dudacek Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 3 hours ago, Weave said: I am going to add, this is another guy who is learning on the job. He’s learning to be an AHL head coach, just like most of the rest of the organization continues to be guys promoted into roles for the first time. Lindy Ruff is an exception to a pattern. This is a continuation of a pattern. If this guy has been an AHL head coach in the past, I’ll change my opinion. What are the parameters to the pattern? The Sabres under Pegula? Ruff is about as opposite to the pattern as you can get. Granato fits the pattern Krueger does not fit the pattern Bylsma does not fit the pattern Nolan does not fit the pattern Adams fits the pattern Botterill fits the pattern Murray fits the pattern Karmanos does not fit the pattern Sexton does not fit the pattern Patrick does not fit the pattern Ventura does not fit the pattern Leone fits the pattern Appert fits the pattern Bales does not fit the pattern Wilford does not fit the pattern Ellis fits the pattern… Is this actually a pattern? Quote
Weave Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 1 hour ago, dudacek said: What are the parameters to the pattern? The Sabres under Pegula? Ruff is about as opposite to the pattern as you can get. Granato fits the pattern Krueger does not fit the pattern Bylsma does not fit the pattern Nolan does not fit the pattern Adams fits the pattern Botterill fits the pattern Murray fits the pattern Karmanos does not fit the pattern Sexton does not fit the pattern Patrick does not fit the pattern Ventura does not fit the pattern Leone fits the pattern Appert fits the pattern Bales does not fit the pattern Wilford does not fit the pattern Ellis fits the pattern… Is this actually a pattern? Now lets add timelines. Coaches, going backwards…. Granato fits Housley fits Kreuger - minimal experience and out of the game at the time - push Bylsma - you got me GMs going backwards Adams fits Botteril fits Murray fits Roc HCs Leone fits Appert fits I have no idea after that. the rest are assistants, so they’ve managed to put some experienced assistants under their learning the job GMs and HCs. So the trend certainly appears to be less experienced as the Pegula reign carries on. 1 Quote
dudacek Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 47 minutes ago, Weave said: Now lets add timelines. Coaches, going backwards…. Granato fits Housley fits Kreuger - minimal experience and out of the game at the time - push Bylsma - you got me GMs going backwards Adams fits Botteril fits Murray fits Roc HCs Leone fits Appert fits I have no idea after that. the rest are assistants, so they’ve managed to put some experienced assistants under their learning the job GMs and HCs. So the trend certainly appears to be less experienced as the Pegula reign carries on. Forgot Housley. But in general, I think the only area that shows a clear pattern is when it comes to GMs. Which seems to make sense if you consider how that one is the Pegula hire. Quote
Cranky old man Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 Green Bay Gamblers head coach Mike Leone takes job with Buffalo Sabres AHL affiliate GREEN BAY, Wis. (WFRV) – Green Bay Gamblers head coach Mike Leone is taking a head coaching job with the Buffalo Sabres AHL affiliate, the Rochester Americans. Buffalo Sabres general manager Kevyn Adams and Rochester Americans general manager Jason Karmanos announced on Thursday that Leone will leave the United States Hockey League (USHL) for the American Hockey League (AHL). “I am pleased to welcome Mike Leone as the head coach of the Rochester Americans,” said Adams. “The Amerks head coach plays a crucial role in the overall success and growth of our organization, and after a rigorous interview process, it became clear that Mike was the right individual for the job. His development mindset and professional versatility over the course of his career were just some of the many qualities that stood out as we searched for an individual to continue focusing on combining both winning and development in Rochester.” Leone amassed a 66-41-10-7 record in his two seasons with Green Bay, leading the Gamblers to back-to-back 30-plus win seasons as well as consecutive playoff appearances for the first time in over a decade. Leone piloted Green Bay’s resurgence through the 2022-23 campaign, helping the team finish with the most wins (32) and points (71) since 2016-17. The following year saw the Gamblers capture two more wins and earn a third-place finish in the USHL’’’s Eastern Conference standings, culminating with a return trip to the postseason for the second straight year. “I’m extremely grateful and humbled to be a part of the Buffalo Sabres organization as the next head coach of the Rochester Americans,” said Leone. “I want to thank Kevyn Adams and Jason Karmanos