OT- More WNY Love - Rochester/Buffalo both ranked top 6 in most affordable cities in the world

[Weave]

8 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Just wait til Gen Z takes over the workforce and those numbers will plummet. 

Working hard to them means having to get off their phones for 15 minutes an hour and actually do what they are being paid to do. 

You’ve got to stop living in fear of change and let the generations following you do their thing.  

[matter2003]

12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think in many ways it probably is comparable to Edmonton. About the same size and winter sucks (they have more cold, you have more snow and I would guess wind chill and that lake induced dampness that makes it feel colder than it is). There are bad areas and run down parts but also nice areas and some high end burbs. Both cities a little lacking in culture and entertainment compared to some places. 

In no way am I shitting on Buffalo, just saying "affordability" is a double edged sword. Understandable as a settle for this could be worse kind of choice if you can't afford the better one, but in no way does it make it desirable. 

Lacking in culture?  Are you insane? Buffalo has more culture than many of the bigger cities in this country where they tried to "create" it instead of actually having it happen organically like it did here since the time the city was founded. Did you know people literally come from all over the world to see Buffalo's architecture?  In architectural circles it is considered a "must see" location.

We are also the festival capital of the US and have some of the largest festivals in the country. People come from all over the US to the Taste of Buffalo that draws north of 600K people and is the largest 2 day food festival in the country with only the week long Taste of Chicago drawing more people overall, the Allentown Arts festival is one of the oldest in the country, our Dyngus Day celebration is the largest in the entire world. The Erie County Fair is the 2nd largest county fair in the US, with only the Los Angeles County fair in California being bigger.

You want to talk about culture?  This was the richest city per capita in the entire US in 1900. There are plenty of "cultural" items left over from that time period here that didn't need to be artificially created like they have in many other places.  Unlike many places where they demolished their old historic buildings to build new modern cookie cutter buildings that all look the same, Buffalo has largely restored and saved it's historic sites. There are more and more old places undergoing renovations every year now. Culture isn't how modern and "cool" you can make a place, it's the history and the preservation of that history that creates it's culture and Buffalo does that as well as any other place in this country.

Edited June 18 by matter2003

[mjd1001]

7 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Man, Buffalo is not lacking in culture. It has it in spades. It might not have the pretentious kind of culture some people some people are into (not my type of people), but there is nothing in Vancouver remotely comparable as a cultural experience to a Bills tailgate.

Then there's the chicken wing. Maybe it's not fine dining, but it's one of the the most beloved foods in North America... A cultural institution. 

If you want to get your nose up, the Albright Knox and the Buffalo Philharmonic both punch way above their weight... Not to mention the history with Frank Lloyd Wright, McKinley Assassination, etc. 

My take on it is that Buffalo doesn't try to be anything but Buffalo. It knows what it likes, and doesn't care what anyone else thinks. From this comes culture.

On the other side of me is Toronto. They are the try-hards of world cities and as a result have very little to call their own on a world stage. CN Tower... Maybe. Hockey... Maybe, but I'm taking Montreal as a hockey city.

Montreal is another city that like Buffalo doesn't try to be anything but itself. As a result, you get a much cooler city... Better parties/festivals, more culinary contributions (bagels, smoked meat, poutine, etc), better hockey culture, etc.

I agree with almost everything you say. People tend to equate 'culture' with 'big cities' and that isn't always true. What is 'culture'? Do you judge a city on quantity of culture or quality of culture.  In many/most cases it simply becomes a contest of people comparing' their' city to 'other places', not by what 'culture' they like, but by what they can look up on a list to defend their argument.

Plus we all have things we like.  I tried, I really did but for the life of me I do not get art and find art galleries to be a terrible chore to even walk through. But other people Love that stuff.  I like history, others find it boring.

Like many others we travel a decent amount (a few times a year) and in the last 6-8 years have spent time in NY city, Boston, Philly, Miami, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Chicago, and other places.  Toronto and NY city I just don't get either.  We went there (a few times) we tried.  Its not that I just didn't love them.....I actually disliked much of what we did in those 2 places despite their 'culture'.  Boston and Philly on the other hand are my 2 favorite cities, nothing else is even close. My point is we all have what we like and don't like. 

Buffalo may not have the 'type' of culture someone likes...or it may not have 'highly ranked' or 'highly visited' cultural sites, but that doesn't me it doesn't have them, or that the ones here aren't just as good or even better (for some people) than ones that are on the top of the tripadvisor rankings simply because they are 'bigger' or 'more expensive' in big cities.

