Thorny Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, pi2000 said: In this modern version of the sport, fighting is pointless. Back in the day those guys filled a role and it was the only way they could stay employed. I think that’s certainly valid, my opinion on it has changed significantly since I was a kid, it’s just difficult to parse how much of that is me changing and how much is, to your point, the league. That it made way more sense before seems plausible to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 18 minutes ago, pi2000 said: I miss 80's and 90's hockey. Today's game feels like watching an All-Star game... a bunch of skill guys buzzing around trying to out skate and dangle each other. Head-down? Doesn't matter... it takes zero courage or toughness to succeed as a professional hockey player, just make sure your parents pay enough for private lessons when you're playing youth hockey. Can't afford private lessons? Find another sport. The days of out hustling, out hitting, playing with reckless abandon to fill a role are gone. As a result, the game is now more popular with a different crowd... those who didn't like the aggressive nature of the sport and simply enjoy watching the speed and skill. And that's OK. That said, I hope Lindy adds 1 or 2 throwback type players to the 4th line... Tom Wilson, Garnet Hathaway, Dakota Joshua types. Hustling and hitting are not gone in the games I watch. In the playoffs, that rough and tough aspect of the game are even more pronounced. One of the reasons why the Sabres have been an inconsequential team is because they lack the physicality that good teams have. Playing tough hockey is not about fighting; it's about playing harder and tougher. Fighting is irrelevant to that aspect of the game. In reality, most fights are contrived where the combatants agree in advance to drop their glovers. It's so stupid and idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 6 hours ago, LGR4GM said: If you you're a Sabre who needs this, I hope Adams trades you yesterday. Fully fine with adding more grit and guys who can rough-house more. I don't need Cozens being the one dropping gloves if someone else can address it but if you are a Sabre and are afraid to get in a scrum without someone else "standing up for you" I have no time for you. So you basically have no time for the entire current roster (except maybe Krebs and Greenway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-U-F-F-A-L-O Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 15 hours ago, dudacek said: Not sure who caught Lindy’s recent lengthy Buffalo TV interview, but he pretty much said he wants to add somebody who can chuck ‘em. Not in so many words, but in response to a question about it, he acknowledged he’s a coach who likes to have “tools” and said a young team can use somebody who makes them feel brave. Said he’s had many, many conversations with Kevyn about what the team needs. He said, maybe one or two, tougher guys….. I feel absolutely certain it should be two and that they had both have the ability to help the team win in other very solid ways…. We need two way guys that don’t take crap and that they psyched up their teammates to toughen up…. That’s what we need. A fighting only player is kind of dumb, imho. It is also important that the team knows in very certain terms that these guys aren’t there to fight their battles. That they definitely need to toughen up big time if we are going to go anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 (edited) 4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: So you basically have no time for the entire current roster (except maybe Krebs and Greenway). Why Krebs and not Dahlin? Because Krebs is a small little agitator who we expect nothing of? Dahlin’s actual “grit” output far exceeds most players on the team. It’s like, if you have skill, and display it, that actively counts against the physicality you show. Krebs provides no aptitude of note, offensively, defensively or otherwise, other than a piece of paper that states who he was traded for, but he smiles in scrums after the whistle so he’s cool Dahlin has been a dickish, borderline dirty at times MFER on that ice for several years now. Even I’ve noticed that and I watch half as much Edited June 18 by Thorny 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: Why Krebs and not Dahlin? Because Krebs is a small little agitator who we expect nothing of? Dahlin’s actual “grit” output far exceeds most players on the team. It’s like, if you have skill, and display it, that actively counts against the physicality you show. Krebs provides no aptitude of note, offensively, defensively or otherwise, other than a piece of paper that states who he was traded for, but he smiles in scrums after the whistle so he’s cool Dahlin has been a dickish, borderline dirty at times MFER on that ice for several years now. Even I’ve noticed that and I watch half as much I’m ok if you remove your “thanks” On that @dudacek as I added a somewhat egregious shot at Krebs just as you reacted. I know you value his defensive output My points stands tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 One only needs to look at how effective Philadelphia's 4th line was with Hathaway and DesLauriers to see how this works. You want both these guys (similar types) on your roster. DesLauriers did not dress every night and that's how it should be but they did set the tone many nights and were sometimes the best line. Hathaway type can fight and play but you don't ask him to take on the heavyweights like Reeves. It's a cancelling effect. If you make the playoffs your DesLauriers probably never sees the ice, but over the 80 plus games you need that cancelling effect since there is a Maroon and a Jeannot and a Reeves etc in your division. A fourth line that is a Hathaway type, a journeyman defensively responsible center or a young guy of the same type, and a heavyweight is a good 4th line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 18 Author Report Share Posted June 18 Just now, Thorny said: I’m ok if you remove your “thanks” On that @dudacek as I added a somewhat egregious shot at Krebs just as you reacted. I know you value his defensive output The gist of the post remains the ongoing willful blindness to a big part of Dahlin's