Sabres promote Jerry Forton to Assistant GM

[That Aud Smell]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Trust me, that's just a sample.  And I included that many because I think it's interesting to hear what he's said about the talent drafted over the past few years.  Takes a while to get through it but I thought it was interesting.

yeah - i was joking above. i actually appreciate the effort.

i was surprised to see how much jerry forton sabres content there is. shows to go, i guess, that, even for a fairly serious fan of the team (me), there's gobs of content out there that can go unnoticed, unconsumed.

a corollary to this: i subscribe to nearly 20 substacks of writers whose work i have enjoyed. i almost never read any of what they publish.

there's just so much stuff out there.

[Flashsabre]

7 hours ago, Doohickie said:

For those of you who were unaware of where that remark came from, this is from the 2022 draft, when asked basically what it was like to work with Kevyn (after having worked with JBott previously).  He clearly thinks Kevyn is a better GM as far as listening to his own people.  Cued up to the right spot:

 

To add context, this was during the the beginning of the Kim Pegula medical situation and a lot of the emotion was based around how Adams had guided the ship while everyone was trying to deal with the situation.

[That Aud Smell]

15 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Jeepers. This guy's almost as lightly credentialed as his boss, Kevyn Adams.

To review: Forton was an assistant or associate coach at Niagara University for 12 years. Then he was an assistant at UMass Lowell for 2 years and an assistant Harvard for 2 years. Then he had a cup of coffee as a Sabres assistant in 2013-2014.

From there, he began his time as a Sabres scout.

On further reflection, the guy was well qualified to serve as an NHL scout with a focus on NCAA prospects (which is what he did initially for the team).

It also occurs to me: Wasn't Botterill reportedly averse to drafting or signing NCAA players? That might explain why Forton so strongly prefers working for Adams, who himself was an NCAA player-prospect at one time.

2 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

To add context, this was during the the beginning of the Kim Pegula medical situation and a lot of the emotion was based around how Adams had guided the ship while everyone was trying to deal with the situation.

/Stick tap/

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said:

To review: Forton was an assistant or associate coach at Niagara University for 12 years. Then he was an assistant at UMass Lowell for 2 years and an assistant Harvard for 2 years. Then he had a cup of coffee as a Sabres assistant in 2013-2014.

From there, he began his time as a Sabres scout.

On further reflection, the guy was well qualified to serve as an NHL scout with a focus on NCAA prospects (which is what he did initially for the team).

It also occurs to me: Wasn't Botterill reportedly averse to drafting or signing NCAA players? That might explain why Forton so strongly prefers working for Adams, who himself was an NCAA player-prospect at one time.

/Stick tap/

Botterill (who played college hockey at Michigan and IIRC won 3 gold medals with the Canadian WJC team (he defilnitely played for Canada 3 times, not positive about the 3 golds, but pretty sure)) had a huge aversion to selecting CHL players from any of the 3 junior leagues unless it was an absolute no brainer in the 1st round.

He loved him some Euros and NCAAers.

He's the guy that let Hagel get away.

[Doohickie]

42 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

To add context, this was during the the beginning of the Kim Pegula medical situation and a lot of the emotion was based around how Adams had guided the ship while everyone was trying to deal with the situation.

True, important context.  But this also illustrates the contrast in management style between JBott and Kevyn.  If I looked around some more I think I could find some quotes from Jerry and others that explicitly say JBott was more dictatorial and wouldn't take advice.

Edited June 12 by Doohickie

[SJSabres Fan]

15 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I had to look it up.  Karmanos is Associate GM. Forton is Assistant GM. I hope this is no impact to Jason and his role.  

Assistant TO the manager, Dwight Shrute

[Brawndo]

11 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Isn't this a bit of a weak connection? I.E:

Forton's sisters husband works with Terry, OR Forton's wife's brother works with Terry.

He's kind of a legit local hockey guy, and it looks like he's paid similar dues that a non-nepotism hire would pay. Unless he's Head GM'ing, I'm not going to worry about it.

What has he done to deserve a promotion over Sam Ventura?   Ventura and Karmanos have both interviewed for GM positions around the league since coming to Buffalo. Forton has not.  There has been mentions of how well the scouting department has performed over the past couple seasons, look at the level of talent that was drafted before the 2021 Draft and after when Ventura was hired. The analytics department priority has been to improve the prospect pipeline, something they have done very well.  Quinn and Peterka were excellent picks in 2020, but Jeremiah Crowe was the Director of Scouting for that draft, not Forton. 
 

Luca Del Bel Belluz was the agreed upon pick by the analytic and scouting staff for 41st overall in 2022, Forton was the one who convinced Adams to take Topias Leinonen instead. He may not even be offered an ELC. Forton may have pounded the table for Charlie McAvoy, but last time I checked he was a Bruin. 

This is the NHL paying your dues while being mediocre is not grounds for a promotion. 
 

@GASabresIUFAN Yes Karmanos was a nepotism hire, but he has actually had success at every stop. He was directly responsible for building the Carolina and Pittsburgh Analytics Departments, and was Rutherford’s First Choice for the Vancouver GM Job. 
 

@PerreaultForever If the team fails again, I believe the NHL will step in and either appoint a senior advisor or tell Pegula the moves to make. They did this with Toronto and Shanhan as well as Ottawa with their most recent moves 

[GASabresIUFAN]

@Brawndo I’ll have to take your word for it on Forton.  All I know is that our drafting is better over the last 7 years and as a fan that’s all I care about.  If it starts to stink again, we’ll have our villain.  

Despite the better drafting, I still believe Adams is a terrible GM.  I’m not surprised at all that he would promote the wrong people. At some point soon the good people, like Ventura and Karmanos, will leave and the Sabres will the worse for it.  

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Botterill (who played college hockey at Michigan and IIRC won 3 gold medals with the Canadian WJC team (he defilnitely played for Canada 3 times, not positive about the 3 golds, but pretty sure)) had a huge aversion to selecting CHL players from any of the 3 junior leagues unless it was an absolute no brainer in the 1st round.

He loved him some Euros and NCAAers.

He's the guy that let Hagel get away.

Gah! I knew there was some aversion that he got dragged for.

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@Brawndo I’ll have to take your word for it on Forton.  All I know is that our drafting is better over the last 7 years and as a fan that’s all I care about.  If it starts to stink again, we’ll have our villain.  

Despite the better drafting, I still believe Adams is a terrible GM.  I’m not surprised at all that he would promote the wrong people. At some point soon the good people, like Ventura and Karmanos, will leave and the Sabres will the worse for it.  

7 years? The 2017 draft is meh but I suppose getting UPL and Mitts out of it is nice. I think UPL is more luck than anything but still credit where credit is due. 2018 is Samuelsson at #32 and that's it. Dahlin doesn't count because a monkey with a clipboard throwing bananas at a wall could have gotten that right so, meh fine. 2019... well we got Cozens, so that's it. 2020 is Quinn and JJP which is a good draft but I think Adams is the driving force there, maybe not. 2021 might get Power, Rosen and Novikov but there is a lot of misses there. Covid year and the analytics department was just being built. 2022... Topias Leinonen is such a bad mark on that board it really takes away from all the good like Savoie, Östlund, Kulich, Komarov. Solid draft. 2023 gives us Benson, Wahlberg, and Strbak whom I like. 

I see a shift in drafting starting once Adams ends up in charge and accelerating in 2022. Man in 2022 if Luca Del Belluz had been the pick, it would have been a really really excellent draft. He put up 31pts in 58games for his rookie AHL season. Which should also remind us that Rosen with 50pts in 67 and Kulich with 45 in 57 also are really solid players with an NHL chance. 

I am not convinced that a guy who has been in Buffalo since 2014 is responsible for the drafting from 2017 to present and there are a few years before Karmanos/Ventura that look really questionable. My point is the same as yours though, if people like Ventura and Karmanos leave, this team will be worse and we should run for the hills. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

7 years? The 2017 draft is meh but I suppose getting UPL and Mitts out of it is nice. I think UPL is more luck than anything but still credit where credit is due. 2018 is Samuelsson at #32 and that's it. Dahlin doesn't count because a monkey with a clipboard throwing bananas at a wall could have gotten that right so, meh fine. 2019... well we got Cozens, so that's it. 2020 is Quinn and JJP which is a good draft but I think Adams is the driving force there, maybe not. 2021 might get Power, Rosen and Novikov but there is a lot of misses there. Covid year and the analytics department was just being built. 2022... Topias Leinonen is such a bad mark on that board it really takes away from all the good like Savoie, Östlund, Kulich, Komarov. Solid draft. 2023 gives us Benson, Wahlberg, and Strbak whom I like. 

We all know you loath Jbot.  We get it, but can't take credit away for Dahlin and then give credit for Power.  That's not how this works.  Jbot made 18 picks and found 7 NHLers including 2 2nd line centers in the NHL, a starting goalie, a No. 1 D and a 4/5 D.  Ryan Johnson will also be a 4-6 D in the NHL as soon as this season and Bryson is a depth NHL D picked up in the 4th round.  There is even a chance that Rousek finally makes the NHL this season full time.  That pretty good drafting.  Hate on Jbot all you want, but give credit where credit it due.

[Doohickie]

31 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I see a shift in drafting starting once Adams ends up in charge and accelerating in 2022.

Forton talks about that in the "crying" video, in terms of stating that Kevyn is good about listening to his people and involving everyone in the decisions.  The implication was that JBott wasn't so hot at that stuff.  So yeah, you can drag Forton for the drafting under JBott, but I think much of that falls to JBott and his above-mentioned aversion to CHL picks.

 

25 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We all know you loath Jbot.  We get it, but can't take credit away for Dahlin and then give credit for Power.  That's not how this works.  Jbot made 18 picks and found 7 NHLers including 2 2nd line centers in the NHL, a starting goalie, a No. 1 D and a 4/5 D.  Ryan Johnson will also be a 4-6 D in the NHL as soon as this season and Bryson is a depth NHL D picked up in the 4th round.  There is even a chance that Rousek finally makes the NHL this season full time.  That pretty good drafting.  Hate on Jbot all you want, but give credit where credit it due.

How does that compare to league average?  (Honest question, not implying anything good or bad.)

[PASabreFan]

18 hours ago, Brawndo said:

His Brother in Law is Terry’s Business Partner and he has been with the team for a decade. Total nepotism hire 

It's not nepotism.

We've seen nepotism at the Sabres under TP.

And Smell's robe just fluttered. Awake!

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Forton talks about that in the "crying" video, in terms of stating that Kevyn is good about listening to his people and involving everyone in the decisions.  The implication was that JBott wasn't so hot at that stuff.  So yeah, you can drag Forton for the drafting under JBott, but I think much of that falls to JBott and his above-mentioned aversion to CHL picks.

 

How does that compare to league average?  (Honest question, not implying anything good or bad.)

Hitting on 1/3+ of your picks is extremely good drafting.  For example, in the 2017 draft so far, only 59 (out of 217 or 27%) players have reached 100 games played.  Mitts is 7th in games played, Joki 8th, Bryson 30th and UPL 59th at 100 games so far.  

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

What has he done to deserve a promotion over Sam Ventura?   Ventura and Karmanos have both interviewed for GM positions around the league since coming to Buffalo. Forton has not.  There has been mentions of how well the scouting department has performed over the past couple seasons, look at the level of talent that was drafted before the 2021 Draft and after when Ventura was hired. The analytics department priority has been to improve the prospect pipeline, something they have done very well.  Quinn and Peterka were excellent picks in 2020, but Jeremiah Crowe was the Director of Scouting for that draft, not Forton. 
 

Luca Del Bel Belluz was the agreed upon pick by the analytic and scouting staff for 41st overall in 2022, Forton was the one who convinced Adams to take Topias Leinonen instead. He may not even be offered an ELC. Forton may have pounded the table for Charlie McAvoy, but last time I checked he was a Bruin. 

This is the NHL paying your dues while being mediocre is not grounds for a promotion. 
 

@GASabresIUFAN Yes Karmanos was a nepotism hire, but he has actually had success at every stop. He was directly responsible for building the Carolina and Pittsburgh Analytics Departments, and was Rutherford’s First Choice for the Vancouver GM Job. 
 

@PerreaultForever If the team fails again, I believe the NHL will step in and either appoint a senior advisor or tell Pegula the moves to make. They did this with Toronto and Shanhan as well as Ottawa with their most recent moves 

What did he do to get this promotion?

It all starts with WTF made him qualified to actually coach the Sabres a decade ago when he first joined the org?

 

[That Aud Smell]

27 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It's not nepotism.

We've seen nepotism at the Sabres under TP.

And Smell's robe just fluttered. Awake!

30 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

We've seen nepotism at the Sabres under TP.

Compiling a list of the Pegula hirings with the Sabres would be a truly discouraging exercise.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Forton talks about that in the "crying" video, in terms of stating that Kevyn is good about listening to his people and involving everyone in the decisions.  The implication was that JBott wasn't so hot at that stuff.  So yeah, you can drag Forton for the drafting under JBott, but I think much of that falls to JBott and his above-mentioned aversion to CHL picks.

 

How does that compare to league average?  (Honest question, not implying anything good or bad.)

It is right about league average because of how high we picked. 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

It is right about league average because of how high we picked. 

After the 2nd round I’d be genuinely surprised if where you pick matters statistically.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

After the 2nd round I’d be genuinely surprised if where you pick matters statistically.

There's a curve but yes. 

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, Brawndo said:

@PerreaultForever If the team fails again, I believe the NHL will step in and either appoint a senior advisor or tell Pegula the moves to make. They did this with Toronto and Shanhan as well as Ottawa with their most recent moves 

Really? I mean maybe, but I doubt it. 

I'm not sure any experienced GM, one with clout, would take a job in Buffalo anyway. The story on Waddell is he left Carolina because he was tired or owner meddling. We are the most meddled with team in the league. 

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Really? I mean maybe, but I doubt it. 

I'm not sure any experienced GM, one with clout, would take a job in Buffalo anyway. The story on Waddell is he left Carolina because he was tired or owner meddling. We are the most meddled with team in the league. 

Are we the most meddled with team in the league?  You have any sources on that?

Anyone who thinks these owners just sit back and allow their GMs to do what they want is delusional. They all want to know what is happening, they all want to know what decisions are being made and most have a say in the decisions.

There is a great Doug MaClean interview out there about when he was GM of Columbus. He had the team all set up to compete for the upcoming season when the owner called him and said his other business lost some money so he needs to cut $5-6 million from the team cap by the weekend. He had to dump a couple good players. Was he a terrible GM for doing that? No he was following orders from his boss.

Edited June 12 by Flashsabre

[Night Train]

Unless he can score on the PP, this means little to 98 % of us. 

[LGR4GM]

I don't think Forton has been bad at drafting, I'm just not convinced he's been good. Dallas is good at drafting, Buffalo went from terrible under Murray to maybe league average? Granted we can't even judge the 2022 of 2023 draft well, yet. 

[JoeSchmoe]

Good on all the posters here trying to find something to talk about in the offseason. Still a other 4 months or so to go of no Sabres, and we need better things to talk about. 🫣

That said... I'm starting a new OT thread based on a similar topic some colleagues had today about lakes here in Ontario. See you over there...

EDIT- link to thread 

 

Edited June 13 by JoeSchmoe

[PerreaultForever]

When you pick as high as we do and as often as we do with as many extra picks as we often have one would think we'd do better after our first rounders who are obviously highly rated and not that hard to choose. So far Peterka is the only one from the Adams era that has made the team. While it is too soon to tell I think saying he's drafted well is pretty silly.