Edited June 18 by mjd1001

[matter2003]

25 minutes ago, Weave said:

You’ve got to stop living in fear of change and let the generations following you do their thing.  

I'm a senior software engineer...change is a way of life for me and is constant and never ending. Work ethic is not open to change tho. It's why I will never have to worry about losing my job and they will cry when I retire. I accomplish more in an hour than most of the younger generation accomplish in a day. How do I know? I work with many of them. What they consider someone with a strong work ethic in their generation, I would consider lazy in mine.

Edited June 18 by matter2003

[Pimlach]

On 6/16/2024 at 7:54 PM, Big Guava said:

Well, it's not quite as affordable as it once once. My house has close to tripled in value since I bought it in late 2005...not sure how that compares to the rest of the country, I am sure some places have done well more than that, but it's nothing to sneeze at either.

There is a reason Zillow ranked us the hottest housing market of 2024 and it isn't because of the "gloom and doom" people want to believe in that hasn't been true for the last decade or so here even tho they desperately want to hold onto it.

Buffalo housing is still “affordable “ compared to most medium to large US cities.  The entire country has seen housing price increases.   Supply, demand, interest rates, taxes, social factors, the cost to build new, are all in play here. 

[matter2003]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Buffalo housing is still “affordable “ compared to most medium to large US cities.  The entire country has seen housing price increases.   Supply, demand, interest rates, taxes, social factors, the cost to build new, are all in play here. 

The cost to build new is ridiculous...I know someone that just built a new house and it was nothing spectacular, being about 1800 square feet and 4 BR, 2.5 bath and it cost almost 500K just for the house(luckily they already owned the land it was built on). Don't get me wrong...it's a nice house but for 500K it's still crazy...

If you had to also buy the land you are looking at well over 500K and close to 550-600K probably, and that is for WNY...can't imagine what it would be elsewhere.

Edited June 18 by matter2003

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Lacking in culture?  Are you insane? Buffalo has more culture than many of the bigger cities in this country where they tried to "create" it instead of actually having it happen organically like it did here since the time the city was founded. Did you know people literally come from all over the world to see Buffalo's architecture?  In architectural circles it is considered a "must see" location.

We are also the festival capital of the US and have some of the largest festivals in the country. People come from all over the US to the Taste of Buffalo that draws north of 600K people and is the largest 2 day food festival in the country with only the week long Taste of Chicago drawing more people overall, the Allentown Arts festival is one of the oldest in the country, our Dyngus Day celebration is the largest in the entire world. The Erie County Fair is the 2nd largest county fair in the US, with only the Los Angeles County fair in California being bigger.

You want to talk about culture?  This was the richest city per capita in the entire US in 1900. There are plenty of "cultural" items left over from that time period here that didn't need to be artificially created like they have in many other places.  Unlike many places where they demolished their old historic buildings to build new modern cookie cutter buildings that all look the same, Buffalo has largely restored and saved it's historic sites. There are more and more old places undergoing renovations every year now. Culture isn't how modern and "cool" you can make a place, it's the history and the preservation of that history that creates it's culture and Buffalo does that as well as any other place in this country.

One of the biggest boosters of Buffalo architecture is Douglas Jemal, an out-of-town developer. He has done a lot of restoration projects in DC, Jersey and NYC. Over the past ten years or so he has gotten involved in a number of projects in Buffalo and western NY. There isn't anyone in the country who praises the rich history of its architecture more than he does. And there isn't anyone in the country or local area who has successfully taken on as many projects as he has. The Statler is now one of his current major projects. 

[matter2003]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

One of the biggest boosters of Buffalo architecture is Douglas Jemal, an out-of-town developer. He has done a lot of restoration projects in DC, Jersey and NYC. Over the past ten years or so he has gotten involved in a number of projects in Buffalo and western NY. There isn't anyone in the country who praises the rich history of its architecture more than he does. And there isn't anyone in the country or local area who has successfully taken on as many projects as he has. The Statler is now one of his current major projects. 

He also refurbished Seneca One Tower which sat vacant for many years until M&T decided to turn that into their Buffalo Tech hub and it has drawn numerous other companies to put their tech hubs there as well. Did an outstanding job, that place is super cool...also now features some apartments there as well.

 

Developers, including Jemal, have said recently that their projects have been slowed down significantly because they’ve gotten more expensive to complete and more difficult to finance.

But Jemal said that’s not a reason to stop, either. His Elmwood-Bidwell redevelopment project is ongoing. His Burns Building project will be starting, and he’s now seeking city approval for a new project to convert a former school in Black Rock into apartments.

“It’s not a time for the fetal position. It’s a time to keep going,” he said. “I came here, and fell in love with this city and this community, with a job to do, and I’m going to do my job. Yes, we have a lot of projects going on, but I will get them done.”

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/business/development/douglas-jemal-buffalo-news-complex-purchase/article_9d592f32-e6df-11ee-bf1d-9bfd474acc6c.html

 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/money/business/business-first/buffalo-business-first-douglas-jemal-main-street-money-wny/71-f9cc1c79-a49e-4df5-a6d3-67afdec64df0

Edited June 18 by matter2003

[JohnC]

Just now, matter2003 said:

He also refurbished Seneca One Tower which sat vacant for many years until M&T decided to turn that into their Buffalo Tech hub and it has drawn numerous other companies to put their tech hubs there as well. Did an outstanding job, that place is super cool...

He's also in the process of developing the Statler. And as you indicate a number of other projects. He does his homework (due diligence) before taking on a project. When he starts a project, they get done. The development world is going through tough challenges with the cost of financing relatively high. This outside developer is a local gem. 

[matter2003]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

He's also in the process of developing the Statler. And as you indicate a number of other projects. He does his homework (due diligence) before taking on a project. When he starts a project, they get done. The development world is going through tough challenges with the cost of financing relatively high. This outside developer is a local gem. 

He also just bought the old Buffalo News complex and owns the Atrium building that HSBC used to be in...he is basically creating an entire district down there, and talks about his plans for it in the article I linked above...

[Weave]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

I'm a senior software engineer...change is a way of life for me and is constant and never ending. Work ethic is not open to change tho. It's why I will never have to worry about losing my job and they will cry when I retire. I accomplish more in an hour than most of the younger generation accomplish in a day. How do I know? I work with many of them. What they consider someone with a strong work ethic in their generation, I would consider lazy in mine.

I simply don’t agree.  I am about 5 years from retirement myself.  There is nothing magical or different about our generation compared to the ones following us.  We were maligned by the generations before us, and we are carrying on the tradition, unfortunately.

I don’t see the younger workers today doing anything we didn’t do.  The technology at their hands, and the ability to communicate is all that tha has really changed.  They’ll grow, learn, adapt, and rise up just like we did.

[JoeSchmoe]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well Montreal is French culture and it stands apart. It's basically more European. No comparison. 

Buffalo is what it is, I get that. I grew up in Hamilton and it's the same. Disdain for Toronto as a result and no pretentiousness, but that doesn't mean it has culture. If you are lauding tailgating and chicken wings as "culture" I really don't know what to say to you except, enjoy. 

I won't thumb my nose at tailgating or chicken wings. It falls squarely in the bullet circled below. They grew this organically. They didn't import their culture from Asia as seems to be what we do here in Canada these days.

But if you want to get into the intellectual stuff, Buffalo has that in spades too which some of the posters have already shown.

EDIT- Besides how many people actually frequent museums or art galleries. It seems more of a bragging point than something people actually use. 

Edited June 18 by JoeSchmoe

[PromoTheRobot]

14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think in many ways it probably is comparable to Edmonton. About the same size and winter sucks (they have more cold, you have more snow and I would guess wind chill and that lake induced dampness that makes it feel colder than it is). There are bad areas and run down parts but also nice areas and some high end burbs. Both cities a little lacking in culture and entertainment compared to some places. 

In no way am I shitting on Buffalo, just saying "affordability" is a double edged sword. Understandable as a settle for this could be worse kind of choice if you can't afford the better one, but in no way does it make it desirable. 

It's all about that your looking for. Toronto is 90 minutes away if you need a shot of the big city life. But if you like living in a place where major traffic jams are rare, where you can get pretty much anywhere within 20 minutes, lots of nature options for fun, plenty of great restaurants, and you're not too broken up that the Taylor Swift tour is bypassing your town, Buffalo could be a perfect place.

Edited June 18 by PromoTheRobot

[matter2003]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well Montreal is French culture and it stands apart. It's basically more European. No comparison. 

Buffalo is what it is, I get that. I grew up in Hamilton and it's the same. Disdain for Toronto as a result and no pretentiousness, but that doesn't mean it has culture. If you are lauding tailgating and chicken wings as "culture" I really don't know what to say to you except, enjoy. 

And here I thought the world famous French Canadian arrogance only pertained to Canada...I see it knows no borders now.  

Funny how Poutine and Maple Syrup are universally celebrated there tho...

I am not sure why you are still part of Canada honestly, because both sides desperately want to rid themselves of the other.

