Don Waddell hired by Columbus

[Brawndo]

16 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I read an article that said Tulsky basically ran things but didn’t have the people skills to deal with the GM personalities around the league. Waddell was the guy to talk to the other GMs. I would imagine that setup will continue and an old school figurehead will be named Carolina GM and fill the same role.

Friedman mentioned Chuck Fletcher for this role on 32 Thoughts Podcast yesterday 

[PerreaultForever]

On 5/27/2024 at 12:48 PM, Brawndo said:

A restructured front office should look like 

POHO-Adams/Ruff or Ruff as Senior Advisor

GM Jason Karmanos 

Associate GM Sam Ventura 

If successful. 

If they fail to make the playoffs this year fire Adams and rearrange that.

Rick Dudley - Senior Advisor

Lindy Ruff - POHO/GM

Jason Karmanos - GM or Associate GM

and Sam Ventura - Assistant GM

with a new coaching hire unless they want to give Appert a one year shot first. 

[shrader]

12 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Waddell will be allowed to sit at the Columbus Draft Table in Vegas as he had little input in the Carolina Draft process. 

They actually make this kind of distinction?  I don't care what level of input anyone may have had with other teams, whoever he's an employee of, he should be there with that team.  So is this just some technicality where contracts don't actually start until July 1?

[Mango]

On 5/24/2024 at 4:57 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Pegula puts a guy above Adams or between himself and Adams if you prefer to look at it that way, I just don't see it. That goes against everything we've seen so far and would signal a major shift in terms of Pegula's involvement.

It's something most of us have advocated for for years but it doesn't fit with how Pegula does things. Unless that's changed. 

I thought this person could be Ruff. But after seeing us bring in exactly ZERO people from the outside to fill the staff I’m fairly confident that this will never ever happen under Terry. 

[Mango]

12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

If successful. 

If they fail to make the playoffs this year fire Adams and rearrange that.

Rick Dudley - Senior Advisor

Lindy Ruff - POHO/GM

Jason Karmanos - GM or Associate GM

and Sam Ventura - Assistant GM

with a new coaching hire unless they want to give Appert a one year shot first. 

This.

At the moment I don’t see any reason to promote Kevyn Adams. And frankly, even if this team gets to 100+ points next year, promoting Adams to POHO would be a tough pill for me to swallow. 
 

For me he needs some sustained success. Because right now he’s only sustained bad to mediocre. 

Edited May 29 by Mango

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

This.

At the moment I don’t see any reason to promote Kevyn Adams. And frankly, even if this team gets to 100+ points next year, promoting Adams to POHO would be a tough pill for me to swallow. 
 

For me he needs some sustained success. Because right now he’s only sustained bad to mediocre. 

He acts as a buffer between Hockey Ops and Terry Pegula. 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

He acts as a buffer between Hockey Ops and Terry Pegula. 

Right, but the team doesn't just need a buffer, that person needs to be capable of running a real life NHL front office as well. 

As of today Adams is both the buffer and the hockey ops guy and I absolutely do not believe that Pegula is holding Adams back, I think they are both aligned. If others think highly enough of Adams to give him a go under a POHO, I won't kick and scream, but as of now he has not done anywhere near enough to prove he deserves a promotion. 

I will flip it. If Adams were let go tomorrow, would he get another GM job? Not scout, not player personnel role, not assistant GM, but full on, head of the org, General Manager. I don't think he does and I don't think it is close. Promoting that person to POHO makes no sense no matter who the owner is. 

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

Right, but the team doesn't just need a buffer, that person needs to be capable of running a real life NHL front office as well. 

As of today Adams is both the buffer and the hockey ops guy and I absolutely do not believe that Pegula is holding Adams back, I think they are both aligned. If others think highly enough of Adams to give him a go under a POHO, I won't kick and scream, but as of now he has not done anywhere near enough to prove he deserves a promotion. 

I will flip it. If Adams were let go tomorrow, would he get another GM job? Not scout, not player personnel role, not assistant GM, but full on, head of the org, General Manager. I don't think he does and I don't think it is close. Promoting that person to POHO makes no sense no matter who the owner is. 

Have said it before, but believe that if the team is unsuccessful the next 2 years then Adams is gone, but if they are then he bumps up to PoHO with probably Karmanos becoming the GM (maybe Ventura gets it) and Ruff sliding into an advisory role to Kevyn as soon as he's ready to be done coaching.

If things go kerplewy once again this year (or even if they don't this year but do spectacularly next year) then Adams is gone and Ruff becomes PoHO with probably Karmanos or Ventura becoming the GM but if Lindy has somebody from outside in mind then he brings in a GM.

Should things go well, Appert has the inside track to be Lindy's successor.  If they don't, would guess the HC becomes Peca because, well, because.

