3C - What is best course going forward?

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Jeannot is not worth anywhere near that, he has had 8 goals and 10 assists in 75 games with Tampa.

Not worth the price, but he'd be invaluable as an addition to the Sabres soooooooooooooo, an overpay would still make sense if you could get him.

I do not think, however, that Tampa will trade him, as the GM overpaid for him and GMs rarely like to do things that make them look like they made a mistake. He'd need to get something that at least looks like what he paid (which was tons). 

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Byram - Dahlin 

Power - Tanev

Samuelsson - Clifton

Johnson - Chatfield

 

I like Cirelli and getting him would be huge. If we could get Cirelli AND Jeannot together, I'd give up whatever picks and prospects that takes. 

To the D above however, this is a pipe dream. I agree that Tanev and Chatfield are the type of defenders we could use, but I will be shocked if Adams makes any major D moves beyond signing Jokiharju and maybe keeping Bryson as #7. Like it or not (and I don't) our D is what it is right now. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Jeannot has a M-NTC.  I'm sure we are on the list.  Also he's had 32 points total over the last 2 seasons.  Anything over a 4th rd pick is a mistake.  We are not in the business of bailing out TB's mistakes.  We make enough of our own.  

Edited May 29 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Jeannot has a M-NTC.  I'm sure we are on the list.  Also he's had 32 points total over the last 2 seasons.  Anything over a 4th rd pick is a mistake.  We are not in the business of bailing out TB's mistakes.  We make enough of our own.  

NTC doesn't kick in until July 1.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

NTC doesn't kick in until July 1.

It doesn’t really change anything.  We paid a 2nd for 2+ years of a 25-30 pt player in Greenway on a fair contract at 3 mill per season.  Why would we pay anything close to that for an 18 pt player on a 2.6 mill contract for a single season?   

Edited May 29 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Jeannot has a M-NTC.  I'm sure we are on the list.  Also he's had 32 points total over the last 2 seasons.  Anything over a 4th rd pick is a mistake.  We are not in the business of bailing out TB's mistakes.  We make enough of our own.  

And he's only here 1 year if he sucks. We're also adding him because he's physical and the prize would be Cirelli. 

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It doesn’t really change anything.  We paid a 2nd for 2+ years of a 25-30 pt player in Greenway.  Why would be we pay anything close to that for an 18 pt player on a 2.6 mill contract for a single season?   

So we can get Cirelli. You're worried about winning a trade, I'm worried about getting better. In this case, these may not line up. 

[LGR4GM]

It does not matter what we trade. Bryson and Jokiharju have to move. Rosen  Kulich, and 11 are assets teams would want. Pick whatever combination you're good with of that to get Cirelli and Jeannot. The trade isn't what freaking matters. Being better and making the playoffs matters more to me than figuring out what the exact combinations of some mythical trade are. 

Besides, Adams ain't doing ***** anyways. He's gonna run back Krebs and add 2 over the hill ufas at 1 mill a piece. 

[dudacek]

As much as I’d love to add Cirelli, I can’t imagine a world where the Lightning would give him up.

They just traded for McDonough, they aren’t blowing things up.

 

[Carmel Corn]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

My guess is Jokiharju will be looking for about 4mil AAV

Bryson would be a UFA is his qualifier isn't made and he'd be free to come back to Buffalo or go anywhere he wants.

Essentially I feel we give up too much while simultaneously Tampa gains two unneeded assets. For instance, let's say Jokiharju equals a 2nd but only a 3rd or 4th to Tampa. In that case we are better off getting the 2nd from elsewhere.

Joker getting extended at $4 million AAV is about as pleasant as swallowing my own vomit.   Maybe we can trade him to the CBJ and get Alex Nylander back (ducking my head now) 😁

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

And he's only here 1 year if he sucks. We're also adding him because he's physical and the prize would be Cirelli. 

So we can get Cirelli. You're worried about winning a trade, I'm worried about getting better. In this case, these may not line up. 

You are assuming Cirelli is available and KA is interested.  I’m not sure either one is true. 

As much as I’d like Cirelli on the Sabres, KA’s history is to sign or acquire players with 1-3 years of term on their contracts.  The 7 years left on his deal is probably a non-starter for Adams.  Add that Kulich, Savoie, Östlund and Wahlberg are on the way within the next 1-3 years, he is going to find a bridge center until one of his guys is ready.  Bennett, Karlsson, Roy, Domi and Roslovic seem like more likely targets.  

[dudacek]

The concept of Jeannot intrigues the hell out of me.

It’s all about the price there. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You are assuming Cirelli is available and KA is interested.  I’m not sure either one is true. 