for giving me the opportunity to lead the organization and believing in me. I look forward to meeting everyone in the organization and helping our prospects continue to grow and develop on and off the ice.” A native of Dearborn Heights, Michigan, Leone has extensive coaching experience at the international level, most recently serving as an assistant coach for the U.S. Junior Select team in 2023. He served in the same capacity with the 2022 U.S. Under-18 Men’s Select Team at the Hlinka Gretzky Cup and at the 2021 Under-17 Five Nations Tournament, where he helped guide the U.S. to the championship. Additionally, Leone was an assistant coach at the 2021 IIHF Under-18 Men’s World Championship and was behind the bench for Team USA’s 2019 Under-17 Four Nations championship-winning team and for the Under-17 World Hockey Challenge, where the U.S. placed second. One final ride: Griffin Summers battles adversity to reach final season with Blue Ribbons Officials from the Green Bay Gamblers said they’re excited for Leone and wish him and his family the best of luck. Associate head coach Pat McCadden and assistant general manager/director of scouting Kirk Luedeke will lead the Gamblers’ main try-out camp, which will be held from Saturday, June 8, to Thursday, June 13, at the Resch Center. After camp is completed, the Gamblers will begin the process of filling the vacant head coach/general manager position. 1 1 Quote
postseasonblues Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 All this over hiring a developmental coach for their developmental farm team. 1 1 Quote
matter2003 Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 (edited) On 6/6/2024 at 3:31 PM, Second Line Center said: Just pretend he is the Godfather and has the "Cor" in front of the last name... He made KA an offer he couldn't refuse... Edited June 7 by matter2003 2 Quote
French Collection Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 1 hour ago, matter2003 said: Just pretend he is the Godfather and has the "Cor" in front of the last name... He made KA an offer he couldn't refuse... I thought he was the guy who directed all of the Clint Eastwood westerns. 2 Quote
kas23 Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 6 hours ago, postseasonblues said: All this over hiring a developmental coach for their developmental farm team. Yeah, who would’ve thought we would done such a thing? If this is how we are reacting to Leone, just imagine if we hired Paetsch or Prospal. Quote
PerreaultForever Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 I don't know if there's a "pattern" for all of them but lack of experience is a recurrent (Ruff is the exception as that's a return to what was before). We don't hire ex-NHL coaches in Rochester who are looking for a reboot to get back to the NHL. We are fixated on development guys. If there is a "pattern" it might be in style more than anything else. We are fixated on an idea that so far has not worked. Quote
dudacek Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 26 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: I don't know if there's a "pattern" for all of them but lack of experience is a recurrent (Ruff is the exception as that's a return to what was before). We don't hire ex-NHL coaches in Rochester who are looking for a reboot to get back to the NHL. We are fixated on development guys. If there is a "pattern" it might be in style more than anything else. We are fixated on an idea that so far has not worked. Not sure what you mean The Rochester model hasn’t done its job of developing future Sabres? Quote
SwampD Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 I like it. It's not a sabres alum. 18 minutes ago, dudacek said: Not sure what you mean The Rochester model hasn’t done its job of developing future Sabres? I'm guessing, the Sabres aren't good. Quote
PerreaultForever Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 3 hours ago, dudacek said: Not sure what you mean The Rochester model hasn’t done its job of developing future Sabres? Style-wise. We aren't teaching them to check and play hard defensively. We are set on the idea of wide open run and gun hockey which you see a lot of in the league these guys come from. I'd rather we had a guy like Peca in Rochester teaching these speedy Euros how to grind. In a way I guess you could say it's a one sided development model that I had hoped would end with Granato but alas, no. Quote
LGR4GM Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 (edited) Man... saying Liiga and SHL is run and gun is something you could do... i don't think it would be correct, those leagues are very much structured and cycle based. Idk about the German pros. That might be more rush based. Czech league is well known for its hard nosed players. Russian Jr's certainly have a run and gun element. I think in the Swedish and Finnish leagues, there's more room so they learn to play with more time but that's nothing to concerning. 9 hours ago, SwampD said: I like it. It's not a sabres alum. I'm guessing, the Sabres aren't good. But Quinn, JJP, Samuelsson are and that's about the only players I can think of who spent significant time in Rochester. Edited June 8 by LGR4GM Quote