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Have said it before, but believe that if the team is unsuccessful the next 2 years then Adams is gone, but if they are then he bumps up to PoHO with probably Karmanos becoming the GM (maybe Ventura gets it) and Ruff sliding into an advisory role to Kevyn as soon as he's ready to be done coaching.

If things go kerplewy once again this year (or even if they don't this year but do spectacularly next year) then Adams is gone and Ruff becomes PoHO with probably Karmanos or Ventura becoming the GM but if Lindy has somebody from outside in mind then he brings in a GM.

Should things go well, Appert has the inside track to be Lindy's successor.  If they don't, would guess the HC becomes Peca because, well, because.

Solid and fair take and seems probable. 

That said, I think it’s best for the org long term that Lindy be the man at the top and not Adams.

I am just not sold on the guy. I have a lot more questions about the vision for this team now than I did 18 months ago. I don’t get it. 

I am rooting for the Sabres success sooner rather than later. I think a 96 point season, first round loss, and moving Adams to POHO has the potential to be terrible long term. 

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Have said it before, but believe that if the team is unsuccessful the next 2 years then Adams is gone, but if they are then he bumps up to PoHO with probably Karmanos becoming the GM (maybe Ventura gets it) and Ruff sliding into an advisory role to Kevyn as soon as he's ready to be done coaching.

If things go kerplewy once again this year (or even if they don't this year but do spectacularly next year) then Adams is gone and Ruff becomes PoHO with probably Karmanos or Ventura becoming the GM but if Lindy has somebody from outside in mind then he brings in a GM.

Should things go well, Appert has the inside track to be Lindy's successor.  If they don't, would guess the HC becomes Peca because, well, because.

Should only be 1 year 

Realize you mention that possibility in the next paragraph 

[Thorner]

32 minutes ago, Mango said:

Solid and fair take and seems probable. 

That said, I think it’s best for the org long term that Lindy be the man at the top and not Adams.

I am just not sold on the guy. I have a lot more questions about the vision for this team now than I did 18 months ago. I don’t get it. 

I am rooting for the Sabres success sooner rather than later. I think a 96 point season, first round loss, and moving Adams to POHO has the potential to be terrible long term. 

Making the playoffs and Adams moved out of the GM role seems reasonable to me..

[Brawndo]

On 5/29/2024 at 4:05 PM, Mango said:

Right, but the team doesn't just need a buffer, that person needs to be capable of running a real life NHL front office as well. 

As of today Adams is both the buffer and the hockey ops guy and I absolutely do not believe that Pegula is holding Adams back, I think they are both aligned. If others think highly enough of Adams to give him a go under a POHO, I won't kick and scream, but as of now he has not done anywhere near enough to prove he deserves a promotion. 

I will flip it. If Adams were let go tomorrow, would he get another GM job? Not scout, not player personnel role, not assistant GM, but full on, head of the org, General Manager. I don't think he does and I don't think it is close. Promoting that person to POHO makes no sense no matter who the owner is. 

As much as Adams has not done to push the team into the playoffs, there is an argument to be made that being that buffer maybe a more important job. 
Without that buffer decisions such as taking Alex Nylander over Charlie McAvoy and trading Ryan O’Reilly after he loves his love for the game are made(rather then trying to work towards a resolution) are made.  Jerry Forton would have a much larger say in the final decision on players and  choices such Topias Leinonen would be the norm and not the exception. 
 

Pegula is absolutely holding Adams back. Although he did agree to the 3 Es when he initially took over as GM, there was an understanding that this would cease this past season.  Does anyone think that GMKA really wanted to not make any deals that required salary retention or cap dumps? How about the idea that the Bryam Trade would have been completed a lot sooner with Colorado’s First Round Pick coming to Buffalo had Adams been authorized to take Ryan Johansen as part of the deal. Also there is the matter of the team having only one official pro scout in Jeremiah Crowe. 
 

Pegula still has a reputation around the league and there was some hesitation by some of outside front office hires to join the organization without reassurance they would be able to do their jobs without much interference. 
 

As much as the team has fallen short of expectations, the one area the analytics department has been largely focused on has been the draft something that has demonstrated significant improvement.  Adams is making sure they space they need to operate. They have given input on some of the free agent signings namely Clifton and Johnson. They did give advice  about usage of both players which was promptly ignored by the coach. 
 

I would like to see a scenario where Karmanos and the analytics staff are ones making the final decisions on roster construction in addition to drafting. The reason why I have always mentioned promoting Adams to POHO was so not to lose Karmanos or Ventura. Adams does a good job of keeping Pegula out of a large majority of hockey ops decisions. If they would be free to operate without ownership interference if Adams was no longer with the organization I would not shed a single tear. 
 