As much as I’d like Cirelli on the Sabres, KA’s history is to sign or acquire players with 1-3 years of term on their contracts.  The 7 years left on his deal is probably a non-starter for Adams.  Add that Kulich, Savoie, Östlund and Wahlberg are on the way within the next 1-3 years, he is going to find a bridge center until one of his guys is ready.  Bennett, Karlsson, Roy, Domi and Roslovic seem like more likely targets.  

I've literally and repeatedly said Adams isn't doing anything and won't do anything of substance. I explored if he could with the assets at hand and he can. 

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The concept of Jeannot intrigues the hell out of me.

It’s all about the price there. 

Not coupled to Cirelli, probably a 3rd or 4th round pick does it. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I've literally and repeatedly said Adams isn't doing anything and won't do anything of substance. I explored if he could with the assets at hand and he can. 

Not coupled to Cirelli, probably a 3rd or 4th round pick does it. 

I agree with you, except he will acquire a 3C of some sort.

As to Jeannot, I’d rather have Teddy Blueger.  Let him C the 4th line and move Krebs to the wing (or trade him for an asset).

Edited May 29 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

47 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I've literally and repeatedly said Adams isn't doing anything and won't do anything of substance. I explored if he could with the assets at hand and he can. 

I’m assuming by this you mean something equivalent to replacing Girgensons, Okposo Jost and Olofsson without upgrading any of them is the best we get?

Why do you think this?

[Doohickie]

48 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As to Jeannot, I’d rather have Teddy Blueger.

Me too.  The goal meme writes itself.

WOW BLUEGER!

[LGR4GM]

52 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree with you, except he will acquire a 3C of some sort.

As to Jeannot, I’d rather have Teddy Blueger.  Let him C the 4th line and move Krebs to the wing (or trade him for an asset).

They like Krebs, they are good give him a good couple months at 3c before doing anything. 

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I’m assuming by this you mean something equivalent to replacing Girgensons, Okposo Jost and Olofsson without upgrading any of them is the best we get?

Why do you think this?

Adams has basically said it. He's looking for guys to round out the bottom 6.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It doesn’t really change anything.  We paid a 2nd for 2+ years of a 25-30 pt player in Greenway on a fair contract at 3 mill per season.  Why would we pay anything close to that for an 18 pt player on a 2.6 mill contract for a single season?   

Tampa thought they were getting another Hagel. That’s not what Jeannot turned out to be. $2.65 million for a 4th line pugilist who can play a bit is steep but it is a bit of what we need, isn’t it?  And there is always a chance he gets back some of the scoring touch he showed with the Preds.   I don’t think it matters though. Until it happens, I don’t think we will outbid other teams for an asset. There will be Western Conference teams who will pay as much or more. If traded, Tampa will send him west. 

[Doohickie]

On 5/28/2024 at 11:58 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Other external acquired in a trade (includes RFAs) - such as Mitts :), Boqvist,

So, if they managed to offer sheet Mitts for low $6 million range, they would have effectively traded a 1st and a 3rd for Byram. 

Edited May 29 by Doohickie

[dudacek]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They like Krebs, they are good give him a good couple months at 3c before doing anything. 

Adams has basically said it. He's looking for guys to round out the bottom 6.

Ah, I took that to mean he was going to upgrade the bottom 6.

Guess we will see what it means. I agree the chance of a Cirelli/Tanev level of player is unlikely.

[Huckleberry]

I picked Cirelli but only because If its not him we will sign Stamkos and Cozens is our 3C.     

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

I picked Cirelli but only because If its not him we will sign Stamkos and Cozens is our 3C.     

I picked Karlsson despite his NTC because his term and skill seem like a perfect fit. 

That said, I'm intrigue by trying to get Bennett even for a year.  I like the idea of a proven hard nosed center who actually seems to be getting better with age and experience.  He'll be playing for a contract extension (or big FA contract) and would be a good fit for how Ruff wants to play.  If it works, both sides could agree on the extension, and if it doesn't, he'll bring back a good asset at the deadline for the replacement GM.  His one year term, should limit the cost to acquire him as well.  I'm not sure I'd give up the 11th overall pick for him, but maybe Rosen and a draft pick would get the job done.

[Taro T]

12 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I would have fired him by now, but I also would not have had him operate with such heavy restrictions either. 

I think the Covid restrictions cost us Reinhart, Montour and Ullmark.  I think Risto needed to go, and Eichel wanted out with his injury the key to accommodate that.  

Of course, had Reinhart and Ullmark been signed, Eichel very well doesn't suggest Adams punt him to try another reboot.   This team has been victim to timing for a very long time.  (Pretty much since ownership changed.)