PerreaultForever Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 John Hayden hat trick sends Coachella (coached by Disco Dan) to the Calder Cup. Just had to put that somewhere after reading it and chuckling. Quote
Stoner Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 Individual development over team development. The fans have bought into it. The young players love it. Learn to play with no pressure to win, then hopefully write your ticket out. 2 1 Quote
Pimlach Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 (edited) On 6/7/2024 at 1:32 PM, postseasonblues said: All this over hiring a developmental coach for their developmental farm team. Yeah, imagine that, the Amerks fans here actually wanting to win games. What nerve of them. 🙄 My personal opinion is that this is a good hire. The AHL is the right place to give bright coaching prospects a shot. As long as Leone can coach a system that works with what Ruff uses there is not a problem to me. Edited June 10 by Pimlach 2 Quote
Pimlach Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 42 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: Individual development over team development. The fans have bought into it. The young players love it. Learn to play with no pressure to win, then hopefully write your ticket out. Unfortunately this has been true for way too long. This has gone deep into Ooooovertime. Quote
Pimlach Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 On 6/8/2024 at 2:18 AM, PerreaultForever said: Style-wise. We aren't teaching them to check and play hard defensively. We are set on the idea of wide open run and gun hockey which you see a lot of in the league these guys come from. I'd rather we had a guy like Peca in Rochester teaching these speedy Euros how to grind. In a way I guess you could say it's a one sided development model that I had hoped would end with Granato but alas, no. Well, we had Peca in Rochester working for Appert. He was down there for the year that Quinn/JJP were down there. Unfortunately, Laviolette liked Peca enough to give him a shot as an NHL assistant, something that Granato did not do. 1 Quote
Stoner Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Pimlach said: Unfortunately this has been true for way too long. This has gone deep into Ooooovertime. It almost seems like it's baked into the business model. When Cliff Benson and Terry looked across the street soon after Terry bought the team, what did they really envison? Harbor Center. Developmental hockey at various levels. Scouting combines. The draft. It's certainly a way of keeping costs down. I pondered something the other day. Maybe it could be its own thread. Is it crazy to think the worst owner in NHL history could go into the HHOF ... as a builder? Edited June 10 by PASabreFan Quote
Pimlach Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 1 minute ago, PASabreFan said: It almost seems like it's baked into the business model. When Cliff Benson and Terry looked across the street soon after Terry bought the team, what did they really envison? Harbor Center. Developmental hockey at various levels. Scouting combines. The draft. It's certainly a way of keeping costs down. I pondered something the other day. Maybe it could be its own thread. Is it crazy to think the worst owner in NHL history could go into the HHOF ... as a builder? I love the Harbor Center and the entire concept, and especially the business it brings to downtown. The spin-off in jobs and the outside money coming in has been great for Buffalo. The Harbor Center does help keep Buffalo on the hockey map. If anything, it can be expanded. I seriously doubt that he planned to make Buffalo a place to develop players and purposely neglect the NHL team, even though it looks like that at times. I grew up in the city. Downtown was pretty sad in the 60's and up until recent years. Harbor Center and Canal side are Pegula's work and downtown is cleaner and safer than ever before in my lifetime. So, while Pegula is the worst owner in NHL history by record, he has had some very positive impacts to the city. His record with the Bills is also quite good and the tiny market of Buffalo is thriving in the NFL. 1 Quote