I do believe there is reason for hope as the NHL has possibly turned its attention to organizations that have been performing subpar, now that the Coyotes are in Utah. There may have been a few friendly suggestions given to an organization we have a love/hate relationship with. Whether or not the advice is needed is another story.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

As much as Adams has not done to push the team into the playoffs, there is an argument to be made that being that buffer maybe a more important job. 
Without that buffer decisions such as taking Alex Nylander over Charlie McAvoy and trading Ryan O’Reilly after he loves his love for the game are made(rather then trying to work towards a resolution) are made.  Jerry Forton would have a much larger say in the final decision on players and  choices such Topias Leinonen would be the norm and not the exception. 
 

Pegula is absolutely holding Adams back. Although he did agree to the 3 Es when he initially took over as GM, there was an understanding that this would cease this past season.  Does anyone think that GMKA really wanted to not make any deals that required salary retention or cap dumps? How about the idea that the Bryam Trade would have been completed a lot sooner with Colorado’s First Round Pick coming to Buffalo had Adams been authorized to take Ryan Johansen as part of the deal. Also there is the matter of the team having only one official pro scout in Jeremiah Crowe. 
 

Pegula still has a reputation around the league and there was some hesitation by some of outside front office hires to join the organization without reassurance they would be able to do their jobs without much interference. 
 

As much as the team has fallen short of expectations, the one area the analytics department has been largely focused on has been the draft something that has demonstrated significant improvement.  Adams is making sure they space they need to operate. They have given input on some of the free agent signings namely Clifton and Johnson. They did give advice  about usage of both players which was promptly ignored by the coach. 
 

I would like to see a scenario where Karmanos and the analytics staff are ones making the final decisions on roster construction in addition to drafting. The reason why I have always mentioned promoting Adams to POHO was so not to lose Karmanos or Ventura. Adams does a good job of keeping Pegula out of a large majority of hockey ops decisions. If they would be free to operate without ownership interference if Adams was no longer with the organization I would not shed a single tear. 
 

I do believe there is reason for hope as the NHL has possibly turned its attention to organizations that have been performing subpar, now that the Coyotes are in Utah. There may have been a few friendly suggestions given to an organization we have a love/hate relationship with. Whether or not the advice is needed is another story.

Jerry Forton has known Terry Pegula since well before he owned the Sabres. He is a family friend and has been for decades. Terry doesn’t hold Jerry back. He’s hired to be lock step. The dude was hired to be a yes man from day 1. 

A lot to pick apart here, but your take on Jerry Forton is so far off the mark from any inside information (EEE coming off the books this year?) there clearly isn’t any actual connection to the Pegulas.  
 

[dudacek]

51 minutes ago, Mango said:

Jerry Forton has known Terry Pegula since well before he owned the Sabres. He is a family friend and has been for decades. Terry doesn’t hold Jerry back. He’s hired to be lock step. The dude was hired to be a yes man from day 1. 

A lot to pick apart here, but your take on Jerry Forton is so far off the mark from any inside information (EEE coming off the books this year?) there clearly isn’t any actual connection to the Pegulas.  
 

@Brawndo can speak for himself, but I read that exactly opposite of the way you did.

I read it that it is Kevyn’s interference that holds Jerry back. If he wasn’t here, Jerry would have more power and influence than he does.

[LGR4GM]

The Leinonen pick is so alarming with what was left on the board. 

The Byram Joker pairing was so bad, I've never seen a shot chart that horrendous. 

This team needs to grow up and it starts in a front office that still makes dumb decisions. 

[Mango]

58 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The Leinonen pick is so alarming with what was left on the board. 

The Byram Joker pairing was so bad, I've never seen a shot chart that horrendous. 

This team needs to grow up and it starts in a front office that still makes dumb decisions. 

You might be right. I read/posted after getting out of a late night at work. 

[PASabreFan]

11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

As much as Adams has not done to push the team into the playoffs, there is an argument to be made that being that buffer maybe a more important job. 
Without that buffer decisions such as taking Alex Nylander over Charlie McAvoy and trading Ryan O’Reilly after he loves his love for the game are made(rather then trying to work towards a resolution) are made.  Jerry Forton would have a much larger say in the final decision on players and  choices such Topias Leinonen would be the norm and not the exception. 
 

Pegula is absolutely holding Adams back. Although he did agree to the 3 Es when he initially took over as GM, there was an understanding that this would cease this past season.  Does anyone think that GMKA really wanted to not make any deals that required salary retention or cap dumps? How about the idea that the Bryam Trade would have been completed a lot sooner with Colorado’s First Round Pick coming to Buffalo had Adams been authorized to take Ryan Johansen as part of the deal. Also there is the matter of the team having only one official pro scout in Jeremiah Crowe. 
 

Pegula still has a reputation around the league and there was some hesitation by some of outside front office hires to join the organization without reassurance they would be able to do their jobs without much interference. 
 

