Thorny Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 (edited) 11 hours ago, Doohickie said: In a vacuum I think buying out Skinner makes the Sabres worse. Just like trading Mitts made the team worse. If Kevyn made the complementary moves everyone on this forum thinks they need, then yes it could make the team better, but simply removing Skinner from the roster will not make the Sabres better without him. Just like they were not better with Byram instead of Mitts. When he traded Reino you could see the return and it is apparent Kevyn sees Levi as the goalie of the future. When he traded Eichel he got Tuch (who has proven to be a team leader) plus another roster player (Krebs) plus 2022 first-round pick (Noah Östlund) and 2023 second-round pick (Riley Heidt- who?) When he traded Mitts he got Byram back in a one-for-one. Maybe Byram will prove me wrong, but I just didn't see the need to bring in yet another young Dman and I don't think he fills an obviously need while losing Mitts created a big hole. When you look at what Adams gave up versus what he got back in the Eichel and Reino trades, you could see the value proposition and how it benefited the Sabres. Also, those trades where transformational in terms of changing the direction of team and the way the roster is constructed. Trading Mitts created a hole that still needs to be filled, and losing Skinner would create yet another hole on offense, at a time when "transformation" should be done and the team should be competitive. Agree, it’s not addition by subtraction. It’s cute that some think the Buffalo Sabres are a big boy team with a culture and system we can protect by hypothetically giving up our 3rd leading goal scorer. The Sabres have no leg to stand on, no one running anything is better at their job than Jeff skinner is at his. The Sabres can buy out Skinner and treat it like addition by subtraction, playing dress up in their dad’s closet as the rest of the teams go to work, but it’ll only be beneficial, like some are saying, if we use all the cash on good veterans Edited June 20 by Thorny 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 9 hours ago, inkman said: He’s also pretty terrible at just about everything not including finishing plays. He can score, when given the puck within 15 feet of the net. Everything else, especially when he touches the puck, is negative. I don’t really ever need to see him on the PP again. Constantly passing the puck into terrible areas. Is $7 mill enough to “remake the roster”? That’s maybe 1-2 good players. He’s the biggest reason we GET to the PP 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted June 20 Author Report Share Posted June 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, sabremike said: Skinner was 100% traded because he wasn't re signing with the Canes because he wanted to be closer to home (which is LITERALLY the reason he was traded to us: It was the only place he would waive his NMC to go to). The whole "RBA got rid of him" thing some people are pushing is absolute made up fantasy *****. “The way Granato talks about Skinner now is quite the contrast to how the Hurricanes spoke about when he left. Rod Brind’Amour had been an assistant with the Hurricanes before taking over as head coach. When he took over, the Skinner trade quickly followed. Back then, he wasn’t shy about his thoughts. “I think it sends a message of what kind of Hurricane we’re looking for, what kind of player we want,” Brind’Amour had said. “Everybody’s available. You’ve got to produce, you’ve got to do the things we’re asking you to do, otherwise you’re not safe. So it was the right move. I think the guys understand you’ve got to come ready to play and do what we’re asking. Otherwise you’re not a Hurricane. We can’t have you.” At the time, general manager Don Waddell said the team wanted to make some changes, “culturally.” Let’s not pretend they wanted him to stay and loved him. They didn’t make the playoffs once with Skinner they have made it every year since he left. Edited June 20 by Flashsabre 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 15 minutes ago, Thorny said: Agree, it’s not addition by subtraction. It’s cute that some think the Buffalo Sabres are a big boy team with a culture and system we can protect by hypothetically giving up our 3rd leading goal scorer. The Sabres have no leg to stand on, no one running anything is better at their job than Jeff skinner is at his. The Sabres can buy out Skinner and treat it like addition by subtraction, playing dress up in their dad’s closet as the rest of the teams go to work, but it’ll only be beneficial, like some are saying, if we use all the cash on good veterans Which seems unlikely. They already have a ton of space to do that anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, shrader said: I don’t know if it’s been mentioned already or not. That guy was picked by Minnesota. That pick was traded there in the Greenway deal. Ah. No wonder I never heard of him. So we cashed in one of those Futures for a Present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 41 minutes ago, Flashsabre said: “The way Granato talks about Skinner now is quite the contrast to how the Hurricanes spoke about when he left. Rod Brind’Amour had been an assistant with the Hurricanes before taking over as head coach. When he took over, the Skinner trade quickly followed. Back then, he wasn’t shy about his thoughts. “I think it sends a message of what kind of Hurricane we’re looking for, what kind of player we want,” Brind’Amour had said. “Everybody’s available. You’ve got to produce, you’ve got to do the things we’re asking you to do, otherwise you’re not safe. So it was the right move. I think the guys understand you’ve got to come ready to play and do what we’re asking. Otherwise you’re not a Hurricane. We can’t have you.” At the time, general manager Don Waddell said the team wanted to make some changes, “culturally.” Let’s not pretend they wanted him to stay and loved him. They didn’t make the playoffs once with Skinner they have made it every year since he left. Yeah, this clearly wasn't pushing a narrative to fans because they had to trade one of their best players for a bag of rocks... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 48 minutes ago, Thorny said: He’s the biggest reason we GET to the PP I think him and Benson pulled the most PP for our team last year. Not any stats out there for that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 34 minutes ago, Huckleberry said: I think him and Benson pulled the most PP for our team last year. Not any stats out there for that? Penalties drawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Shannon's +/- Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 He's such a weird player. Seems to grade out well in terms of 5 on 5 expected play. Hilarious lack of effort in the defensive zone. Not good on the power play and not a guy that's trusted much in 3 vs 3 OT. Just the furthest thing from a complete player. Personally hoping the buyout rumors are pressure to get him to accept a trade out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Huckleberry said: I think him and Benson pulled the most PP for our team last year. Not any stats out there for that? Skinner slipped in this category last year. Historically, he's been among the league's best. 6th on the team in penalties drawn with 17. League-wide he's tied for 173rd. 7th in penalties drawn per 60 among Sabres regulars. Peterka was far and away the leader. Edited June 20 by dudacek 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 Ok I was way off then 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted June 20 Author Report Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, sabremike said: Yeah, this clearly wasn't pushing a narrative to fans because they had to trade one of their best players for a bag of rocks... You can believe whatever you want. But they changed their culture and have been a playoff team ever since he left while they weren’t one with him and the Sabres haven’t made the playoffs with him. It was the right move for them to change the culture. Let’s hope the Sabres do the same thing. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 4 hours ago, sabremike said: Skinner was 100% traded because he wasn't re signing with the Canes because he wanted to be closer to home (which is LITERALLY the reason he was traded to us: It was the only place he would waive his NMC to go to). The whole "RBA got rid of him" thing some people are pushing is absolute made up fantasy *****. Got a link to support this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 39 minutes ago, Flashsabre said: You can believe whatever you want. But they changed their culture and have been a playoff team ever since he left while they weren’t one with him and the Sabres haven’t made the playoffs with him. It was the right move for them to change the culture. Let’s hope the Sabres do the same thing. Yeah, it was magic culture change getting rid of Skinner and not the fact that their near historically bad goaltending that was killing them when the advanced stats said they should be a cup contender improved. Scott Darling made Carter Hutton look like Hasek, that's how bad their goaltending sucked. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 2 hours ago, Flashsabre said: “The way Granato talks about Skinner now is quite the contrast to how the Hurricanes spoke about when he left. Rod Brind’Amour had been an assistant with the Hurricanes before taking over as head coach. When he took over, the Skinner trade quickly followed. Back then, he wasn’t shy about his thoughts. “I think it sends a message of what kind of Hurricane we’re looking for, what kind of player we want,” Brind’Amour had said. “Everybody’s available. You’ve got to produce, you’ve got to do the things we’re asking you to do, otherwise you’re not safe. So it was the right move. I think the guys understand you’ve got to come ready to play and do what we’re asking. Otherwise you’re not a Hurricane. We can’t have you.” At the time, general manager Don Waddell said the team wanted to make some changes, “culturally.” Let’s not pretend they wanted him to stay and loved him. They didn’t make the playoffs once with Skinner they have made it every year since he left. There's been talk now and again that Adams plan is to copy Carolina. I am hoping this is also part of that plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 18 minutes ago, sabremike said: Yeah, it was magic culture change getting rid of Skinner and not the fact that their near historically bad goaltending that was killing them when the advanced stats said they should be a cup contender improved. Scott Darling made Carter Hutton look like Hasek, that's how bad their goaltending sucked. Their on ice style and persona changed entirely. You have forgotten this but if you compare the way they played before that move to after it is night and day. Yes, it's Brind'Amour, but he needed a locker room he could work with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 (edited) 47 minutes ago, sabremike said: Yeah, it was magic culture change getting rid of Skinner and not the fact that their near historically bad goaltending that was killing them when the advanced stats said they should be a cup contender improved. Scott Darling made Carter Hutton look like Hasek, that's how bad their goaltending sucked. Why look to causation when magical correlation is sitting right there! This is sabrespace Skinner fell to 3rd in goals and 4th in penalties drawn among all of our forwards so clearly we’d be better without him (of course, we weight Adams’ 2022-23 season above his most recent and decline to do so with skinner because reasons) If you average out his stats by years on this planet he’s actually behind Josh bloom and Isak Rosen. If you look at the per 60 rate, per square of potential, per inch of “want to be here” he’s actually eliminating past playoff wins from our record books Edited June 20 by Thorny 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, nfreeman said: Got a link to support this? A quick google search reveals just as much message board speculation out there on this as there is the Rod thing. Depends on what you believe. There’s no definitive answer or link that can be posted. I could post a quote from their GM that while I wouldn’t put stock in outright, I’d certainly put as much stock in as anything else I’d read here, as he literally says the reason