Hated to see Montour go.

[Thorner]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:23 PM, PerreaultForever said:

I agree with all this except the term. I think we do need a veteran 3C but I think long term is fine. I want stability on this team, not a puppy mill. There's no reason, should any of these kids step up that they can't be moved to a wing (or Cozens, or even Tage). You can never have too many centers. The main thing for me is to add a solid 2 way dependable guy like the vets you mention. 

I would manage the 3C position as if the prospects are a non-entity. If they break down the door, good problem 

[Archie Lee]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

In an ideal world, Adams does 3 things. He brings in a middle 6 forward like Cirelli to create competition and in case someone falls off or gets injured. He brings in 2 brand new bottom 6 guys with character that aren't under 25, I am talking about 28yr old grizzled veterans who have won in the playoffs a bit. Finally number 3, he moves on from Jokiharju and Bryson and backfills those spots with Ryan Johnson and a RHD that can play alongside Power, a veteran, such as Tanev. 

This leaves us with 22 players, $86,871,070 in caphits and $828,930 in capspace, so we could add a guy like Savoie if there is an injury (which there will be). 

 

Not saying the article is accurate, and maybe you just have Chatfield as a stand-in for 4th pairing right shot D, but the Athletic big board UFA rankings has Chatfield projected at 5 x $4.1 million. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I would manage the 3C position as if the prospects are a non-entity. If they break down the door, good problem 

Agreed. I think this is the way you should always operate (unless there's something exceptional in your prospect pool and you are 100% sure). You already know how I feel about Adams "don't block the kids" philosophy. Too many guys pressing for one job is not a problem. That's what trades are for. 

[B-U-F-F-A-L-O]

On 5/28/2024 at 9:58 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Long-term the answer to our 3C is pretty easy.  Eventually, one of Savoie, Kulich, Östlund or Wahlberg will win the job and we’ll go from there, but I don’t believe any are ready now.  Savoie and Kulich are the closest, but I don’t think the Sabres can afford to take the risk to try one of them next season. Savoie is the one forward in the system who could force his way onto the roster in camp next season.

Krebs is the other internal candidate. I believe he should be traded, but given he’ll be cheap to retain and has been effective in a 4th line role, my guess is he’ll be re-signed. I worry he is this year’s Asplund.

Ruling out the internal candidates, what should we be looking for in terms of skill set, cost (cap), cost to acquire, and term? 

As to skill set, ideally the player should have a strong 2 way game.  I like someone with good PK ability and who can win a draw.  45-50 points would also be nice.

From a skill set standpoint, getting Cirelli would be ideal.  Only issues are the 7 years left on his deal and that a NTC kicks in after next season.  His 6.25 cap is workable this season and could be worked around long-term if the kids come in wins jobs.  I think other strong UFA candidates, like Stephenson and Monahan, will want 4-5 year deals.

Term:  Does Adams go a for core type player and commit to them long-term blocking his prospects in the process or does he try to find a player for a year or 2 to hold the job until a kid is ready.  I’d love to see him go for it and get a Cirelli, but I suspect he’ll remain cautious and try to find someone who will sign for 3 years or less or acquire someone with limited term remaining.  LV has a couple of other centers, Karlsson and Roy, who may be available.  Both have 3 years left, Karlsson at 5.9 and Roy at 3.  I’d take either, but Karlsson has an NTC and LV, if they let their UFAs walk, don’t have much of a cap crunch right now.  I’d love to have Karlsson, especially because he can play up the lineup as well.

Roslovic is an interesting UFA.  Not great in the FO dot, but he is a guy that I think still has untapped potential and who should be a 45 pt player again in the right circumstances. I also think he could take a shorter deal in right circumstances to get another bite at the UFA apple in 2-3 years. Max Domi is another interesting idea.

If we could get Roy, Cirelli, or Karlsson, how much would it cost to acquire one of them?  

All I know is that I’ll be very disappointed if the 3C is in-hose even though I believe that it will indeed be in-house. IMHO, we need two new centers, both a 3C and 4C. Both good at face-offs. Both veteran leaders with hutzpah. Both not slow. Of course, the 3C has to have more skill than the 4C but both should be able to score and make plays.

IMHO, we also need two 4th line wingers. Similar to Girgs but with way more toughness/gritiness. Players that won’t hesitate to right a wrong. Players that are demons on the forecheck and backcheck. Players who will instill toughness into other players….

I think we desperately need all four of these guys. So much so that I think it would be great to acquire a third new winger to be ready to spell the starters…. I cannot emphasize enough how badly we need players like this….