game. I remain thankful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 (edited) I know there’s a huge disconnect with Dahlin B/c hardly anyone wants him to be captain. Have you seen how many penalties the dude takes? A letter on his chest..anything thst aids his relationship with the officials is what we want Dahlin needs the C. I’m sorry for tooting my own horn here but I made this point before and it didn’t gain any traction and forgive me but I think it’s the most salient factor re: picking a captain so I’m making it again he needs to be able to get away with more dirty stuff: because he will seize the opportunity if available I guarantee you that “the officials hate the sabres” - you need to actively curry said favour. Edited June 18 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 6 minutes ago, Thorny said: Why Krebs and not Dahlin? Because Krebs is a small little agitator who we expect nothing of? Dahlin’s actual “grit” output far exceeds most players on the team. It’s like, if you have skill, and display it, that actively counts against the physicality you show. Krebs provides no aptitude of note, offensively, defensively or otherwise, other than a piece of paper that states who he was traded for, but he smiles in scrums after the whistle so he’s cool Dahlin has been a dickish, borderline dirty at times MFER on that ice for several years now. Even I’ve noticed that and I watch half as much Interesting point and actually why we definitely need a guy who will "chuck 'em". If we get better/good we will be taken more seriously and Dahlin will be targeted and his dirty stuff (which I agree he does, especially that reverse hit which pisses people off) will cause more reaction and you dont' want him dropping the gloves so once again you need the defender to cancel some of that out. Krebs could be that guy who fits between a Hathaway and a DesLauriers type to make that line work IF he focuses on his role and his defensive play. I'm not sure he's the right guy for that but he could grow into it if he embraces and accepts it. 3 minutes ago, Thorny said: I know there’s a huge disconnect with Dahlin B/c hardly anyone wants him to be captain. Have you seen how many penalties the dude takes? A letter on his chest..anything thst aids his relationship with the officials is what we want Dahlin needs the C. I’m sorry for tooting my own horn here but I made this point before and it didn’t gain any traction and forgive me but I think it’s the most salient factor re: picking a captain so I’m making it again he needs to be able to get away with more dirty stuff: because he will seize the opportunity if available I guarantee you that Captains don't get away with dirty stuff. Just ask Marchand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said: Interesting point and actually why we definitely need a guy who will "chuck 'em". If we get better/good we will be taken more seriously and Dahlin will be targeted and his dirty stuff (which I agree he does, especially that reverse hit which pisses people off) will cause more reaction and you dont' want him dropping the gloves so once again you need the defender to cancel some of that out. Krebs could be that guy who fits between a Hathaway and a DesLauriers type to make that line work IF he focuses on his role and his defensive play. I'm not sure he's the right guy for that but he could grow into it if he embraces and accepts it. Captains don't get away with dirty stuff. Just ask Marchand. He absolutely gets away with FAR FAR more than he used to, the narrative absolutely changed on Marchand over the years a) aptitude B) his vet leadership / perceived vet leadership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, Thorny said: He absolutely gets away with FAR FAR more than he used to, the narrative absolutely changed on Marchand over the years a) aptitude B) his vet leadership / perceived vet leadership Nope. Quite the reverse. He gets liberties taken on him and refs assume he deserved it (which as a Buffalo fan you think yes, yes he does deserve it, I get it) but he's far more controlled than he used to be as he is captain and does lead by example as captains should, but he still gets put in that sin bin a lot for even the slightest things. He's not the guy he was 10 years ago. Not by any stretch. Just reputation, which he can't shake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 Just now, PerreaultForever said: Nope. Quite the reverse. He gets liberties taken on him and refs assume he deserved it (which as a Buffalo fan you think yes, yes he does deserve it, I get it) but he's far more controlled than he used to be as he is captain and does lead by example as captains should, but he still gets put in that sin bin a lot for even the slightest things. He's not the guy he was 10 years ago. Not by any stretch. Just reputation, which he can't shake. It’s interesting cause we absolutely have a differing analysis of how he’s perceived. To me, and I’ve heard others mention this, since perhaps the time of his excellent world championships performance for Canada ~ a decade ago he’s seen much more in the all-around sense and pigeonholed less so as a dirty agitator with ability. I don’t seem him getting targeted by the refs at all(his penalty count certainly doesn’t reflect that) and he still takes his cheap shots Here’s an uncalled slew-foot dangerously close to the boards from 2 years ago 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranky old man Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 Lindy knows that without players who are willing to fight and or have that extra punishment in their game, the Sabres will continue to be pushed around by the better teams. Think about pivotal games against the Wings last year. Once they got physical, the Sabres melted. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 14 minutes ago, Cranky old man said: Lindy knows that without players who are willing to fight and or have that extra punishment in their game, the Sabres will continue to be pushed around by the better teams. Think about pivotal games against the Wings last year. Once they got physical, the Sabres melted. I concur. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 Man I really hope we make the playoffs I want ruff to succeed so badly again 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 4 hours ago, Thorny said: So the priority is toughness? Old school coach brought back, old school philosophy? I admitted at the time the hire was in large part an attempt to invigorate the fan base (a very successful one at that, I found it exciting), but…is..is that all there is to it? You know there is much more to it. But toughness is one important part. We saw that Lindy did a very good job with the Devils, he didn't get fired because the game has not passed him by. He has to have enough left in his tank to elevate both the game and the mindset of the players that we committed to. The team could use a few tough players but they themselves have to be tougher too. Watching the Cup final, you can see that toughness is still a part of the game. We all know that Florida has a physical team, but I have never seen Edmonton play as physical as they have in this series. They may be losing but is not because they are intimidated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, Pimlach said: You know there is much more to it. But toughness is one important part. We saw that Lindy did a very good job with the Devils, he didn't get fired because the game has not passed him by. He has to have enough left in his tank to elevate both the game and the mindset of the players that we committed to. The team could use a few tough players but they themselves have to be tougher too. Watching the Cup final, you can see that toughness is still a part of the game. We all know that Florida has a physical team, but I have never seen Edmonton play as physical as they have in this series. They may be losing but is not because they are intimidated. And that is a big part of why it is very plausible that should this Sabres team get to the playoffs, that they'll be able to "step out of character" so to speak and play tougher too. It's almost impossible to play physically AND at the very top of your game for 82 games for over 6 months; but when you might only have to do it for a week and a half (but hopefully for 2 more months) and the other team is getting just as beat up as you while you're playing that way, it becomes an accomplishable task. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 3 hours ago, Thorny said: It’s interesting cause we absolutely have a differing analysis of how he’s perceived. To me, and I’ve heard others mention this, since perhaps the time of his excellent world championships performance for Canada ~ a decade ago he’s seen much more in the all-around sense and pigeonholed less so as a dirty agitator with ability. I don’t seem him getting targeted by the refs at all(his penalty count certainly doesn’t reflect that) and he still takes his cheap shots Here’s an uncalled slew-foot dangerously close to the boards from 2 years ago This is a Sabres site so you are absolutely correct. Nobody ever targets Marchand. Enjoy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 11 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: This is a Sabres site so you are absolutely correct. Nobody ever targets Marchand. Enjoy. That was niiice. But had hoped to see a bit more skewered spleen. There was almost no skewered spleen. And him overskating the puck on a penalty shot isn't exactly getting "destroyed." Would sue for false advertising, but did actually get full monetary value from it (exactly what was paid) so pretty sure there isn't a case to be made. 🍻 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, Taro T said: That was niiice. But had hoped to see a bit more skewered spleen. There was almost no skewered spleen. And him overskating the puck on a penalty shot isn't exactly getting "destroyed." Would sue for false advertising, but did actually get full monetary value from it (exactly what was paid) so pretty sure there isn't a case to be made. 🍻 I knew Sabres fans would enjoy that and why not? I get it. Needs an update with the sneaky shot Bennett gave him this year. That was classic and totally targeted. You have to admire what Marchand said about it though. "It's playoff hockey. I've been on the other end of that and have no issue with it." I can't imagine a current Sabre or Sabres fans saying that about a sucker punch leading to a concussion. I'm hoping that with Ruff in charge, this might all change. Hopefully, but still skeptical. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeezo Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 6 hours ago, Thorny said: So the priority is toughness? Old school coach brought back, old school philosophy? I admitted at the time the hire was in large part an attempt to invigorate the fan base (a very successful one at that, I found it exciting), but…is..is that all there is to it? Lindy was brought in with a proven record to win in today's nhl too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said: This is a Sabres site so you are absolutely correct. Nobody ever targets Marchand. Enjoy. I’m not biased Sabres guy lol I never bitch about Marchand. He’s what he is I don’t care. Just pointing out how I think his general perception has changed disregard at will he takes, and gives cheap shots - my point is about the perception changing not so much his play which wasn’t even what my original point about Dahlin was about now I think about this. I don’t care about your bruins stuff lol 13 minutes ago, Freeezo said: Lindy was brought in with a proven record to win in today's nhl too. I can get behind that Edited June 19 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said: I knew Sabres fans would enjoy that and why not? I get it. Needs an update with the sneaky shot Bennett gave him this year. That was classic and totally targeted. You have to admire what Marchand said about it though. "It's playoff hockey. I've been on the other end of that and have no issue with it." I can't imagine a current Sabre or Sabres fans saying that about a sucker punch leading to a concussion. I'm hoping that with Ruff in charge, this might all change. Hopefully, but still skeptical. You get that his post wasn’t so much reflective of enjoyment as the fact he’s saying he got full value only because he paid nothing, right? I think that went over your head based on your response 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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