Edited June 18 by matter2003

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

It's all about that your looking for. Toronto is 90 minutes away if you need a shot of the big city life. But if you like living in a place where major traffic jams are rare, where you can get pretty much anywhere within 20 minutes, lots of nature options for fun, plenty of great restaurants, and you're not too broken up that the Taylor Swift tour is bypassing your town, Buffalo could be a perfect place.

A lot of Canadians drive to Buffalo and fly out of our airport because the flights are significantly cheaper. As you point out, if you want to experience the benefits (entertainment etc.) of a Big City it is a positive to have a city such as Toronto within a reasonable distance. In essence, each location feeding off one another. The best of both worlds. 

[matter2003]

44 minutes ago, Weave said:

I simply don’t agree.  I am about 5 years from retirement myself.  There is nothing magical or different about our generation compared to the ones following us.  We were maligned by the generations before us, and we are carrying on the tradition, unfortunately.

I don’t see the younger workers today doing anything we didn’t do.  The technology at their hands, and the ability to communicate is all that tha has really changed.  They’ll grow, learn, adapt, and rise up just like we did.

The difference is by and in large we were taught that if you want something in life you work hard and don't expect it handed to you and didn't get participation trophies when we lost, learning that losing is part of life and that you accept it, are gracious about it and work hard to come back better next time. Case in point, I was a paperboy starting at age 12. How many kids these days actually work while in high school? Not very many.

This generation expects to be treated the same on Day 1 as the employee who has spent 10 years at a company and put in blood, sweat and tears to see it succeed. They are simply delusional and it's precisely because they have been handed everything in life and for the most part never had to work for it. When you expect things without having earned it, it's a problem.

Not sure who you work with, but I have worked with at least 100 younger employees during my tenure at various places and 95% of this is true for them. The other 5% actually had a work ethic and understood how the real world works.  

Last time I checked nobody our age was posting tik-tok videos literally in tears because they are 3 months into their first real job and can't handle the "stress" of having to work 40 hour weeks and having "no free time to do what they want" and having Mommy and Daddy calling in because they are "too stressed" to work today and have to take a mental health day.  Give me a fvcking break.  This generation is the softest, most mentally fragile generation in the history of the human race. The Pillsbury Doughboy and the Michelin Man have less softness than they do.

Edited June 18 by matter2003

[Weave]

8 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

The difference is by and in large we were taught that if you want something in life you work hard and don't expect it handed to you and didn't get participation trophies when we lost, learning that losing is part of life and that you accept it, are gracious about it and work hard to come back better next time. Case in point, I was a paperboy starting at age 12. How many kids these days actually work while in high school? Not very many.

This generation expects to be treated the same on Day 1 as the employee who has spent 10 years at a company and put in blood, sweat and tears to see it succeed. They are simply delusional and it's precisely because they have been handed everything in life and for the most part never had to work for it. When you expect things without having earned it, it's a problem.

Not sure who you work with, but I have worked with at least 100 younger employees during my tenure at various places and 95% of this is true for them. The other 5% actually had a work ethic and understood how the real world works.  

Last time I checked nobody our age was posting tik-tok videos literally in tears because they are 3 months into their first real job and can't handle the "stress" of having to work 40 hour weeks and having "no free time to do what they want" and having Mommy and Daddy calling in because they are "too stressed" to work today and have to take a mental health day.  Give me a fvcking break.  This generation is the softest, most mentally fragile generation in the history of the human race. The Pillsbury Doughboy and the Michelin Man have less softness than they do.

You are pitchforking the generation you raised.  You realize that, right?

Ive spent a good chunk of my career managing people and projects, including hiring.  I’ve hired from all age groups.  Do younger folks have different values?  To some extent.  Are they lazy, entitled snowflakes that can’t handle work, stress, and emotional hardship?  Get over yourself.  Like I said, this is the generation you raised.  If you don’t like what you see, it is because it is a reflection.

[matter2003]

8 minutes ago, Weave said:

You are pitchforking the generation you raised.  You realize that, right?

Ive spent a good chunk of my career managing people and projects, including hiring.  I’ve hired from all age groups.  Do younger folks have different values?  To some extent.  Are they lazy, entitled snowflakes that can’t handle work, stress, and emotional hardship?  Get over yourself.  Like I said, this is the generation you raised.  If you don’t like what you see, it is because it is a reflection.

I didn't raise them...my kids work their ass off and if they want something they have to earn it. They damn sure didn't get any participation trophies and I never let them win at games when I played when they were a kid either...mainly to instill the lesson that you don't always win in life and you have to learn how to lose. There were a lot of tears and lessons taught during those years about that.