Taro T Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 33 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: It almost seems like it's baked into the business model. When Cliff Benson and Terry looked across the street soon after Terry bought the team, what did they really envison? Harbor Center. Developmental hockey at various levels. Scouting combines. The draft. It's certainly a way of keeping costs down. I pondered something the other day. Maybe it could be its own thread. Is it crazy to think the worst owner in NHL history could go into the HHOF ... as a builder? It's possible. In that regard, there's a lot of parallels between Terry Pegula and Ralph Wilson. Ralph was instrumental in starting the AFL (not Bud Adams or Lamar Hunt level of instrumental in starting it, but he was part of that original Fool's Club and really helped it stay alive and successful early on) and in keeping the Raiders afloat. He also helped keep the Cheatriots in the Boston area when Billy Sullivan was having money issues. He saw the big picture league-wise. But he also was instrumental in causing the football men that really understood the game and were hugely instrumental in the Bills early glory years (Saban, Knox, Pollian) to all leave the organization. Ralph lucked into great football minds, but ended up driving them away. So far Pegula has built up the Penn State hockey program from scratch completely altering the college hockey landscape (and not for the better IMHO), he built Harbor Center and Canal Side. He also lucked into McDermott & Beane (the latter who is truly one of the absolute best in the game) and Chugger and Tavares, but there has been absolutely no indication at all that he'll chase any of them away. He'll eventually luck into the GM & Coach for the Sabres (hoping he already has, we'll see if he did), but unlike Ralph really doubt that he'll chase them out of town. If the Sabres get back to relevant and Terry lives a long time, could see his other accomplishments in the hockey world being enough to get him into the HHoF. But he came to the game so late, expect he needs to have a very long life to get to the point of being part of the "old guard" that the builders always get chosen from. Quote
MattPie Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 (edited) On 6/6/2024 at 8:04 PM, dudacek said: What are the parameters to the pattern? The Sabres under Pegula? Ruff is about as opposite to the pattern as you can get. Granato fits the pattern Krueger does not fit the pattern Bylsma does not fit the pattern Nolan does not fit the pattern Adams fits the pattern Botterill fits the pattern Murray fits the pattern Karmanos does not fit the pattern Sexton does not fit the pattern Patrick does not fit the pattern Ventura does not fit the pattern Leone fits the pattern Appert fits the pattern Bales does not fit the pattern Wilford does not fit the pattern Ellis fits the pattern… Is this actually a pattern? Ruff literally worked for Pegula as NHL head coach before, he's the ultimate "we know this guy already". 🙂 Nolan was also a Sabres guy, although that's a bit more tenuous. Karmanos, Sexton, Ventura, and Bylsma: Pegula, IIRC, has some Pens connections (his empire is largely based in Western PA). Can I amend the pattern to include people that worked for the Pens? There's a strong current of raiding the Pens' org for people, which like the USNTLP is "someone we know". (I didn't check on Patrick because I don't know who that is, lol. unless we're talking James Patrick) Edited June 10 by MattPie Quote
Taro T Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 3 minutes ago, MattPie said: Ruff literally worked for Pegula as NHL head coach before, he's the ultimate "we know this guy already". 🙂 Nolan was also a Sabres guy, although that's a bit more tenuous. Karmanos, Sexton, Ventura, and Bylsma: Pegula, IIRC, has some Pens connections (his empire is largely based in Western PA). Can I amend the pattern to include people that worked for the Pens? There's a strong current of raiding the Pens' org for people. (I didn't check on Patrick because I don't know who that is, lol. unless we're talking James Patrick) Craig Patrick. From the Patrick family (essentially NHL royalty, his grand dad was Lester Patrick (yes, THAT Lester Patrick) and his father was Lynn Patrick). Played in the NHL for a long time, was one of the few GOOD (not great, but good) California Golden Seals that didn't get immediately poached like some of the others such as Reggie Leach. Had a long career but always seemed to end up on bad teams. (Even though he was a Patrick, he also was an American, might've had something to do with the good teams staying away.) Was the Assistant Coach to Herb Brooks on THAT Olympic Team. GM of the Pens when they won back to back Stanley Cups. Was an advisor to the Sabres soon after Pegula bought them. Quote
ExWNYer Posted June 10 Report Posted June 10 On 6/7/2024 at 2:32 PM, postseasonblues said: All this over hiring a developmental coach for their developmental farm team. Much ado about nothing, IMO. 😇 😉 Quote
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