is what sabremike mentioned. https://thehockeywriters.com/hurricanes-trade-jeff-skinner/ Waddell continued, “However, with Jeff becoming an unrestricted free agent next summer, this was the right time for us to move on, and to provide Jeff with a fresh start in Buffalo. We talked to every team in the league over the past four months, and ultimately the Sabres were the team that provided us with the best value in return, including three picks and a prospect we like in Cliff Pu.” Edited June 20 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: A quick google search reveals just as much message board speculation out there on this as there is the Rod thing. Depends on what you believe. It could be both. It could be that the Hurricane's GM thought it was time to move Skinner for something rather than lose him for nothing and that the head coach thought Skinner wasn't a great fit for what he wanted to do. The part of all this that I reject is that Carolina could not have turned it around, and that we can't now turn it around, with Skinner. Of course, Skinner has been a factor in the performances of every team he has been on. But he is not the reason the Sabres have missed the playoffs the last 6 years. That said, if Pegula is willing to spend the cap savings that would be gained with a buyout next week, then there is without question a better team that could be built without Skinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 1 minute ago, Archie Lee said: It could be both. It could be that the Hurricane's GM thought it was time to move Skinner for something rather than lose him for nothing and that the head coach thought Skinner wasn't a great fit for what he wanted to do. The part of all this that I reject is that Carolina could not have turned it around, and that we can't now turn it around, with Skinner. Of course, Skinner has been a factor in the performances of every team he has been on. But he is not the reason the Sabres have missed the playoffs the last 6 years. That said, if Pegula is willing to spend the cap savings that would be gained with a buyout next week, then there is without question a better team that could be built without Skinner. I would say he’s not “a” reason we’ve missed. There’s a multitude of other roster positions that, had they been addressed, what Skinner provided was reasonably slotted into one component of a playoff team. He’s not even close to that end of the list, he’s been an enormous net positive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 23 minutes ago, Thorny said: A quick google search reveals just as much message board speculation out there on this as there is the Rod thing. Depends on what you believe. There’s no definitive answer or link that can be posted. I could post a quote from their GM that while I wouldn’t put stock in outright, I’d certainly put as much stock in as anything else I’d read here, as he literally says the reason is what sabremike mentioned. https://thehockeywriters.com/hurricanes-trade-jeff-skinner/ Waddell continued, “However, with Jeff becoming an unrestricted free agent next summer, this was the right time for us to move on, and to provide Jeff with a fresh start in Buffalo. We talked to every team in the league over the past four months, and ultimately the Sabres were the team that provided us with the best value in return, including three picks and a prospect we like in Cliff Pu.” I do remember for a fact that part of our reason for being able to get him was location Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 36 minutes ago, Thorny said: Waddell continued, “However, with Jeff becoming an unrestricted free agent next summer, this was the right time for us to move on, and to provide Jeff with a fresh start in Buffalo. We talked to every team in the league over the past four months, and ultimately the Sabres were the team that provided us with the best value in return, including three picks and a prospect we like in Cliff Pu.” This and the Rod the Bod quote are like good cop/bad cop; one supports the other. Especially with Waddell using the phrase "fresh start". Why would Skinner need a fresh start? None of this really matters, though, because we have our own issues with Skinner. For a $9m cap hit and using a High School Musical song for his goal song he needs to have a two-way game full stop. For that matter, Owen "Don't hurt me" Power better live up to his $8.35m cap hit or his snowflake keister should get traded the heck out of here, too. It's bad enough Cozens and Dangles couldn't bother to earn their keep, we have more expensive property stinking up the ice? Why does anyone tolerate this nonsense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 1 minute ago, ... said: This and the Rod the Bod quote are like good cop/bad cop; one supports the other. Especially with Waddell using the phrase "fresh start". Why would Skinner need a fresh start? None of this really matters, though, because we have our own issues with Skinner. For a $9m cap hit and using a High School Musical song for his goal song he needs to have a two-way game full stop. For that matter, Owen "Don't hurt me" Power better live up to his $8.35m cap hit or his snowflake keister should get traded the heck out of here, too. It's bad enough Cozens and Dangles couldn't bother to earn their keep, we have more expensive property stinking up the ice? Why does anyone tolerate this nonsense? Skinner is like 95% of other players in this league. They have their flaws. You either find the right mix, or you don’t, and the fact of the matter is that when you are bringing these guys IN they are their strengths and when you are shipping them OUT they are their weaknesses. Doesn’t matter if it’s Zac Efron or Zack Morris, saved by the bell or high school musical, that’s the way spin works 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 (edited) @Thorny is running to be president of the Jeff Skinner fan club. His dream is to sit between two stalls. Edited June 20 by PerreaultForever 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 Here’s a question Skinner & Krebs for Rakell and Accari We save cap and replace both players Rakell, we can use for a year or two then buy him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts