just think the ceiling is a bit lower than we all do, or they know the young guy is good but they see a different direction they want to go. I'm talking a trade involving a Benson, Cozens, Bryam, Power, Quinn.....

I don't WANT to trade any of them, but maybe, just maybe (especially with Ruff's input), they just see something and they feel those guys have a ceiling 10% lower than we all think they do, and they move them out for a MAJOR asset in return they think will fit better?

Again, I'm not predicting that will happen, but this offseason it wouldn't shock me.

Highly doubt any of those 5 are traded; I'd almost guarantee it. 

3 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Fwiw, Hasek beat a reporter. 

So he took "Beat Reporter" a different way

[LGR4GM]

There are almost no players in the league I would include Benson for in a trade package. I mean that, he plays exactly how I want more Sabres to play. 

[Thorny]

50 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Of course, Byram has more to prove. His play in his first few games in Bufalo were quite good. Then he struggled. That shouldn't be a surprise because he was playing a new system with unfamiliar players. Let's not forget that it took Mitts a few years before he player at a higher level. And let's not forget that Byram as a rookie was given a very responsible role on a cup winning team. 

It's not a question of who got the better deal/player. The issue is does making this deal fill a particular need for the respective teams. Again, this was a good hockey trade for each team. (My opinion.) This trade will look even better for Buffalo if the GM can bring in a 2/3 C to replace the traded player. 

He hasn’t addressed any need to the extent losing Mittelstadt has so far added to another. I agree with you it’s not about which player ends up better, though. But it IS about whether or not our TEAM improves and I don’t think there’s much to demonstrate, yet, that we are improved by having Byram over Casey. Stats indicate we were worse off for it this most recent year. If Byram played exactly as he has so far in Buffalo going forward, it wouldn’t be enough. We are counting on some of the previous flashes dudacek pointed out materializing in a meaningful way again 

and also, as you pointed out, the corresponding C move from KA

Edited June 26 by Thorny

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I’ve been thinking about this specific to Casey.  Mitts netted the Sabres a top four D, which Buffalo doesn’t have anywhere near their current pipeline.  But the Sabres do have potential top six forwards to play Casey’s role very soon. 
 

If we can agree that Tage, Tuch, Skinner, Cozens, JJP are locked as top six forwards (let’s see what happens with Skinner—but the financial commitment remains either way), it’s a lot easier to elevate Quinn to the top six and not lose much…than it is to elevate Ryan Johnson to the top four. I think you lose a lot there & Byram is a huge upgrade over RyJo. But Mitts is not a huge upgrade over Quinn (assuming Quinn’s trajectory continues). Maybe this is a hot take? But not to me. 
 

Mitts being a near 6MM player is a luxury this team won’t be able to afford. To use him to acquire Byram was a good move. I understand this take may not be super popular, but I get what the Sabres are trying to do.  

Are you saying the Sabres are making moves so that they don't get too good?   They already had Quinn and Mitts, Adams job is to make the roster better.  

To my thinking we just cannot fully evaluate the Mitts trade until we see, (1) who they replace Mitts with; and (2) how Byram plays over a full season.   Is Byram a top 4 or top 2 guy and why did Colorado think otherwise?  Does Byram really bring what we need given we have Dahlin and Power? 

I wanted a top 4 guy that moves people out of the space in front of UPL.   I still do and I saw a ton of that in the Cup final.  

As for Adams not ever talking to Mitts agent about an extension, that speak volumes.  

[oddoublee]

30 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

First of all, I think  Skinner has more value as a goal scorer and I don't think is negatives are  THAT bad so I would want to keep him, at least for another year...But...

He was not and never was going to be useful on a 4th line. So, he is/would be one of your top 6 wingers.  Tuch, Greenway, Benson, Peterka, and Quinn are going to be in 5 or those 6 spots. 

That leave Skinner competing with a trade/free agent aquisition, and ALL of the young guys trying to make this roster. 

When you consider his total 100 foot game, maybe the Sabres don't hate Skinner and want him gone yesterday...maybe its as simple as paying a guy who is now at an age he might be declining that much...when realistically you think you might get MORE from that trade/free agent guy and/or the young guys.

i never said bury him on a 4th line. but on he should not be getting more than 13-14 minutes a night on a good team. He is player that should be leveraged solely based on matchups and game situations (imo). If you are playing a piss poor defensive team, sick him on em. If you are playing a team with a insanely good first line that requires you to matchup your line that best blend shutdown and scoring touch...his minutes should be low in a game like that. 

for 9 million, i want a guy who can play reliably 17-19 minutes a night - or more if the situation warrants it. i just dont believe he is that guy. 

[JP51]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

There are almost no players in the league I would include Benson for in a trade package. I mean that, he plays exactly how I want more Sabres to play. 

Agreed 100% lets just hope this team doesnt beat the fight out of him like so many others.