These hands off parents who want to be their kids best friends instead of their parents and are afraid to actually parent them because they don't want their kids to be "mad at them" are the ones that need to be talked to about that, not me.  There have been plenty of times my kids have hated me and probably more so my wife I am sure over the years, but we were more worried about teaching them life lessons during those years and making sure they would be ready for adulthood than being their best friend.

I can confidently say we did our job as parents and taught them what they need to succeed in life. Now they have to choose to use those lessons when they start their journey, we can't force them to. But that is a far cry from never being taught those lessons in the first place like is the case with so many and having to learn it all on the fly and making it up as they go.

Edited June 18 by matter2003

[Weave]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

I didn't raise them...my kids work their ass off and if they want something they have to earn it. They damn sure didn't get any participation trophies and I never let them win at games when I played when they were a kid either...mainly to instill the lesson that you don't always win in life and you have to learn how to lose. There were a lot of tears and lessons taught during those years about that.

These hands off parents who want to be their kids best friends instead of their parents and are afraid to actually parent them because they don't want their kids to be "mad at them" are the ones that need to be talked to about that, not me.  There have been plenty of times my kids have hated me and probably more so my wife I am sure over the years, but we were more worried about teaching them life lessons during those years and making sure they would be ready for adulthood than being their best friend.

Ahhhhh…… your kids are different from the other 95%.  
 

😂

[matter2003]

9 minutes ago, Weave said:

Ahhhhh…… your kids are different from the other 95%.  
 

😂

Yeah, probably because I am different from the other 95%. Case in point, how many 49 year olds do you know that look like an NFL linebacker and have a full six pack?

Of abs...not a 6 pack of beer sitting in their fridge so they can drink it. 

Probably not many. If I had to guess, it would probably be well under 5% actually.

Probably not many 49 year olds that have 25 year old women checking them out at the beach while their husband who looks like a beached whale laying next to them is oblivious, either. Sometimes I almost think I am going to have to call 911 from someone having a broken neck the way their head snaps around.

Probably not the right guy to be talking about being part of the 95%.  I'm not.

Edited June 18 by matter2003

[Weave]

7 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Yeah, probably because I am different from the other 95%. Case in point, how many 49 year olds do you know that look like an NFL linebacker and have a full six pack? Of abs...not a 6 pack of beer sitting in their fridge so they can drink it.  Probably not many. If I had to guess, it would probably be well under 5% actually.

Meh.  My son started working on a farm when he was 12.  Continued to do so for a bit after college ended and career started.  The doors he had open because it said “farm worker” on his resume….

He’s a good kid.  No, a great kid.  You know else he is?  He is representative of the bell curve of any population.  He’s not special in any meaningful way other than how he is special to his family.  The difference is I haven’t convinced myself that what I did, and what he’s done is anything more than typical.  

Edited June 18 by Weave

[...]

20 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Yeah, probably because I am different from the other 95%. Case in point, how many 49 year olds do you know that look like an NFL linebacker and have a full six pack?

Of abs...not a 6 pack of beer sitting in their fridge so they can drink it. 

Probably not many. If I had to guess, it would probably be well under 5% actually.

Probably not many 49 year olds that have 25 year old women checking them out at the beach while their husband who looks like a beached whale laying next to them is oblivious, either. Sometimes I almost think I am going to have to call 911 from someone having a broken neck the way their head snaps around.

Probably not the right guy to be talking about being part of the 95%.  I'm not.

This explains so many things.

[Weave]

10 minutes ago, ... said:

This explains so many things.

Movie star looks.  CEO ambition level.  Super parent.  Top performing kids. We are in the midst of greatness.

[matter2003]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

Movie star looks.  CEO ambition level.  Super parent.  Top performing kids. We are in the midst of greatness.

Never said movie star looks, just said I have a great physique that I worked my ass off for.

 

14 minutes ago, ... said:

This explains so many things.

yeah...so does the people in their mid 30s and early 40s with beer guts that make them look 11 months pregnant...

[PASabreFan]

39 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Yeah, probably because I am different from the other 95%. Case in point, how many 49 year olds do you know that look like an NFL linebacker and have a full six pack?

Of abs...not a 6 pack of beer sitting in their fridge so they can drink it. 

Probably not many. If I had to guess, it would probably be well under 5% actually.

Probably not many 49 year olds that have 25 year old women checking them out at the beach while their husband who looks like a beached whale laying next to them is oblivious, either. Sometimes I almost think I am going to have to call 911 from someone having a broken neck te way their head snaps around.

Probably not the right guy to be talking about being part of the 95%.  I'm not.

I've been here since I sucked at SDS' teat and this might be the GPOAT.