As much as the team has fallen short of expectations, the one area the analytics department has been largely focused on has been the draft something that has demonstrated significant improvement.  Adams is making sure they space they need to operate. They have given input on some of the free agent signings namely Clifton and Johnson. They did give advice  about usage of both players which was promptly ignored by the coach. 
 

I would like to see a scenario where Karmanos and the analytics staff are ones making the final decisions on roster construction in addition to drafting. The reason why I have always mentioned promoting Adams to POHO was so not to lose Karmanos or Ventura. Adams does a good job of keeping Pegula out of a large majority of hockey ops decisions. If they would be free to operate without ownership interference if Adams was no longer with the organization I would not shed a single tear. 
 

I do believe there is reason for hope as the NHL has possibly turned its attention to organizations that have been performing subpar, now that the Coyotes are in Utah. There may have been a few friendly suggestions given to an organization we have a love/hate relationship with. Whether or not the advice is needed is another story.

What has the league suggested that the Sabres do?

[Brawndo]

10 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

What has the league suggested that the Sabres do?

Make the playoffs 

20 hours ago, Mango said:

Jerry Forton has known Terry Pegula since well before he owned the Sabres. He is a family friend and has been for decades. Terry doesn’t hold Jerry back. He’s hired to be lock step. The dude was hired to be a yes man from day 1. 

A lot to pick apart here, but your take on Jerry Forton is so far off the mark from any inside information (EEE coming off the books this year?) there clearly isn’t any actual connection to the Pegulas.  
 

 

19 hours ago, dudacek said:

@Brawndo can speak for himself, but I read that exactly opposite of the way you did.

I read it that it is Kevyn’s interference that holds Jerry back. If he wasn’t here, Jerry would have more power and influence than he does.

Dudacek was spot on. This in no way was an endorsement Forton. I believe Mango has mentioned that Forton is on of Terry’s Business Partners BIL
 

The fact that Forton is the director of scouting and Nightengale is Asst Director is mind boggling. 

[Mango]

13 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Make the playoffs 

 

Dudacek was spot on. This in no way was an endorsement Forton. I believe Mango has mentioned that Forton is on of Terry’s Business Partners BIL
 

The fact that Forton is the director of scouting and Nightengale is Asst Director is mind boggling. 

Sorry, I was just getting out of a late night shift. My bad. 

[PASabreFan]

13 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Make the playoffs 

 

Dudacek was spot on. This in no way was an endorsement Forton. I believe Mango has mentioned that Forton is on of Terry’s Business Partners BIL
 

The fact that Forton is the director of scouting and Nightengale is Asst Director is mind boggling. 

So you are not at liberty to say? To protect your sources I suppose.

[nfreeman]

13 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

So you are not at liberty to say? To protect your sources I suppose.

What is the point of this post?  Did you just wake up on the wrong side of the bed and feel like insulting someone who adds a lot to this board and is always friendly and respectful?

[PASabreFan]

4 hours ago, nfreeman said:

What is the point of this post?  Did you just wake up on the wrong side of the bed and feel like insulting someone who adds a lot to this board and is always friendly and respectful?

What was the point of his sarcastic reply? He claimed the league has offered suggestions to the Sabres. I wanted to know what they were.

Also it's fair to wonder about sources. Brawndo makes blanket "I'm in the know" claims all the time.

[sabresparaavida]

On 5/29/2024 at 11:35 PM, Thorny said:

Should only be 1 year 

Realize you mention that possibility in the next paragraph 

I’d think it has to be playoffs or fired for Kevyn Adams at this point. There’s a total of 1 GM in the NHL with a longer tenure than KA who has not made the playoffs with his current team: Steve Yzerman. Yzerman had a history of winning GM of the year in 2015, and laid the foundation for back to back cup wins, by drafting, signing, or re-signing pretty much all of Tampa’s key players for those runs. Kevyn Adams doesn’t have that kind of history to have a longer grace period, and keeping him another year if they miss the playoffs this upcoming season would make the Sabres an even bigger joke of an organization.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, sabresparaavida said:

I’d think it has to be playoffs or fired for Kevyn Adams at this point. There’s a total of 1 GM in the NHL with a longer tenure than KA who has not made the playoffs with his current team: Steve Yzerman. Yzerman had a history of winning GM of the year in 2015, and laid the foundation for back to back cup wins, by drafting, signing, or re-signing pretty much all of Tampa’s key players for those runs. Kevyn Adams doesn’t have that kind of history to have a longer grace period, and keeping him another year if they miss the playoffs this upcoming season would make the Sabres an even bigger joke of an organization.

Agree, and not a coincidence the Red Wings always seem to be the team we want to compare ourselves to: it’s the only team where our relative comp doesn’t look as putrid 

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Agree, and not a coincidence the Red Wings always seem to be the team we want to compare ourselves to: it’s the only team where our relative comp doesn’t look as putrid 

I think Buffalo has more talent than Detroit. We'll see how that translates.